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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know this response may be lengthy but want you to get the full picture of the situation.

On approximately January 6th my wife pulled in to work and noticed that her car temperature gauge was high. We called Quiet Zone in Watertown CT and had them come get the car. xxx the Service manager notified me that I had a blown head gasket. I purchased the car, a 2016 Kia Sorento, at Premier Kia in Branford Ct with a lifetime limited powertrain warranty with approximately 22,000 miles on it. It now has 74,999 miles on it.

At that time Crowley told xxx from Quite Zone that they have seen issues with my particular engine in which the bolts that attach the head to the block are stripping and if that is the case it should be covered under warranty whether it be Kia or Zurich. (Zurich is the warranty company I have the lifetime limited warranty with)
The car was towed to Crowley Kia on approximately January 14th because at that time I was told they were responsible. I then began working with xxx in the Crowley Service department. He explained to me that he has seen this issue before. Bolts are stripping from the block due to a manufacturing issue. On January 8th, I was notified by Crowley that Kia is not responsible that Zurich is as far as any warranty goes.
January 9th, Zurich said before they can determine if they will cover the car it needs to be torn down to find the cause of failure at my expense. If it is determined that it is covered, Zurich would cover the cost of the teardown as well as the repairs. Teardown was approximately $1500.00. I told xxxxto do the teardown with the understanding that this issue would most likely be covered by warranty. I directed xxx to stop the teardown if he saw anything that looked like an issue warranty wouldn’t cover.
On January 14th xxx from Crowley contacted me to let me know that his technician was working on the teardown and that there were no issues as far as maintenance, no sludge, no metal shavings in oil pan. He assured me that this was not a maintenance issue. He stated that all internal parts of the motor were in perfect shape. He then called me later that day and said that the cause of failure was absolutely the head bolts and stripping. He again told me that this is a manufacturing issue and again that they have seen the same issue multiple times. He stated this is cut and dry. He would call Zurich and that they would be sending someone out to look at the findings.
A few days later, January 17th, xxx contacted me to let me know that Zurich’s inspector had denied my claim. He stated that my warranty through Zurich is only responsible for working components found within the engine and the cause of failure with the stripping bolts and threads were not covered.
xxx gave me a price of $8900.00 for a used engine with 60,000 miles with a 6 month warranty plus approximately $1,500.00 for the tear down. The total cost to have my car repaired is approximately $10,400.00.
xxx from Crowley advised me to call Branford Premier Kia to see if there was anything they could do since they sold me the car and the warranty and that Kia should be held responsible for this failure.
I talked to multiple people at Premier Kia. I talk to xxx who told me that this is a Kia manufacturing issue and not a dealership issue. At this time there is no recall. He stated that they know about the bolt thread issue and that I need to contact them, Kia, at Kia Consumer Affairs.
On January 17th I contacted Kia consumer affairs. They opened up a case. They said they would be contacting Crowley for more information. In the meantime, I took it upon myself to research this issue of threads and head bolts stripping with other Kia Dealership service centers in CT. In addition to Crowley Kia of Bristol Ct and Premier Kia of Branford Ct (both of which told me this was a reoccurring issue that Kia was aware of) I contacted the following:
Kia of East Hartford- I talked to xxx. He stated that he has seen this issue with multiple cars.
Kia of Stamford- I talked to xxxx- He has seen this exact issue 2 or 3 times
Colombia Kia- I spoke with Service Advisor xxxx. When explaining the issue to xxxxabout my car he stopped me mid-sentence explained that there is an issue with bolts stripping from the block. He has seen multiple cases.
Executive Kia Wallingford. I spoke with xxxx- He has seen it multiple times and that Kia has yet to advise or recall.
Gary Rome Kia- spoke with Service Manager xxxx, she has seen this issue on more than one occasion and that when a car comes in overheating this is one of the issues Kia has directed them to look for. (Bolts stripping in block)
On January 22, I missed a call from Kia Consumer Affairs from a person by the name of xxx. xxx said on my answering machine that he had information and to call him back as he is in charge of my case. I called back but he wasn’t available. He called me back in the morning on January 23. He stated that Kia was not going to do anything to repair the car. He stated from the information that they received from Crowley Kia, the bolts that were used were the correct bolts but that someone in the past must have removed the bolts and damaged the threads, therefore Kia is not liable. He stated the car was out of warranty and that there were no recalls on the car at this time.
I told xxxx that their response to this matter is not acceptable. I have spoken to 7 or 8 Kia dealer service departments and their Service Managers, Service Advisers and Technicians. Every single person I have spoken to has stated that this is a known issue that Kia is aware of involving manufacturing issue around the bolts and or threads that connect the head to the block. I stated that Kia needs to stand behind their product and their customers and fix the car at their cost and reimburse me for any costs that have been acquired. xxxx took my information and said that he was going to be transferring my case to the Escalation Department.
After getting off the phone with xxxx from Kia Consumer Affairs, I immediately called xxxx at Crowley Kia. I relayed that Kia Consumer Affairs said that Crowley had reported that the bolts being stripped was because someone tried to take them out incorrectly causing three of the bolts in the head to strip. xxxx said that he had never said anything like that and that he was going to the service manager xxxx for clarification.
Later that day, xxxxx from the Escalation Department with Kia Consumer Affairs called and stated that my car is no longer under warranty and that they are not responsible for stripped threads. I told him that this car has never had the bolts removed before. He then asked how I could know this if I’m the second owner. When I mentioned the countless number of claims of similar issues he said there are no recalls and that anything else is just hearsay. He stated that they are finished with the case and have made their decision. If I want to pursue this further, I must do it on my own.
I called xxxx at Quiet Zone and he looked up my vehicle on Carfax to see if any work had been done to this car besides regular maintenance and it has not meaning that, according to Carfax, those bolts have never been removed.
I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY NUMEROUS KIA SERVICE DEPARTMENTS THAT THIS IS A COMMON ISSUE THAT KIA IS AWARE OF. THE FAILURE IS A RESULT OF A MANUFACTURING ISSUE.
I have contacted my Attorney General and made a claim with NHTSA office of Defects Investigation.
I am a school teacher, married and have three teenaged boys. I owe more than $16,000 dollars on this car and now have a repair that is $10,400.00 for a reoccurring issue that Kia is refusing to recognize. Please help me resolve this issue.
 

