[SkidRoe]

We have had our 2011 Sorento (V6 AWD 7 psgr) for about 1.5 years now, bought it new, now has about 40,000 kms (25,000 miles) on it.

It has always been noisy on start up, which seems to be a common theme with this engine (cam chain tensioners pumping up). Recently, the engine has developed a knock at start-up (in addition to the noisy cam chains), which goes away after a few seconds, but can also be occasionally heard when the engine is under load. Has anyone else ever experienced this?

The car was picked up by the dealer this morning. I made sure that the mechanic that picked it up heard the noise when I started it for him. All he said was “that doesn’t sound good”. I will be interested to hear their diagnosis.

I am really worried about the service department at our local dealer. They have pulled some real boner moves when I have had it serviced by them in the past, and the service manager definitely has not checked his mechanics’ work in the past. Anybody have any good dealer recommendations in the Southwestern Ontario region?

 

[SkidRoe]

Well, the dealer called. They acknowledge the knock, and their solution was to change the oil and add half a litre of Lucas oil additive. They claim my oil was low by 2 litres, and that they had an issue with the fact that I was not taking it to them for oil changes. Then they wanted to charge me for an oil change that I had not authorised them to do - I just change the oil 2 weeks ago. I refused to pay.

I then called KIA Canada to let them know what the situation was, and to clarify that it was my right to decide who changes my oil. They confirmed this, and to just hang on to my reciepts as proof. No problem. They also logged the knock issue for future follow up.

There is another dealer in town (I have also heard horror stories about them), but I think I am going to take the chance. The shoddy workmanship of the current dealer makes me cringe to think about.

I was talking to one of my collegues at work about the situation, he had a similar experience with a Saturn. He was telling me that in his case the dealer was not being compensated by the car company to do diagnostic warranty work, so if the fault was not really obvious, the dealer would not do anything to remedy it. I am thinking that this may be the case here, as the mechanic would be deep into the motor to find this issue. Sad to think that my car likely won't get fixed properly until it has a rod hanging out the side of it.

I wish I could take my car to the guy who works on my BMW 740....

 

[kobi411]

in my experience, a little noise when i had the sorento but i then shifted to castrol edge synthetic at 24000km and the engine became quieter.. and just make sure to let them know to have the oil 3/4ths full only.. because dealership tends to overfill most of the time.. this way you can fill the gap a little if you want to.. 3/4ths is good anyway.. hopefully something is fixed before you put the synthetic on.. it could be noisy or sticky lifters which synthetic will cure in time... good luck

 

[jfischer]

Mine clatters at startup too, and so does my neighbor's. It's always done it and seems to be a characteristic of the 3.5L engine. Hopefully it doesn't get any worse.

 

[SkidRoe]

Mine clatters at startup too, and so does my neighbor's. It's always done it and seems to be a characteristic of the 3.5L engine. Hopefully it doesn't get any worse.

Yes, mine has always had the typical start-up clatter (while the cam chain tensioners pump up), but in the last 3 weeks, it has developped a knock during this same time period. It lets out about 5-6 solid knocks during this same start-up time period. It really does not sound healthy at all.

I also notice that it has a similar knock at about 2500 RPM if the engine is revved while stationary, and sometimes it occurs while under load, pulling my trailer.

Based on the dealer's lack of action, I guess I am driving it until it fails.

 

[VIM]

Could it be a bad batch of gas in your last fill up?

Was your last fill up at the same place you normally fill up or somewhere else? A reputable change/station?

Just thinking out loud...

 

[SkidRoe]

Could it be a bad batch of gas in your last fill up?

Was your last fill up at the same place you normally fill up or somewhere else? A reputable change/station?

Just thinking out loud...

Thanks for the thought. I have run multiple tanks of gas through it since this started, all from what I would consider reputable stations (i.e. mainstream, brand name). I only have a couple of places that I fill up both of my cars. If there was a gas problem, I would have expected to pick it up with the BMW first. It's pretty finicky.

The only thing that I have done out of the ordinary was to put a bottle of injector cleaner in one of the tanks. Think that could have done somthing?

 

[VIM]

Don't know. I guess it's possible. I think they're pretty safe.

If that were the case, it would likely stop with the next fill-up. If it was a knock or ping, the dealer's mechanic should be able to determine if it was a bad or acceptable noise.

Best to see what the dealer says.

 

[SkidRoe]

Speaking of which, I am still looking for a good recommendation on a dealer for a second opinion. Anywhere in the Toronto, ON to Windsor, ON corridor.

I have no confidence in my current dealer, and I have heard equally bad reports about the other dealer in town. My BMW mechanic (whom is one of the only mechanics I have confidence in) told me every Kia owner that he knows goes out of London for service, but he was unsure of who they went to.

Thanks in advance for the recommendations.

 

[SkidRoe]

It's been a while, but I thought I would give an update. I ended up going to the other in-town dealer, and so far, so good.

After getting a bit of the run-around due to the original dealer lodging a denial of warranty coverage (as they were trying to say that the knock was because of something I did), the other dealer did bring the car in, did some diagnostics, and pinned the noise on the cam chain tensioners. I just got the car back and it is quieter than it has ever been. I am crossing my fingers that this problem is behind us now.

 

[Humble_Bear]

I use Mobil 1 since 1000 miles and the engine is smooth as butter.

 

[TheStig]

Just got my Sorento V6 a few weeks ago, I did not know anything about this cam tensioner noise, however since people mention "pumping up" I'm guessing the tensioning is done by oil pressure. I did notice the engine makes a lot of noise when starting (I've owned 31 cars, so that says a lot).

