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2018 LX Engine into Limp Mode Home for the 4th time...NEW Problem :(

23K views 80 replies 14 participants last post by  badwithcomputer 
#1 ·
Girlfriend bought a Sportage AWD 2.4 brand new 20,000kms ago, all servicing done at the dealer, just had the recall done for the reprogramming of the knock sensor to detect engine failure... 5,000kms later... engine failure (i think)

Car is currently at the dealer for diagnosis, so far the service has been great. They gave her a 2011 forte5 as a loaner. At the back of my mind I hope it was just an overly sensitive programming in the monitor but the symptoms leading up to the failure point otherwise.

Driving along at highway speed (110kmh) engine revved to redline, came back down, throttle had no response, engine died and coasted to the side of the road with check engine light flashing. Left car for a few minutes, attempted to restart and nothing. (verbatim from girlfriend)

I'll keep you all updated!
 
#2 ·
.... At the back of my mind I hope it was just an overly sensitive programming in the monitor....
Actually that would be the worst of all the possible outcomes. Kia would be able to find nothing wrong and just hand the keys back to her. Then it would be just a question of how long until it goes into LHM again, x number of times.

But no concern about that possibility, because it certainly sounds like the engine in her vehicle is headed to the dumpster. And that's a place where every newly blown Theta will find plenty of company.
 
#3 ·
Doesn't sound like engine failure to me - more like a bad throttle position sensor or throttle actuator. Its safe for the engine to go to the redline as long as its not for the whole 500 laps. :) It can't go over the redline. Did anybody stop to wonder how come the engine was able to go to the redline with the car in gear and not accelerating? Somehow the trans went to neutral or something went wrong with the ECU/trans control. This is the kind of problem that possibly could be related to the software update.
 
#4 ·
.... Did anybody stop to wonder how come the engine was able to go to the redline with the car in gear and not accelerating? ....
The KSDS was designed to force limp mode when an early indication of engine knock is detected. But who knows what forcing a supposedly controlled limp mode turns into if there's a sudden catastrophic engine failure. The bottom line for me is that there was a flashing CEL, which doesn't get triggered from much other than the KSDS. That, along with the failure to restart, sure makes it sound like a blown engine to me. But this is speculation on my part, and I certainly could be wrong. If the OP follows up with the outcome, then we'll find out what actually happened to her vehicle.
 
#8 ·
.... engine died and coasted to the side of the road with check engine light flashing. Left car for a few minutes, attempted to restart and nothing. (verbatim from girlfriend ....
The above account from your GF does not match what Kia wrote under 'Customer Report'. From what they're saying, the vehicle was always able to run in limp mode, and never stalled out. Anyway, it doesn't matter now, and glad to read it's back on the road. Hopefully that was the last time that flashing CEL shows up.
 
#10 ·
Well it happened again! Same exact problem, highway cruising, flashing check engine light, stop car, turn off, turn back on, no movement at all. The "man" in me wants to disconnect the battery and then try it but we didn't buy a new fkcn car to have to be worrying about that nonsense. This time my girlfriend is stranded over an hour away. Guess who has to burn two hours of his day and $30 in fuel because of this fckn Kia? Can't wait for Monday.
 
#15 ·
That's a multiple choice answer. The first part is that your vehicle would definitely not have had the first limp mode and knock sensor harness replacement, if the update had not been done. However the other part of the answer is that the (presumed) engine failure was going to happen, irrespective of the update being done. The update was a monitor-only change, and did not cause the engine to fail.

Now if OTOH the engine actually didn't fail, then it would be yet another false positive. But I don't think that's the case, based on your description of the vehicle being dead.
 
#16 · (Edited)
The thing that worries us is we like to go on random road trips, sometimes as an over night trip. Our most recent one was 6hrs away where there was no cell service for an hour or two in either direction. I've never owned a car that's given me this uneasy feeling before and I owned an F150 with the 5.4 3v. Hopefully the issue can be solved with this service.
 
#17 ·
Word from the dealer is her particular year and model required a revision to the programming of the knock sensor after the initial campaign... This is what gets me.. "You wouldn't have known you needed it until the car stopped running" - Service manager. I'll post the work order this evening.