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2019 Kia Sportage. SX with AWD. 2.0L Direct Injected Turbocharged & Intercooled Gas.
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GeneB1....you really need to start a new thread. What has happened here is calling 'Hijacking a thread'.....not intentionally mind you. People won't know you posted on top of an existing thread, even though its the same basic subject matter. You can elect to do nothing and perhaps garner replies, but for better exposure make a new post!
Personally I think the denial of warranty is BS. Critical torque to yield fasteners like head bolts, rod bolts, main cap bolts are integral working parts of the components the hold together. They keep engineered clamp load maintained to prevent lift off at the joint! The warranty company is playing with words.

MOD Edit: Moved to new thread.
 

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Sorento LX V6 2018
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Unfortunately, lawyer is probably the only recourse. Either Zurich or Kia need to step up. This shows the lack of value of aftermarket warranties since they are riddled with weasel language to exempt them from almost any failure.

You might be able to find an attorney who, for a nominal fee, will send an initial letter to Kia corporate/consumer laying out the facts, nature of the failure and the obligation of the company to resolve the issue without further litigation. That $250 letter might resolve everything up front, might not. Certainly you've researched the issue to death, it seems pretty clear it's a defect. The attorney might also suggest a similar letter to Zurich (for another $250 unfortunately).

I would also suggest gathering as much evidence from the Internet of other failures. The service guys/gals you've talked to are probably not going to go on record about the issue since they need their jobs. Finding other owners who have suffered the same failure will let you gather some written evidence of the problem. It will take some research on your part to pin down other similar failures but your attorney will probably require it and you don't want to pay his/her rates to do the research.

