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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2009 Borrego and the check engine light is on...

I took my Cen tech code reader and it read the following 5 error codes:

Error Code 1/5:
P0171 = System Too Lean Bank 1

Error Code 2/5:
P0017 = Crankshaft Position Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor B

Error Code 3/5:
P0015 = B Camshaft Position Timing Over- Retarded Bank 1

Error Code 4/5:
P0018 = Crankshaft Position Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2 Sensor A

Error Code 5/5:
P0018 = Crankshaft Position Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2 Sensor A

Any ideas of what these codes mean and what I need to do to fix these issues?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the PDF file...

The error code suggests "Crankshaft Position Camshaft Position Correlation..."

Is the problem usually the sensor needs to be replaced or is there something else
that would throw this off?

The engine runs a little rough and I am not sure if this is why the sensor is reading
this or if it is running rough because the sensor is reporting this error and the system
is adjusting itself accordingly...

I am going on a long trip in a week and not sure what to do about this as I would like to
avoid problems but need to know how serious this is first...


Thanks
 

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Those codes could be a sensor/connector/wiring but could also be caused by an actual physical timing issue (although misfire codes would be expected if that were the case). Did all of this happen suddenly with no prior problems? Any maintenance or work done recently (i.e. before this started)? In any case, you need to get the problem resolved before taking it on a long trip. A compression test is fairly easy to do, and would hopefully eliminate this being a timing issue.
 

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Thanks for the PDF file...

The error code suggests "Crankshaft Position Camshaft Position Correlation..."

Is the problem usually the sensor needs to be replaced or is there something else
that would throw this off?

The engine runs a little rough and I am not sure if this is why the sensor is reading
this or if it is running rough because the sensor is reporting this error and the system
is adjusting itself accordingly...

I am going on a long trip in a week and not sure what to do about this as I would like to
avoid problems but need to know how serious this is first...


Thanks
Most often, but not always, the sensor is alerting the system to something out of synch, and not a failed sensor.

What's your mileage and service history, how often is the oil and oil filter changed, what oil, what oil filter, ........

It could be the variable valve timing mechanism that's not working.


Please update your profile detail, ......at least location and vehicle.


Click on “User CP” near the top right of the page.



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Discussion Starter #6
The check engine light comes on for a while and the vehicle idles rough and has a lack of power and then the check engine light goes off and it runs fine.

This has been going on and off for the past month or so with no maintenance performed lately except oil changes.
There is ~ 112k miles on the vehicle now...

I usually have the oil changed every 3k - 6k miles and use non synthetic oil...
 

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The check engine light comes on for a while and the vehicle idles rough and has a lack of power and then the check engine light goes off and it runs fine.

This has been going on and off for the past month or so with no maintenance performed lately except oil changes.
There is ~ 112k miles on the vehicle now...
What oil, what oil filter (OEM?) and what interval?

Please update your profile detail, ......at least location and vehicle.


Click on “User CP” near the top right of the page.



.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
standard (non-synthetic) 10w30 Valvoline and filter from the Valvoline instant oil change place.

Does this matter regarding these engine error codes?
 

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standard (non-synthetic) 10w30 Valvoline and filter from the Valvoline instant oil change place.

Does this matter regarding these engine error codes?
There's a few Kia models that are sensitive to the oil filter, and because of this you'll find most around here advise playing safe and sticking with OEM filters.

Models with variable valve timing are very sensitive to oil and filter used.

The error codes suggest a problem with timing, so I'd suggest an oil change using a high grade fully synthetic and OEM oil filter - it might resolve it, but it the variable valve timing servo's are the problem, the might need taking off for cleaning.


http://www.obd-codes.com/p0015

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/p0015-obd-ii-trouble-code-camshaft-position-b-timing-over-retarded-bank-1-by-jay-safford
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thanks Ron

I had the oil changed a couple of weeks ago at the Super Lube oil change place in
town as I thought it might help with this engine light problem.

I also had them do a flush where they put some Penray 7512 Oil System Cleaner in
the engine for 5 minutes before they drained and changed the oil. Not sure if the engine
was running or not during this 5 minute flush.