That's comforting, so the last trip we did could have left us stranded in the middle of nowhere, with no cell service or anyone around. Now I'm going to be into this issue for an entire days worth of driving and a tank of gas because Kia couldn't get their programming figured out.
 
#18 ·
Word from the dealer is her particular year and model required a revision to the programming of the knock sensor after the initial campaign... This is what gets me.. "You wouldn't have known you needed it until the car stopped running" - Service manager. I'll post the work order this evening. ...
That's the first time I've seen anything like what you wrote above (and I spend lots of time looking for this stuff). The whole limp mode thing is very well known, but 'stopped running' without there being a failed engine is brandy new (to me anyway). I'll be very interested to read the work order, and also anything else they might have to say to you about this incident.
 
#20 ·
We've got a new? or maybe not new issue? The car spends most of it's life in ECO (unless I'm driving) When cruising or accelerating moderately, the engine will rev briefly all the way to red line and then settle back down. I haven't witnessed it and asked the condition of the roads (maybe losing traction?) and if it really went all the way to redline or was just slipping (as they do a little first thing to warm up the trans) and she said it goes "all the way up". It's very similar to the original issue BEFORE it would shut down and start flashing the check engine light.

Something isn't right with this car, she doesn't drive hard so I don't believe she's actually accelerating all the way to redline and the fact that it happens while cruising is very odd. Almost as if the trans disengages or goes to neutral for a brief time. Also we've noticed the fuel mileage has increased considerably since the last "recall of the recall". Last years winter L/100 was about 9.5-10 and this winter it's 11.5-12. I understand there are a lot of factors at play but there's something f*cky (trailer park boys reference)
 
#22 ·
What happens if you never drive in ECO? ECO doesn't do practically anything -- it's really just a marketing gimmick and won't effect mileage at all. If this doesn't happen in NORMAL mode, then it is the ECU programming that is at fault. ECO tries to lug the engine and if there is any wheel slippage, it will automatically upshift and raise the rpm's. Some of us have tested ECO and found that it delivers no better mileage than NORMAL. I'm pretty sure it doesn't go "all of the way up", but it might go from 1200 rpm's to 4000 rpm's and that may sound like it does.
 
#23 ·
well I guess that over revving was a forerunner.

car went into limp mode this time on the way home from christmas dinner. Luckily this time I got to experience it first hand.
It’s not quite as my girlfriend had described (each time she was in an angry panic)
I was able to keep the pedal floored and manipulate the gears to get us home at a safe speed. The car definitely was reduced to the least amount of power possible with check engine flashing however seemed to “run” ok. There was some chugging but once I manually changed the gears it stayed fairy smooth which indicated to me there is no actual engine mechanical issues but something electronic forcing it into limp mode. Frustrating as all hell but my girlfriend was relieved to know that I could get her home safely and without having to call another tow truck.
Going back to Kia when they open, they’ll be towing it from my house. I’ll keep you all posted.
 
#25 ·
Code is P1326 (surprise surprise) I grabbed some freeze frame data, I wish I had taken the time to do this the last two times to compare. Nothing really stands out to me as out of the ordinary, we were traveling on flat group when the RPMs popped up. Was tempted to clear the code to see if it fixed itself but that would just give the dealer a way out.

Edit: I had the gf record a video as soon as it happen and remembered where we were, originally I thought we were on a hill to explain the RPM to speed discrepancy but we were on flat ground, maybe even a slight decline.