Sorry you are experiencing such a horrendous problem and I hope that it is resolved in your favor, as it should be IMO.
 

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Not much on google search for this issue seen on 'multiple cars'...
Wonder how those were resolved and what engine (or both) ?
 

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The problem I see with these reports is that all correspondence is NOT in writing which results in it being rebutted as hearsay.
 

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2019 Kia Sportage. SX with AWD. 2.0L Direct Injected Turbocharged & Intercooled Gas.
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Push back on Zurich, your paid after market warranty company, a lot harder.
Tell them that you've already talked to multiple Automotive Engineers who design engine components and engineered joints. Tell them if it goes to court or arbitration they will lose, and then their good name will be drug thru the mud.
See if that gets their attention.....Not a threat, only facts....
 

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'
...
I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY NUMEROUS KIA SERVICE DEPARTMENTS THAT THIS IS A COMMON ISSUE THAT KIA IS AWARE OF. THE FAILURE IS A RESULT OF A MANUFACTURING ISSUE. ...
First off, you shouldn't be posting people's names, unless they give their consent (which I'm sure you did not ask for). However, since you did, I just got off the phone with one of them, who did not confirm this to be a 'common issue'. He called it 'very occasional'.

I'm at a loss how head bolts on a low mileage vehicle could be 'stripping out', and so was the individual from Kia who I just spoke to. Stripping out is an installation issue, and if this is happening at the factory, you don't go 20 miles, much less 20K. But if not at the factory, then who removes head bolts on low mileage vehicles? I guess we'll have to just sit back and wait for further developments on this one.
 

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Did you really write all of that without indicating which engine do you have?

That price seems absurd for a used engine with 60,000 miles?!?
 

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2016 Kia Sorento v6 3.3l
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Discussion Starter #9
First off, you shouldn't be posting people's names, unless they give their consent (which I'm sure you did not ask for). However, since you did, I just got off the phone with one of them, who did not confirm this to be a 'common issue'. He called it 'very occasional'.

I'm at a loss how head bolts on a low mileage vehicle could be 'stripping out', and so was the individual from Kia who I just spoke to. Stripping out is an installation issue, and if this is happening at the factory, you don't go 20 miles, much less 20K. But if not at the factory, then who removes head bolts on low mileage vehicles? I guess we'll have to just sit back and wait for further developments on this one.
Thanks for your feedback. I went back and xxxx the names. Good point. "Very occasional or common" the point making here is all of these people are seeing the same issue which doesn't make sense. No one should be seeing this issue and if every technician I talked to is seeing it I would say its common. Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Did you really write all of that without indicating which engine do you have?

That price seems absurd for a used engine with 60,000 miles?!?
thanks for your feedback. The title indicates a 2016 sorento. Its a V6 3.3l I believe.
 

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Let me share a story with you.....A major US auto manufacture at one time had a really nice all aluminum V8 they used in their upscale vehicle line up. The engine block was manufactured from die cast aluminum. The die casting process is excellent, great for transmission cases and other thin wall parts, but does not lend itself to thick sections (bolt bosses). Shrink porosity can become an issue; it is internal and only X-Ray analysis will find it + it is not repeatable nor predicitible. Roll Form tapping was used in this scenario to make the threads, which 'moves 'material like 'bread dough' instead of 'cutting' and making chips.

The shrink porosity in the casting caused the female threads to crumble after the hole was drilled and tapped. No one knew this and ultimately only ultrasonic Eddy current inspection, later added in the machining line, caught it.

Roll Formed Threads are supposed to be a more robust thread design, and they are in most cases. Thousands of engines were made and in customers hands. Not every block had the issue....it was sporadic and tied to season changes more than anything (early spring/late fall). The issue did not show up (as a blown head gasket) for 30K - 50K miles, well out of warranty. When complaints came in and law suites threatened a lot of heat was put on the Block DRE to 'fix the issue'. He could not, and sadly committed suicide by hanging himself in the tear down area used by engineering....I sadily witnessed the post discovery of his actions.

