[OzSLS]

Quick one here. In the last few days our manual Rio has been getting temperamental about engaging for first gear (and sometimes second).

I might note that i'm a seasoned manual driver, smooth one at that, so it's not driver error.

You'll be at a stand-still, be in first, take off with more than adequate rpm then right at the end of the engagement, the clutch is completely off the floor, it'll pause for half a second then jerk noticeably and accelerate. This can happen sometimes in second too. The thing is, if you take off really slowly or aggressively, it is 100% fine, this issue has just developed at 'normal' take off speeds.

When this occurs, third and even fourth gear are VERY sensitive to throttle input as if you're in first at 5KM/h, clutch up. This first occurred on a hot day a few days back and now does it in the cold too. I've suspected clutch problems since day 1 but it's suddenly got worse. Smells like burning clutch-plate every few days too which isn't fun.

My question is, to those of you who've had clutch master cylinder problems in the past on the Rio, what were the symptoms? My master cylinder is noisy half the time like a 'clacking' noise on disengaging the clutch.

My theory is if there's a sticky valve in the master cylinder then the clutch may not be completely disengaging with the pedal release, then the revs are simply forcing the plate to grab the fly at the last second and causing a jolt at the end of the process.

It's worse with the aircon on, when it obviously requires more revs to take off under compressor load.

Anyone experience the master cylinder issue? or another clutch issue? Was the master cylinder a recall? I forget.

cheers.

 

[cwc_woo]

My old Mazda6 had one situation where I was flooring it to pass someone and when I released the clutch, it didn't come up and I had to stick my foot under to pull it back up. Didn't do that again ever since, but I sold the vehicle shortly after that. That car also had throttle hesitation sometimes where after I fully disengage the clutch, there'll be like a split second of nothing happening and then the car takes off like nothing happened. Not sure what was causing it. I always thought it was the electronic throttle input as I never experienced that in any of my older cars with mechanical throttle linkage.

 

[OzSLS]

yeah your old mazda sounds very similar, and it's hard to tell if it is a digital throttle issue or the clutch - clutch is definitely suffering as a result of it though

clutch makes a definite clunk on release when the engine is running only so it's not the pedal link, it's something to do with the hydraulics.

 

[rdrfronty]

Are you sure it's not the computer/engine itself and not the clutch engagement? I've never noticed anything to do with my clutch its always felt fine to me. But the engine itself has a noticeable pause or hesitation on the lower gears. It's a flaw in Kia's programming. It's a known and documented problem, even by auto magazines. Hopefully a Kia reprogram will happen soon. It's not a big deal, but still a little annoying. Is that perhaps what your feeling?

 

[OzSLS]

Are you sure it's not the computer/engine itself and not the clutch engagement? I've never noticed anything to do with my clutch its always felt fine to me. But the engine itself has a noticeable pause or hesitation on the lower gears. It's a flaw in Kia's programming. It's a known and documented problem, even by auto magazines. Hopefully a Kia reprogram will happen soon. It's not a big deal, but still a little annoying. Is that perhaps what your feeling?

have you got any links to that issue? i'd be interested to read them.

i have suspected all along it's either the clutch or the TPS/ fly-by-wire setup - but either way the clutch is suffering. It gets worse when hot too.

it's always had a temperamental first gear since May when we bought it, always been very touchy but this hesitation, or jerk sensation has become noticeably worse recently, and so has the burning clutch smell. The clutch mechanism is also a lot noisier now when the engine is running, so the hydraulics of it all. It may be more than one problem. It's been a lot worse since running 98RON fuel, but if i put 91 in, it pings. Getting hotter here so have to run it on premium. Might put 95 in next time.

still very interested to read up on the issue you described though as it's always had a 'little' pause, but not it's far greater it seems. If you don't 'over-rev' it off the line, it will jerk.

 

[rdrfronty]

Here is one link -
2013 Kia Rio5 SX Manual Instrumented Test – Review – Car and Driver
It talks about it second paragraph from the end. Calls it a "nasty sag". It's there for sure on mine. Still has has decent performance, but its annoying and needs programmed out. Kia are you listening?

 

[OzSLS]

Here is one link -
2013 Kia Rio5 SX Manual Instrumented Test – Review – Car and Driver
It talks about it second paragraph from the end. Calls it a "nasty sag". It's there for sure on mine. Still has has decent performance, but its annoying and needs programmed out. Kia are you listening?

it's probably there from the auto programming, where the slushbox and engine are tuned for economy, then they just forgot in the manual ha.

that 'nasty sag' does show itself sometimes in mine for sure, but it does it while taking off as well which is even worse, and the main issue i have. if you slip the clutch more on take-off and/or give it more revs, you're 9 times out of 10 all good, but it's annoying! Whatever it is is wrecking the clutch, or vice versa, or a combination of two things being at fault. It's the same 'sag' sensation though, just amplified being in first instead of second. The gearbox itself is fantastic, the interface between it and the engine, not so much.

 

[OzSLS]

this issue is worse lately, and is very random at times.. still annoying the hell out of me

still seems like the clutch master cylinder could be responsible

 

[SIMONSLS]

this issue is worse lately, and is very random at times.. still annoying the hell out of me

still seems like the clutch master cylinder could be responsible

Take it to the dealer and get it looked at..

