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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter #1
So I finally got around to doing a run in my 2012 SX AWD. Needless to say the results are very disappointing. I ran a 16.05 @ 89mph. I ran with traction control off, the transmission in "sportmatic" and letting it shift automatically. I swear it feels like it launches harder in sportmatic, but this time around it didn't seem to yield me very good results. Perhaps things would have been different if left in drive, but I won't know now, not paying to go to the track to run a slow time again.

Perhaps the indicated 60 degree celcius intake temps had something to do with it, but I don't know if it was pulling the temp pre or post intercooler...

Looks like it's going to be retired to the status of winter beater next year once I have a fun two seater for summer.

Video footage:

 
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Kia Sportage 2.0 AWD CRDi 135kw/184hp
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What is your 0-60 time? Do you use ODB-Bluetooth connection to log data? I have a 185HP 2.0, tuned to 220HP and I swear we are close. Hmm.
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter #4
On this run, it looks my 0-60 was about 8.1 seconds based on the data log. You can clearly see the launch is the issue (not at a fault of myself, I had my foot planted hard). Brake boosting does NOT work as the PCM only allows 10psi of boost in first gear if you brake boost.

If you look at the launch information, it takes 1 second to go 10km/h, the next 1 second yields your speed at 24km/h, then at 3 seconds you jump to 45km/h, so clearly this is a soft launching car.

Data values are shown below, although numbers are very slightly off. Also, notice how pig rich it runs under full throttle!





 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter #5
Graph of Speed (KM/h) vs. Time (second)

 

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2015 Sorento EX V6 AWD Ebony Black
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Interesting info, Thanks ;)

I bet if you could find a way to get the Sporty to hook up off the line, the results would be way better. Even my Tuc feels like it's glued to the ground when I try a hard take off? I don't know if it's because it's AWD, or what? I can never seem to break a wheel free, no matter what I do. :rolleyes:

On my original test drive of a few FWD's, I was able to get them to peel out on loose sand, or gravel, accidently? (TC on), Those vehicles drove a lot lighter also, almost too light for me.
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter #7
Interesting info, Thanks ;)

I bet if you could find a way to get the Sporty to hook up off the line, the results would be way better. Even my Tuc feels like it's glued to the ground when I try a hard take off? I don't know if it's because it's AWD, or what? I can never seem to break a wheel free, no matter what I do. :rolleyes:

On my original test drive of a few FWD's, I was able to get them to peel out on loose sand, or gravel, accidently? (TC on), Those vehicles drove a lot lighter also, almost too light for me.
You'll never spin the tires with a T-GDI with AWD unless you brake torque. If you load up the engine before the launch, you can hear the tires spin slightly, but again that yields low boost in first gear. FWD is the worst powertrain for launches because when you accelerate, the weight shifts to the back of the car (off the front tires) and causes your tires to spin.

Mine hooked up completely, it's not a matter of poor launch, its a matter of nerfed programming (softening the launch). I'm betting Kia did this due to either wanting to have less cars coming in for warranty repairs for people bagging them, or because the original numbers from the 2011 was better than the 0-60 times of the Optima, their flagship car.

I'm betting a tune back to the 2011 programming would yield a low 6 second 0-60, and a further tune with quicker shifts and harder launch plus a little more boost would push the AWD Sportage into the high or mid 5's.
 

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Why is there a pickup-truck going much faster than a Sportage?

I know there's very fast trucks, like the SRT-10, 0-60 in ~5sec, but that's an 8.3L V10 dragging over two and a half tons. Sportage is published "6.1 seconds", making it a second behind the crazy sport-truck, not watching a normal truck zoom away.

It's a measurable thing, and Highbeamz has measured it. Performance varies from car to car, but I'm seeing consistently worse numbers online. I'm increasingly disappointed by Kia's incorrect specification.

I'm betting a tune back to the 2011 programming would yield a low 6 second 0-60, and a further tune with quicker shifts and harder launch plus a little more boost would push the AWD Sportage into the high or mid 5's.
I'm hoping so too. I wish I knew someone was working on cracking the ECU.
 

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2013 Sportage (wife's)
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Only 1 second and 7.8mph ahead of M/T's 2.4L FWD Sportage . . . that's pretty surprising.

I didn't see your 60 foot times noted anywhere, do you have those?
 

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Why is there a pickup-truck going much faster than a Sportage?
First of all, we have no idea what kind of mods the truck in this race is running. It sounds like at least an exhaust. Secondly, the Sportage isn't exactly quick, and a lot of modern day pickups are deceptively powerful. There are a number of everyday pickups that are available with engines that make them as quick or quicker than a large percentage of passenger vehicles. Just to name a few:
Toyota Tundra (5.7L V8, 381hp/401lb-ft)
Ford F150 (3.5L T-V6, 365hp/420lb-ft) or (6.2L V8, 411hp, 434lb-ft)
Dodge Ram 1500 (5.7L V8, 383hp/400lb-ft)
Nissan Titan (5.6L V8, 317hp/385lb-ft)

. . . and that's not even getting into the diesel options that can be flashed to make obscene power.
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter #11
The truck beside me was a F150 Ecoboost. They have been tested at about 14.7s 1/4 mile, which is exactly what he got. His exhaust didn't sound stock, but that's no guarantee he is tuned. Had my car hit a 14.7s 1/4 mile as the 2011s have been tested at, it would have been neck and neck.

My 60 foot time was about 2.3s, my RT was about 0.5s (even though I slammed the throttle on the second light of the tree, it has that much fly by wire throttle lag). Just FYI the RT does not count towards your time...


