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Discussion Starter #1
I have 2011 AWD EX 2.4 cyl Theta 2 engine and I'm getting those 2 codes. I had P0014&P0011 permanent codes when I scanned the car.I did replace the exhaust VVT Solenoid as when I was checking it I broke it off. I put in a Dorman 917-230 and now I still have the P0011 and P0014 permanents codes as well as P0014 confirmed and P0014 pending code but I don't have the P0011 code so far. I looked at the adv spark timing and it ranges from 6-9 degrees at idle. What should it be? Should it be moving at idle? Is there anything else to check before I look into getting the timing chain replaced. The engine starts fine and seems to run fine as well. It has power (Not as much as our 2005 6 cyl 4WD) Please help! Thanks!
 

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Was the intake VVT solenoid clean and functioning correctly? What's the oil maintenance history of your vehicle, including oil type/viscosity and filter make, and when was the most recent oil change done?
 

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Thanks for your help! I just brought the car used 2 week ago, so I don't know the history of the oil change however the oil was real real dark so I did change it and I used 5-20w Mobile Oil and a Fram oil filter. The oil is not pure clean now but much much lighter now. The Solenoid broke while trying to get it out (The one closest to the fire wall) so I replaced it with a Dorman. I didn't take out the Intake (closest to the fan) yet but should I as well? I did check resistance and it was ok 7.6 Ohms. I did read if you disconnect the wire, the timing should chgange but if not change, then its that OCV. Please let me know.
 

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Definitely remove the intake solenoid, check the condition, and do a function test by applying power directly to it. With an unknown oil maintenance history, I also recommend doing 2-3 very short interval oil changes, trying to clean out any engine sludge which may be there as a result of poor maintenance by the previous owner(s).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ok will do. Also is there an issue with using a non KIA oil filter? I have a Fram oil filter installed now. And is the Mobile 5w-20 oil brand ok?
 

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Many different opinions on using a non O.E.M. filter. I owned a KIA 03 3.5 Sorento for 11 years and used KIA, Fram, Wix, Purolator, NAPA TECH 2000(Walmart) and never had a problem. Others will tell you ONLY USE O.E.M.
Mobil is fine and so are a myriad of other brand oil out there. Just use the viscosity specified and follow the oil change schedule and you will be fine.
 

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Many different opinions on using a non O.E.M. filter. I owned a KIA 03 3.5 Sorento for 11 years and used KIA, Fram, Wix, Purolator, NAPA TECH 2000(Walmart) and never had a problem. Others will tell you ONLY USE O.E.M.
Mobil is fine and so are a myriad of other brand oil out there. Just use the viscosity specified and follow the oil change schedule and you will be fine.
My opinion as well, with just one thing to add. Kia/Hyundai have published TSBs stating that some non-OEM oil filters do not perform according to their specs. However, this information has never been confirmed by another source (that I'm aware of), and the automakers have also not provided a list of specific filters which they consider to have issues. So you can take this or leave it, as you choose.
 

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Update- I had a friend with a scanner test the VVT Solenoids while in the car. The exhaust which is new, clicked and sound good. the Intake had a very soft click and sounded like its was very weak (I took it out and cleaned it up as well and tested outside the car and seemed intermittently it moved) so I ordered a new brand name unit and it should be coming late next week. What I don't understand is I'm just getting the P0014 code now (only code now)which points to the exhaust side (but I replaced the exhaust VVT) but when I test it using a Snap-On scanner and listening to the clicks, its seems in reverse order. Meaning I replaced the exhaust solenoid which I thought was the one near the firewall (P0014) and (P0011) is the intake near the front of the engine near the fan. So I don't get the P0011 anymore, now just the P0014 which states its the exhaust solenoid which I replaced but haven't replaced the intake yet until it comes next week. So it seems crossed to me but the wires are at a length the looks correct and the fit in the position. Any ideas?
 

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Update- I had a friend with a scanner test the VVT Solenoids while in the car. The exhaust which is new, clicked and sound good. the Intake had a very soft click and sounded like its was very weak (I took it out and cleaned it up as well and tested outside the car and seemed intermittently it moved) so I ordered a new brand name unit and it should be coming late next week. What I don't understand is I'm just getting the P0014 code now (only code now)which points to the exhaust side (but I replaced the exhaust VVT) but when I test it using a Snap-On scanner and listening to the clicks, its seems in reverse order. Meaning I replaced the exhaust solenoid which I thought was the one near the firewall (P0014) and (P0011) is the intake near the front of the engine near the fan. So I don't get the P0011 anymore, now just the P0014 which states its the exhaust solenoid which I replaced but haven't replaced the intake yet until it comes next week. So it seems crossed to me but the wires are at a length the looks correct and the fit in the position. Any ideas?
I'm not familiar with your model, but most engines in this layout have the exhaust manifold in front just behind the radiator and cooling fan, and the intake closest to the firewall.
 

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I wouldn't be overly concerned at this point about the codes possibly not matching the doc. The bottom line is that one code went away when you replaced the first solenoid. And, with the other being diagnosed as probably on the way out (good work on that!), the hope is the remaining code will be eliminated as well. It wouldn't be the first time that an automaker made a mistake with the OBD specs. But if the code doesn't go away with the new part, then you'll have to get back in and dig around some more.