 

[OzSLS]

Take it to the dealer and get it looked at..

rofl you think i haven't already champ?!

it's been in twice.

no idea why you would use two sarcastic emoticons for something that's already been done either.

as per standard dealer replies 'it can't be replicated' etc. 'no codes' and so on.

 

[Wry 'Cuda]

Isn't there some issue with the Cruise Control cancel switch on the clutch? I recall reading about it on the forum. Besides this useful function, the accelerator response is inhibited until clutch pedal is fully released, which is way after the clutch itself is engaged. Obviously designed by non-drivers.

 

[OzSLS]

yeah that's one of the 10+ things i've been thinking through.. haha

it most certainly does affect the throttle input on take off. However after the clutch is fully engaged it will still take off sometimes (normal throttle) like a bunny hopping delight. When it's in this mode, the throttle is hyper-touchy even at 60 or 70km/h even in 6th. It's ridonculous

 

[SIMONSLS]

rofl you think i haven't already champ?!

it's been in twice.

no idea why you would use two sarcastic emoticons for something that's already been done either.

as per standard dealer replies 'it can't be replicated' etc. 'no codes' and so on.

Sorry, but you had not mentioned in this topic that it had been to the dealer for this fault.

 

[Wry 'Cuda]

It most certainly does affect the throttle input on take off. However after the clutch is fully engaged it will still take off sometimes (normal throttle) like a bunny hopping delight. When it's in this mode, the throttle is hyper-touchy even at 60 or 70km/h even in 6th. It's ridonculous

The auto transmissions are so good these days that I don't see why manuals are still so popular, particlarly if the manufacturer fools with the set-up.

OK, so you save a few thousand $ and can make "executive decisions" on gear selection but is this really necessary? The few times I've REALLY needed to select a particular gear, the manual mode of any auto that I've owned has done the job.

 

[OzSLS]

Sorry, but you had not mentioned in this topic that it had been to the dealer for this fault.

have a look through my thread, pretty sure it's in there somewhere.

The auto transmissions are so good these days that I don't see why manuals are still so popular, particlarly if the manufacturer fools with the set-up.

OK, so you save a few thousand $ and can make "executive decisions" on gear selection but is this really necessary? The few times I've REALLY needed to select a particular gear, the manual mode of any auto that I've owned has done the job.

you're either a manual person or you're not. My view is auto for big (which i have many times and still have an auto v8 fairmont) and manual for small. If you're not a manual-minded person it's not easy to explain. But technically speaking, the Rio manual is far better in its performance. It's almost two seconds quicker to 100 for one thing. You can be in the right gear all the time and hold it there, and tell is exactly when you want the next which is especially helpful for my hilly area. There are many other aspects but manuals are FAR more fun to drive than autos. Test driving the auto Rio nearly put me to sleep.

if you're talking DSG autos then they can be quick, however once the warranty expires they can be mammothly expensive to fix. So can traditional autos too, with the 6 speeds being common place now.

As i said, you're either manual or auto in your mindset. I grew up with manuals and they're a far better application for a small car in this price range. Also when you're 'selecting a gear' manually in your auto, you're still playing against the torque converter, the manual has a direct connection to the flywheel with no slush-box sapping away the power and directness at its discretion.

Finally, our budget was 20 grand, not a cent over. I haggled this car for 20 grand, drive away. Auto would have been more.

Anyway that's a side note, i need a service manual for this thing so i can work out where all the switches are, and at least point the service department in the right direction as the car is still 'new' to them i'm told.

 

[SIMONSLS]

have a look through my thread, pretty sure it's in there somewhere.

:huh: Been back through both pages of this thread/topic and definitely no mention of you taking it to the dealer.

 

[Wry 'Cuda]

You're either a manual person or you're not.

I grew up with manuals and they're a far better application for a small car in this price range. Also when you're 'selecting a gear' manually in your auto, you're still playing against the torque converter, the manual has a direct connection to the flywheel with no slush-box sapping away the power and directness at its discretion.

I'm comfortable with manual and auto. There were very few autos around when I started driving. The first auto I drove was an EJ Holden, if that gives you a clue. Also borrowed a HR 2-speed auto at one stage. Slush City!

The autos in our Cerato and Mazda 6 change very quickly in either auto or manual mode. According to the test results, the Cerato auto only has a 1 second penalty to 100km/h, and it doesn't seem "slushy" at all. Doing better in a manual would be a bit hard on the clutch.

I suppose I'm just "over" the joys of manual gear changing. I have had 5 and 6 speed manuals in recent years, so I am aware of their benefits.

I wouldn't like the Dual Clutch gearboxes. As you say, they are likely to be expensive to maintain and are a bit tricky at low speeds, so I've heard. The clutch surfaces look rather small in diagrams that I've seen. Latest trend seems to be 10-speed autos, and they are conventional autos.

Oh yes, forgot to mention that my "Other Car" is a Nissan Maxima. I don't think you'd like the CVT; you have to think "Dial-a Gear" rather than "Slipping Clutch".

 

[OzSLS]

i love rev matching, on up and down shift, i love everything about manuals in smaller cars.. but i love auto in big cars, it's just what i'm happy with to be honest. But as i mentioned, i love the extra performance of the manual in the Rio vs the 6A box.

and yes CVT is weird, pick an RPM and take it to the end lol