Ultimately, the dealerships were instructed to install Time-Serts, new bolts, and gaskets, to correct the issue, which they did. It worked. That was the ultimate fix for that particular issue.

This premium V8 engine went out of production when the models it was used in were discontinued.

So, now knowing this, is the engine block in this case made from die cast aluminum??
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Not much on google search for this issue seen on 'multiple cars'...
Wonder how those were resolved and what engine (or both) ?
My feeling is a car comes in overheating and owner is told it has a blown head gasket. Most cars are still under warranty and are fixed with customer not knowing the actual cause or to concerned because it’s being fixed not at their cost Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Let me share a story with you.....A major US auto manufacture at one time had a really nice all aluminum V8 they used in their upscale vehicle line up. The engine block was manufactured from die cast aluminum. The die casting process is excellent, great for transmission cases and other thin wall parts, but does not lend itself to thick sections (bolt bosses). Shrink porosity can become an issue; it is internal and only X-Ray analysis will find it + it is not repeatable nor predicitible. Roll Form tapping was used in this scenario to make the threads, which 'moves 'material like 'bread dough' instead of 'cutting' and making chips.

The shrink porosity in the casting caused the female threads to crumble after the hole was drilled and tapped. No one knew this and ultimately only ultrasonic Eddy current inspection, later added in the machining line, caught it.

Roll Formed Threads are supposed to be a more robust thread design, and they are in most cases. Thousands of engines were made and in customers hands. Not every block had the issue....it was sporadic and tied to season changes more than anything (early spring/late fall). The issue did not show up (as a blown head gasket) for 30K - 50K miles, well out of warranty. When complaints came in and law suites threatened a lot of heat was put on the Block DRE to 'fix the issue'. He could not, and sadly committed suicide by hanging himself in the tear down area used by engineering....I sadily witnessed the post discovery of his actions.

Ultimately, the dealerships were instructed to install Time-Serts, new bolts, and gaskets, to correct the issue, which they did. It worked. That was the ultimate fix for that particular issue.

This premium V8 engine went out of production when the models it was used in were discontinued.

So, now knowing this, is the engine block in this case made from die cast aluminum??
It is an aluminum block
 

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It is an aluminum block
Pressure Die Cast, Semi Permanent Mold, Sand Cast? Makes a difference! All the difference in the world.
 

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GeneB1....you really need to start a new thread. What has happened here is calling 'Hijacking a thread'.....not intentionally mind you. People won't know you posted on top of an existing thread, even though its the same basic subject matter. You can elect to do nothing and perhaps garner replies, but for better exposure make a new post!
Personally I think the denial of warranty is BS. Critical torque to yield fasteners like head bolts, rod bolts, main cap bolts are integral working parts of the components the hold together. They keep engineered clamp load maintained to prevent lift off at the joint! The warranty company is playing with words.

MOD Edit: Moved to new thread.
@GeneB1

We separated these post from the other thread on the same topic and moved them to this new one you created - should we merge them again, seeing as you've gone back to the other one?
 

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WOW okay where to start......First off this is definitely an issue with your aftermarket warranty and the dealer that sold it to you. This is NOT a Kia issue. First of all I can not believe none of the mechanics on this site have spoken up. As I said this is Not a Kia issue but an issue with aluminum blocks in general. All cars using aluminum blocks have this issue as I am just a shade tree mechanic and have come across it in 3 different manufacturers. When the vehicle over heats due to a head gasket failure the head swells causing the bolts to pull the threads from the aluminum block. It happens 80% of the time on an aluminum block engine with aluminum heads. This brings up my concern with the shop that is trying to sell you a new engine. They are trying to take you and or your warranty company to the cleaners. This issue should only add $200 to the total bill of a head gasket replacement as and that is giving them an hour to fix the bolt threads which should take about 15-30 minutes. The original threads are drilled out and the hole is tapped. An insert is then placed into the hole with locktite. The inserts allow you to use the OEM head bolts. Like I said this is a common issue with aluminum blocks and kits are sold/rented that contain the guilds, drill bits and taps. You normally have to buy the inserts separately.
If your aftermarket warranty covers a head gasket replacement they should cover this. The hardest part may to fine a kit with the guilds for the Kia. If you are taking it to a Kia Shop I would think they would have one...oh wait they just replace the engine with one from a wrecking yard at double their cost.
Looks like you have two problems an aftermarket warranty and a shop that are both trying to rip you off.