And although I don't normally repeat what I've already said, I'd urge you to change the oil and filter on this vehicle a few times in quick succession. It's not a common thing for both OCVs to fail like yours did, and IMO there's a very good chance that failure is evidence of significant sludge in this engine, due to poor oil maintenance by the PO. I wouldn't use one of those engine flush products, just clean it up with any good regular motor oil. Spend a small amount of $$ now, in the hope of avoiding a much larger expense down road.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok I will update when the part arrives and I install it. I'll also change the oil as recommended as well. Thanks
 

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The intake part came in and I installed it p/n#24355-2G000 Oil FLow Control Valve Intake. I drove the car a few miles (No MIL) stopped at the store. Started back up and then the check engine light came back on. I scanned it and got P0014 1/5 stored. Nothing depending or confirmed just stored codes of P0014. I also notice the intake solenoid which is a KIA/Hyundai brand is shorter than the one I took out but I compared it to the dorman one at the local store and they are the same size so I was guessing someone but the wrong one in initially. I guess the next thing is to change the oil with a KIA oil filter? Otherwise I'm not sure what is going on with the car.
 

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About the oil filters, here is a link to the TSB: https://static.oemdtc.com/TSB/2012-114.pdf Here is a lengthy discussion about the filters and TSB: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2620653

When this first popped up, I did some checking about it. The first thing is that the V-6 engine uses a cartridge type filter while the 4 cylinder uses a spin-on filter. Notable difference between the two are the internal pressure relief by-pass valve. The valve is built into the spin-on filter and is not part of the cartridge filter. I found info that stated that the KIA spin-on had a 5-7 psi by-pass pressure valve while replacement filters that I checked at the time had a 10-13 psi by-pass. This could account the TSB KIA put out about the upper engine noise on cold starts. I looked at the Wix brand filter that was listed for the 4 cylinder KIA and found it to be the same part number as a filter they made for a Honda. The filter works but is not made to KIA specification.

The main thing here is to change your oil and filter often. Do not push it to the 7,000 miles, I change mine between 2,000 and 3,000 miles. Yes, I pay more for oil and filters by paying up front and hope I do not have to be paying for higher priced items on the back side as mileage adds up on my KIA.

Did you check the camshaft sensor and wiring? Most cars have them when they have variable cam timing.
 

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These codes are related to cam-crank correlation. In short crankshaft and camshaft voltage signals are not lining up. They are commonly associated with the oil control valves. However they can be also cam phaser issues, and timing chain timing. I would pull the valve cover to check that the timing chain has not skipped a tooth. I wouldnt trust that Dorman ocv , ive never have had much luck with dorman products.
 

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What is the mileage or km on this KIA? It is possible that the cam phaser is stuck in the advanced position. With the proper scanner (not code reader), it would be possible to check the exhaust camshaft position and make sure that the signals to the control valve are properly changing and that the camshaft position is properly changing. This could then tell you if the problem is electrical or mechanical. The KIA GDS scanner can be used for this troubleshooting. Your going to spend a lot of money and time guessing what the problem is or take it to a shop that has the equipment and knowledge to do the troubleshooting. If you have check all the wiring and re-seated all the related connectors back to the ECM, you would properly be further ahead taking it to a garage to have diagnosis done to find the problem. Sometime if you do not have the proper tools, you can only do so much. You need to read the freeze frame data from the sensor and the PWM signal from the ECM to the control valve to check for the proper values. If the PWM signal is moving as it should but the sensor freeze frame data is not, you could have a stuck phaser on the camshaft. Depending on the mileage of the car, your timing chain, chain guide rails, chain tensioner could also be bad or in poor shape. The camshaft sensor will tell the ECM where it is at and the ECM will try to get the camshaft to the correct position by signaling (PWM signal) to the control valve to send more oil pressure to the phaser to move the camshaft to the proper position. The code is because one of these things is not happening. Here is a link to a TSB about CVVT OIL CONTROL VALVE INSPECTION and note the very start of the "INSPECTION FLOW DIAGRAM": https://www.autocodes.com/uploads/hyundai/09-EM-002.pdf
 

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.... Your going to spend a lot of money and time guessing what the problem is or take it to a shop that has the equipment and knowledge to do the troubleshooting. ....
You have a much higher opinion than I do about the typical shop's ability to resolve this type of issue at a reasonable cost; and also not much faith in a dedicated and reasonably intelligent DIYer to learn what he needs to know and do the job himself. But you're entitled to your view, just like everyone else is, and I'm not going to carry on a pointless argument about it, so just carry on.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The car has 75k miles on it. I have ordered the OEM oil filter and it should be in next week so I'll change the oil again but this time use the OEM filter. I'll have to find the procedure for checking the camshaft sensor. The car starts right up and seems to run ok so I didn't think it was the timing but I will check to see how much the dealer will charge to do a diags only on it before I pull the valve covers off. I had a friend come over with a SNAP-ON scanner and we tested the OCV's (before I replaced the intake OCV) and the exhaust clicked fine as it was loud (i had installed a new Dorman OCV) so we expected that one to be ok. Then the intake and it was a faint click so I replaced that one with a OEM OCV. Tested and the light came back on with 5 stored codes (P0014) no pending or waiting for confirmation codes at this point. One thing was implied was to remove the Dorman OCV which seems to be working (Exhaust) and replace with an OEM OCV? However when I first started I was getting both codes (P0011 & P0014) now with both replaced, I only get the P0014 code but when the scan tool tests the exhaust OCV the front OCV clicks (test) and when I test the intake, the rear (closes) to the firewall clicks. I'll confirm all of this again when the test is available for me to use and I'll let you know. Thanks!
!
 
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