If that is the case, has anyone tried switching to a 0w-20 oil? The better cold pumpability may result in the oil getting to the tensioner quicker, quieting it down sooner. Just a thought. Haven't needed to do the oil yet, so I haven't checked the manual, but I'm assuming that 0w-20 is approved since the factory fill is 5w-20. Typically the cold numbers are okay by manufacturers as long as they are numerically smaller since it helps get oil to the top of the cam cover faster.

On the other hand, if people are using a thicker oil, say 10w-**, then I could see how this would prolong the problem.

As far as true knock, as in preignition, a scan tool could diagnose it, although you would usually only find it under a load. If the ECU/PCM is anything like anything else I've ever dealt with, if the ping/knock is bad enough, it will generate a CEL.

Getting 276hp out of 3.5L with 87 octane is awfully good, so I'm sure KIA has these engines running right on the edge of knock to get those numbers. As a comparison, my previous Lexus IS350 3.5L got 306hp out of 3.5L but required 12 fuel injectors (6 port, 6 direct) and premium fuel to do it. My car previous to that (Nissan 350Z with the VQ35DE engine) had something like 268hp (Burning premium fuel mind you!).

 

[dyllor]

I bought my 2011 Sorento V6 used with 20,000 on it. Must have been warm when I first started it up it because it had no noise. I have the car about 6 months and complained to dealer about an engine knock on start up cold and after it sits for 2 + hours. they say its NORMAL. R U kidding me ! I believe my noise is main bearings until they build up oil pressure, about 5 seconds. I'm not done with dealer yet!

 

[RentoEX]

I bought my 2011 Sorento V6 used with 20,000 on it. Must have been warm when I first started it up it because it had no noise. I have the car about 6 months and complained to dealer about an engine knock on start up cold and after it sits for 2 + hours. they say its NORMAL. R U kidding me ! I believe my noise is main bearings until they build up oil pressure, about 5 seconds. I'm not done with dealer yet!

Record and post what you are hearing on Youtube for us to hear. Just so we can get a better understanding. I believe what you may be hearing is the Variable Valve Timing system priming up. Mine and every other V6 is the same way.

 

[kobi411]

this is true, change to synthetic if you want it to disappear faster..

 

[SkidRoe]

The Final Solution

I figured I would give an update:

I tried to trade it in to another dealer earlier this year, being totally up front with the engine issue. Once they saw the warranty note that had been posted on this vehicle, they wouldn't touch it.

In the interim, I have upped the dosage of Lucas Oil treatment, and it has not got any worse - may have even helped a bit. My plan was to just drive it until it blew up, then deal with the carnage at that time.

I recently have been getting a barage of e-mails from the original dealer, wanting me to trade it in on a new one. I had been ignoring these, as they looked like form letters to me.

Then I got a call from the original dealer and they stated that they wanted my car. I explained to them the situation with the engine that their service department had forced upon me. I don't know what they did, but they are allowing me to trade for a new 2013 Sorento. I pick it up on Friday.

Yes, my payments are going up a bit, but at least I am no longer am living with a time bomb.

Cheers,
SR

 

[GregsKia]

I don't think it's the chain tensioners you are hearing. My Sedonas and Amanti have the start-up clatter, too. I have been to the center of one of my 3.8L Lambdas (same design as the 3.5, just a bigger bore), and I can tell you that the tensioners are a ratcheting design. They keep tension on the chains even after the engine has been shut off. The start up noise can be attributed to the mechanical bucket-style lifters. Since there is no way to compensate for the amount of lash caused by the cold state of the lifters, it makes a ticking sound for the first few seconds after start up. The Theta and Gamma 4 cylinders make this same sound...yet the new Nu engines (1.8L in Elantra and 2.0L in 2012+ Soul) don't make this sound at start-up, they have hydraulic lifters that keep the lash at basically nothing. However, a knocking sound is not normal. I'm glad they are working with you on it!

 

[MikDee]

Check out this thread:
http://www.kia-forums.com/2011-xm-sorento-forum/85353-cold-engine-knock-3-5l-v6.html

Starting your engine cold, with this condition, is causing undo wear eventually leading to mild, or serious, wear issues, like main bearing wear IMO.

 

[RentoEX]

Check out this thread:
http://www.kia-forums.com/2011-xm-sorento-forum/85353-cold-engine-knock-3-5l-v6.html

Starting your engine cold, with this condition, is causing undo wear eventually leading to mild, or serious, wear issues, like main bearing wear IMO.

Not so much main bearing wear. The top end is what is getting little to no oil pressure for the first few seconds.

 

[MikDee]

Not so much main bearing wear. The top end is what is getting little to no oil pressure for the first few seconds.

Yes, eventual rod, or main bearing wear, cylinder wear, as well. Top end, bottom end, anyplace in the engine that is not getting the proper oil pressure, at start up, or at any time. "Like the hip bone connected to the thigh bone, etc."

It's all connected Rento, lol

It all depends upon how long, or often? or when, or where? the excess friction heat starts to do it's damage.

I am not a kid, I have 50+ years experience maintaining, repairing, & modifying, cars, boats I/O & outboard, motorcycles, and small engines, basically anything mechanical.

I have owned approx. 70 cars, a dozen + boats, and 1/2 dozen motorcycles, all different makes.

At one time as a young guy, I owned a factory "track only" designated 1963 Plymouth Sport Fury "Ramcharger 426/425hp

(Yes, in 1963 you could buy a new Dodge Coronet, or Plymouth Fury ramcharger 426/425hp right from the showroom, setup by the factory to be "track only" brand new!)

So, I do know a little about vehicles, and how they work