Sorry if this post offends anyone.
 

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I know this response may be lengthy but want you to get the full picture of the situation.

On approximately January 6th my wife pulled in to work and noticed that her car temperature gauge was high. We called Quiet Zone in Watertown CT and had them come get the car. xxx the Service manager notified me that I had a blown head gasket. I purchased the car, a 2016 Kia Sorento, at Premier Kia in Branford Ct with a lifetime limited powertrain warranty with approximately 22,000 miles on it. It now has 74,999 miles on it.

At that time Crowley told xxx from Quite Zone that they have seen issues with my particular engine in which the bolts that attach the head to the block are stripping and if that is the case it should be covered under warranty whether it be Kia or Zurich. (Zurich is the warranty company I have the lifetime limited warranty with)
The car was towed to Crowley Kia on approximately January 14th because at that time I was told they were responsible. I then began working with xxx in the Crowley Service department. He explained to me that he has seen this issue before. Bolts are stripping from the block due to a manufacturing issue. On January 8th, I was notified by Crowley that Kia is not responsible that Zurich is as far as any warranty goes.
January 9th, Zurich said before they can determine if they will cover the car it needs to be torn down to find the cause of failure at my expense. If it is determined that it is covered, Zurich would cover the cost of the teardown as well as the repairs. Teardown was approximately $1500.00. I told xxxxto do the teardown with the understanding that this issue would most likely be covered by warranty. I directed xxx to stop the teardown if he saw anything that looked like an issue warranty wouldn’t cover.
On January 14th xxx from Crowley contacted me to let me know that his technician was working on the teardown and that there were no issues as far as maintenance, no sludge, no metal shavings in oil pan. He assured me that this was not a maintenance issue. He stated that all internal parts of the motor were in perfect shape. He then called me later that day and said that the cause of failure was absolutely the head bolts and stripping. He again told me that this is a manufacturing issue and again that they have seen the same issue multiple times. He stated this is cut and dry. He would call Zurich and that they would be sending someone out to look at the findings.
A few days later, January 17th, xxx contacted me to let me know that Zurich’s inspector had denied my claim. He stated that my warranty through Zurich is only responsible for working components found within the engine and the cause of failure with the stripping bolts and threads were not covered.
xxx gave me a price of $8900.00 for a used engine with 60,000 miles with a 6 month warranty plus approximately $1,500.00 for the tear down. The total cost to have my car repaired is approximately $10,400.00.
xxx from Crowley advised me to call Branford Premier Kia to see if there was anything they could do since they sold me the car and the warranty and that Kia should be held responsible for this failure.
I talked to multiple people at Premier Kia. I talk to xxx who told me that this is a Kia manufacturing issue and not a dealership issue. At this time there is no recall. He stated that they know about the bolt thread issue and that I need to contact them, Kia, at Kia Consumer Affairs.
On January 17th I contacted Kia consumer affairs. They opened up a case. They said they would be contacting Crowley for more information. In the meantime, I took it upon myself to research this issue of threads and head bolts stripping with other Kia Dealership service centers in CT. In addition to Crowley Kia of Bristol Ct and Premier Kia of Branford Ct (both of which told me this was a reoccurring issue that Kia was aware of) I contacted the following:
Kia of East Hartford- I talked to xxx. He stated that he has seen this issue with multiple cars.
Kia of Stamford- I talked to xxxx- He has seen this exact issue 2 or 3 times
Colombia Kia- I spoke with Service Advisor xxxx. When explaining the issue to xxxxabout my car he stopped me mid-sentence explained that there is an issue with bolts stripping from the block. He has seen multiple cases.
Executive Kia Wallingford. I spoke with xxxx- He has seen it multiple times and that Kia has yet to advise or recall.
Gary Rome Kia- spoke with Service Manager xxxx, she has seen this issue on more than one occasion and that when a car comes in overheating this is one of the issues Kia has directed them to look for. (Bolts stripping in block)