Mode $02 - Freeze Frame

PIDDescriptionValueUnits
0x02Freeze frame DTCP1326
0x03Fuel system 1 status2
0x03Fuel system 2 status0
0x04Calculated load value46.27%
0x05Engine coolant temperature84C
0x06Short term fuel % trim - Bank 13.12%
0x07Long term fuel % trim - Bank 1-2.34%
0x0BIntake manifold absolute pressure8.41psi
0x0CEngine RPM3702RPM
0x0DVehicle speed106km/h
0x0EIgnition timing advance for #1 cylinder33.5deg
0x0FIntake air temperature3C
0x11Absolute throttle position23.92%
0x1FTime since engine start848sec
0x2ECommanded evaporative purge0%
0x2FFuel level input42.75%
0x33Barometric pressure14.07psi
0x42Control module voltage14.58V
0x43Absolute load value47.06%
0x44Fuel/Air commanded equivalence ratio1
0x45Relative throttle position16.08%
0x46Ambient air temperature-3C
0x47Absolute throttle position B23.53%
0x49Accelerator pedal position D14.9%
0x4AAccelerator pedal position E14.9%
0x4CCommanded throttle actuator control18.43%
0x51Fuel type1
0x59Fuel rail pressure (absolute)2828.24psi
 
#26 ·
Code is P1326 …
It's nothing but a waste of your time to try diagnosing this code. The P1326 is what the ECM sets when the knock sensor sends a voltage pattern that it identifies to be harmful knock. The noise may be actual knocking, or it could also be just another false positive, but there is no way to determine that from freeze frame (or any other ODB data either).

You are completely dependent on your stealership to resolve the issue, and Kia's fall back position will be to replace the engine, if the code/limp mode cannot be eliminated by anything else they do.
 
#27 ·
It’s such a weird feeling. I was happy to finally have one vehicle with warranty that I knew I wouldn’t have to mess with and yet it’s the one we have had the most issues with that I can’t mess with.

I’ve got a 2013 Focus ST and a 2013 F150. Zero issues with 140k and 180k with just oil changes, brakes and a water pump on the F150 which took me all of 1hr to change.

I broke down and let her pick the Sportage over the Escape as the price was better. Man, am I regretting not holding my ground.
 
#28 ·
It’s such a weird feeling. I was happy to finally have one vehicle with warranty that I knew I wouldn’t have to mess with and yet it’s the one we have had the most issues with that I can’t mess with.

I’ve got a 2013 Focus ST and a 2013 F150. Zero issues with 140k and 180k with just oil changes, brakes and a water pump on the F150 which took me all of 1hr to change.

I broke down and let her pick the Sportage over the Escape as the price was better. Man, am I regretting not holding my ground.
My wife's mother got her a brand new 2018 Escape in January and we found out this summer that all the 1.5 turbo engines have a design flaw and eventually they will all blow a head gasket so much for the escapes. Also I don't like the car, I like my 2017 Sportage way better. All the computer displays are much more user-friendly in my opinion. I would have rather she got a Sportage but that's a long story.
 
#32 ·
Kia is going to replace the actual knock sensor this time.. but first we need to wait for approval from Kia Canada for the repair as it's a "very expensive, big job".

I looked up a video on what is required, it was 8.5 minutes long and the part is $50. The hardest part looks to be removing the intake manifold. Any competent tech can bang that job out in an hour. Anyway that's not for me to worry about but I've personally cleaned the intake valves on a similarly laid out GDI engine in under 2 hours. Just annoying that they're playing it up. Or maybe there is some other underlying issue? Who knows. I'm going to ask them if they actually test the old knock sensor or are just throwing a part at it as he mentioned they are following a Kia "flow chart" rather than actually diagnosing the root cause. THAT worries me.

That aside, we have a loaner for the time being, a 2012 base model Soul but this time I had to actually request it, service manager again has been great.
 
#33 ·
As you now know and as I said from the outset, the engine has not failed, and yours is not the first to quit running after getting the update. Whatever is wrong with it is programming or a sensor/harness issue. Its just a damn shame that they cannot seem to fix it and take care of business.
 
#35 ·
Car is back, working normally again.

We are very lucky to have the service centre that we have. The dealer detailed the car inside and out and replaced the fuel that was used during the test drives. Nothing but good things to say about our service centre.

Finger crossed I don't need to come back to this forum.
 
#36 ·
Car is back, working normally again.

We are very lucky to have the service centre that we have. The dealer detailed the car inside and out and replaced the fuel that was used during the test drives. Nothing but good things to say about our service centre.

Finger crossed I don't need to come back to this forum.
Good to hear.

We always hear of the bad dealerships which creates the perception that they're all bad.
 
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