The receipt says that they used tech select SAE 5w2api gf-5/sn oil and a m5848 oil filter.

This didn't help but the check engine light has gone off and on a few times since then and
it will stay off for 20 minutes or more at a time. Sometimes it is off when I start the car and
will turn on anywhere from a minute to 5 minutes after I start the car.

Not sure if I can get it into the shop before my long trip next weekend but I do need to use
this vehicle for the trip.
 

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One thing WORRIES me a lot....
Have you replaced the timing belt ...when and at what mileage?
If a tooth or two have come off of the timing belt you will get codes similar to what you are posting...
Going on a trip with a bad timing belt could prove disastrous.... If it breaks you WILL trash the engine far away from home...
I hope you get this before you leave...
Dave
 

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If you had sludge build-up, and an engine flush was used, then its good practice to repeat oil and oil filter changes at short intervals thereafter until you're confident that the dislodged sludge is cleared.

I would get an oil change done using a high quality full synth oil and OEM filter change done and assess it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
No I haven't had the timing belt changed...

Does this seem like a timing belt or sludge build up?

If it was a timing belt, wouldn't the
engine light stay on and not turn off every so often?
 

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I assumed that your model had a timing chain, and that's why I was leaning towards an oil and variable valve timing issue - check your owners manual service section for the timing belt change interval, and if its not there, that would confirm that its a timing chain.

I also had them do a flush where they put some Penray 7512 Oil System Cleaner
That rings alarm bells for me - if this was deemed necessary, that's bad for any engine, but worse for those with variable valve timing.
 

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If you are the original owner and have never replaced the timing belt you are sitting on a ticking time bomb...
It may have a timing belt or a timing chain depending on the engine...
https://www.openbay.com/timing-belt-replacement/2009-kia-borrego
A long trip (say 500~1000 miles from home and the belt breaks you are in for some serious problems...
A badly worn belt can/will cause changes in the timing that may come and go...(from the slop in the belt)...

I also am not a fan of having the engine oil passages flushed...The loosened material may plug a critical passage in a bearing journal and cause bearing failure..

Look into "if" you have a timing belt...
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I don't know if my vehicle has a timing chain or a timing belt. It has the 4.6L V6 engine...

The owners manual does not mention how often the timing belt or chain (whichever it is ) should be replaced
so I have no idea if 110K miles is excessive or not...

This morning the engine light was off while I put over 15 miles on it and half a dozen engine starts and then it came on
again. If the timing belt or chain (whichever it is) is bad, would it not light the engine light?

So I leave on my trip next Sunday which leaves me with a week to figure this out or attempt to get it in to the Kia dealer
for servicing but would like to know my options or how critical of a situation is...

thanks for your inputs
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I just looked on rock auto and they show a timing chain for the this model and I was mistaken, it is a 3.8L V6

Do timing chains go as little as 110k miles?
 

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I would go with my suggestion in post 12.

A timing chain will last well in excess of 110K miles, .....IF the engine is maintained correctly - the timing chain tensioner is hydraulic using engine oil, so just like the variable valve timing needs good clean oil so does the tensioner.

You haven't replied to the question why you saw the need for the engine flush.
 

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I would go with my suggestion in post 12:


A timing chain will last well in excess of 110K miles, .....IF the engine is maintained correctly - the timing chain tensioner is hydraulic using engine oil, so just like the variable valve timing needs good clean oil so does the tensioner.

You haven't replied to the question why you saw the need for the engine flush.
The instant oil change place that I took it to a couple of weeks ago noticed that I
had exceeded 5k miles since my last oil change and suggested that I do the flush...

So, should I buy the filter at the KIA dealer or can I trust NAPA would have an adequate
filter?


What brand of oil should I use, Synthetic 5w20 , any specific brand?
 

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That quick lube place did a sales number on you - anyway, if an engine needs a flush, its got to have short interval follow-up oil and oil filter changes to remove the debris and sludge that the flush loosened.


I personally use Mobil-1 fully synthetic but any reputable oil brand would be fine, and select the oil weight listed in your owners hand book.

To be on the safe side, I always use OEM oil filters.
 
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