On January 22, I missed a call from Kia Consumer Affairs from a person by the name of xxx. xxx said on my answering machine that he had information and to call him back as he is in charge of my case. I called back but he wasn’t available. He called me back in the morning on January 23. He stated that Kia was not going to do anything to repair the car. He stated from the information that they received from Crowley Kia, the bolts that were used were the correct bolts but that someone in the past must have removed the bolts and damaged the threads, therefore Kia is not liable. He stated the car was out of warranty and that there were no recalls on the car at this time.
I told xxxx that their response to this matter is not acceptable. I have spoken to 7 or 8 Kia dealer service departments and their Service Managers, Service Advisers and Technicians. Every single person I have spoken to has stated that this is a known issue that Kia is aware of involving manufacturing issue around the bolts and or threads that connect the head to the block. I stated that Kia needs to stand behind their product and their customers and fix the car at their cost and reimburse me for any costs that have been acquired. xxxx took my information and said that he was going to be transferring my case to the Escalation Department.
After getting off the phone with xxxx from Kia Consumer Affairs, I immediately called xxxx at Crowley Kia. I relayed that Kia Consumer Affairs said that Crowley had reported that the bolts being stripped was because someone tried to take them out incorrectly causing three of the bolts in the head to strip. xxxx said that he had never said anything like that and that he was going to the service manager xxxx for clarification.
Later that day, xxxxx from the Escalation Department with Kia Consumer Affairs called and stated that my car is no longer under warranty and that they are not responsible for stripped threads. I told him that this car has never had the bolts removed before. He then asked how I could know this if I’m the second owner. When I mentioned the countless number of claims of similar issues he said there are no recalls and that anything else is just hearsay. He stated that they are finished with the case and have made their decision. If I want to pursue this further, I must do it on my own.
I called xxxx at Quiet Zone and he looked up my vehicle on Carfax to see if any work had been done to this car besides regular maintenance and it has not meaning that, according to Carfax, those bolts have never been removed.
I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY NUMEROUS KIA SERVICE DEPARTMENTS THAT THIS IS A COMMON ISSUE THAT KIA IS AWARE OF. THE FAILURE IS A RESULT OF A MANUFACTURING ISSUE.
I have contacted my Attorney General and made a claim with NHTSA office of Defects Investigation.
I am a school teacher, married and have three teenaged boys. I owe more than $16,000 dollars on this car and now have a repair that is $10,400.00 for a reoccurring issue that Kia is refusing to recognize. Please help me resolve this issue.
Wow! I a different problem with my 2017 Kia Sportage, but a similar response from Kia. After months of non returned and missed calls with Kia Consumer Affairs, and some either 'lost records' or flat-lying by Joe Myers Kia, Houston, Texas, I found myself stewing on it much too much while at work. For the sake of my own mental health, I threw in the towel, traded in my much like Sportage on a new Honda. My new Honda is a nice car but no nicer than my Sportage and it lacks the power fold rearview mirrors and heated steering wheel. The Sportage had a better back up camera. I miss it some, but think they made me feel burned enough that they will get no more of my business. It's a shame because I think they make a nice car and mine had no problems, except the one they would not/could not fix. What put me over the edge was when they claimed I was lying about it and I found myself thinking of doing things a sane man would not do. Some honest people in their service area would make it a much better company to do business with.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you for your input. I have towed my car from the Kia Service department and to a different mechanic. I agree with you. Kia technician blames the overheating on the pulled bolts from the block as the cause of failure. That doesn’t make sense. Bolts just don’t strip for no reason. It’s not the cause of failure but is a result of the cause of failure. Hoping my new mechanic can find the actual cause of failure which caused the car to overheat warping the head which pulled the bolts from the block. If he does (fingers crossed) I will present this new information to the warranty company and hopefully it will be covered.
 
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