For comparative purposes only, although it is lower to the ground, has more power and the advantage of twin clutch or full manual, by comparison the Lancer Evo X goes 0-30MPH in 1.6s, whereas in 1.6s I was only doing 15mph...soft launch indeed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Just a few more "paper" facts to add to the "wtf factor"...


Motortrend 2012 Kia Sportage EX (2.4) FWD auto:

2012 Kia Sportage EX First Test - Motor Trend

0-30: 3.0s
0-40: 4.6s
0-50: 6.6s
0-60: 9.1s

And according to a 0-60 calculator:
3284lbs, 176hp, FWD, Automatic = 8.724s 0-60 (not too far off)



But for my T-GDI:

0-30: 3.0s
0-40: 4.5s
0-50: 6.2s
0-60: 8.1s

And according to the 0-60 calculator:
3600lbs, 260hp, AWD, Automatic = 6.175s



Food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)

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2013 Sportage (wife's)
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The truck beside me was a F150 Ecoboost. They have been tested at about 14.7s 1/4 mile, which is exactly what he got. His exhaust didn't sound stock, but that's no guarantee he is tuned. Had my car hit a 14.7s 1/4 mile as the 2011s have been tested at, it would have been neck and neck.
In my list of sleeper trucks.

My 60 foot time was about 2.3s, my RT was about 0.5s (even though I slammed the throttle on the second light of the tree, it has that much fly by wire throttle lag). Just FYI the RT does not count towards your time...
Correct.

For comparative purposes only, although it is lower to the ground, has more power and the advantage of twin clutch or full manual, by comparison the Lancer Evo X goes 0-30MPH in 1.6s, whereas in 1.6s I was only doing 15mph...soft launch indeed.
The reason I asked the 60' time was actually to do an apples-to-oranges comparison in my head to the tuned 2008 Legacy GT I owned. (also turbo 4 cylinder, AWD, auto trans) The LGT would lay down consistent, repeatable, 1.9 second 60' times with only a wimpy 4-5 psi boost launch. It had a sport-shifting automatic similar to the Sportage's, and would run faster times in full auto mode.
 

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Just a few more "paper" facts to add to the "wtf factor"...


Motortrend 2012 Kia Sportage EX (2.4) FWD auto:

2012 Kia Sportage EX First Test - Motor Trend

0-30: 3.0s
0-40: 4.6s
0-50: 6.6s
0-60: 9.1s

And according to a 0-60 calculator:
3284lbs, 176hp, FWD, Automatic = 8.724s 0-60 (not too far off)

But for my T-GDI:

0-30: 3.0s
0-40: 4.5s
0-50: 6.2s
0-60: 8.1s

And according to the 0-60 calculator:
3600lbs, 260hp, AWD, Automatic = 6.175s

Food for thought.
That's a damn shame, I wouldn't be very happy if I was an SX owner. :(
 

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You need a manual box, did they do them in the SX ?

A manual box, in a reasonably powerfull (250+ bhp) 4WD car launched with skill and little mechanical sympathy for the transmission is brutal - and breaks things quickly ... lol

WD :D
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter #17
You need a manual box, did they do them in the SX ?

A manual box, in a reasonably powerfull (250+ bhp) 4WD car launched with skill and little mechanical sympathy for the transmission is brutal - and breaks things quickly ... lol

WD :D
Manual is only available in Canada and the USA with the 2.4L petrol (non turbo) and FWD only. Any other variation with AWD or turbo means no manual transmission. There are very few AWD cars in Canada and the USA with a full manual...
 

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600RWHP HSV MALOO /SPORTARGE platinum TD
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i would think that our CRDI turbo wouldent be fare away from the SX petrol
going on those figers
(we dont have the SX here )
but ill get out the G-TECH and see what it says in 1/4 run some where :)
 

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Secondly, the Sportage isn't exactly quick.
I'd have disagreed before with the SX. 6.1 seconds to 100kph is quick. It's a relatively lightweight turbo CUV.

A truck with exponentially higher displacement can certainly be faster. Still, watching that video is unpleasant.
That's a damn shame, I wouldn't be very happy if I was an SX owner. :(
That's what I was trying to express. I don't know anything about drag racing, but seeing contradictory performance numbers and a truck pulling away into the distance is not good.
--

Someone mentioned in one of the "chip tuning" threads that 2012's boost seems initially limited. From that Performance:New image, many of the specs may be within a margin of error, where the differences are 0.1 or 0.2. Comparing the similar rolling-start numbers with the numbers above it seems to show that initial-limiting idea.

I've been working on an old engine. It displays a light if I disconnect the E-brake, but isn't electronically controlled. Any change I make matters mechanically. Computer control is a double-edged sword.
 

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2015 Ford Mustang GT
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Discussion Starter #20
Someone mentioned in one of the "chip tuning" threads that 2012's boost seems initially limited. From that Performance:New image, many of the specs may be within a margin of error, where the differences are 0.1 or 0.2. Comparing the similar rolling-start numbers with the numbers above it seems to show that initial-limiting idea.
That may have been me mentioning. I noticed the boost doesn't come on full until about 2 seconds into the run, it seems to slowly build, or even hover around the 5psi mark for a bit. Its not quite as limited as the FWD turbo as I think those have a 5psi cap along the entire first gear.

The rolling start vs standing start numbers are what I was getting at. Judging by those, as long as you are already moving, the 2011 and 2012 are about the same. It seems Kia implemented an algorithm during a standing start launch that limits the engine's capabilities, but it does not activate when already in motion. I vote Kia "updates" us to the 2011 powertrain programming :p
 
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