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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

First post here, so I'll try to be a Good Member and be detailed. I've done plenty of Googling before joining and kept seeing the site in the results, so...

I've had my 115bhp CRDI for just over a year. Since I bought it, there has always been a bit of a flat spot under acceleration when cold at around 1800 rpm. However, in the last month it has gotten progressively worse. At first the single flat spot became several, and when I drove with the window down I could hear the turbo spinning up and then being cut off. I assumed it was bad diesel as it started after filling up from almost empty. I put some STP cleaner in it and things were ok for a few days.

The flat spots have gotten bigger (after several full tanks from different garages), until finally I realized it must be in limp mode despite having no check engine light. There is no turbo at all, and it won't rev past 2800 rpm. After some more Googling I cleaned out the MAF sensor and replaced the air filter, but it made no difference.

Yesterday I took delivery of an OBD2 module, and it told me that the following errors were logged:

P0098 (IAT Sensor 2 Circuit High)
P0238 (Turbo Boost Sensor 'A' Circuit High)
P0069 (Manifold Absolute Pressure - Barometric Pressure Correlation)

When driving, the intake temp is stuck at -40°C and the intake pressure is fixed at 37.0 PSI. Having found the thread "KIA Cee'd CRDI intake air temperature sensor" on here, it looks like the IAT sensor might be the problem.

I took this off today and cleaned it, as it was quite dirty. I also cleaned the connectors with contact cleaner. After putting it back together, the code which I thought was unrelated - P0069 - has cleared! However, everything else is the same.

One thing I have noticed is that this thing, located up the hose from the intercooler, has a broken collar. I'm not sure what it is, but I think it's a butterfly of some description as the engine seems to choke if I close it:


As you might have guessed, I'm no mechanic! I'm leaning towards diagnosing the MAP sensor as dead, but am very grateful for any advice!

Gary
 

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09 kia spectra ex,04 Neon,04 Chry. T&C, 08 Pontiac G6 gt
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Welcome to the Forum from the USA!
From your description and picture, that looks like the turbo waste gate valve and is definitely broken. We don't have the Ceed here or that diesel that I can think of here. BUT for any turbo motor the wastegate operation is very important to engine running. Good luck, and hope some Ceed members can help you out! :)
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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16 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Welcome to the Forum from the USA!
From your description and picture, that looks like the turbo waste gate valve and is definitely broken. We don't have the Ceed here or that diesel that I can think of here. BUT for any turbo motor the wastegate operation is very important to engine running. Good luck, and hope some Ceed members can help you out! :)
Hi, thank you for the welcome and the quick reply! I think it definitely leads towards the turbo, but I'm not sure if this is the waste gate actuator as all of the replacements I can see are slightly different in appearance - they don't have the rubber boot and the connector at the bottom is longer:



However, I've since found numerous threads about this actuator breaking and failing in the open position - I guess this makes sense, as when I 'actuated' it myself the engine stuttered like it wasn't getting enough air. Perhaps I was closing it and messing with the vacuum?
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #5
Ok... I think I've spent the day barking up the wrong tree. The picture I posted apparently shows the 'Air control valve', which is basically a throttle body used to kill the engine among other things. That certainly explains why the engine dies when i press it :whistling:



Once I realised this wasn't likely to be anything to do with the problem, I re-read the original thread I had found and realised that my MAF sensor does indeed have a five-wire connection, so I decided to see what happens when I disconnect it. When connected, my OBD software shows this:



Note the lack of boost data, and the two errors mentioned in my first post. When I disconnected the cable from the MAF sensor, suddenly:



I have boost again! So, my educated guess is that the IAT incorporated into the MAF is dead, and is causing the ECU to apply limp mode.

So, only two questions remain:

1. I need a new MAF sensor, right?
2. Will I harm the engine by running with it disconnected? I've read alternately that the car will refuse to start or the ECU will apply a 'known safe' map. It clearly starts, so does it default to something?
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #6
A little update on this, as things briefly looked better - I drove to work on Monday and suddenly had an intermittently working turbo. It seemed to be inconsistent and not quite right, so I plugged in the OBD2 reader again when I got home and saw that the IAT meter was intermittently working. Basically, when I had a reading I had boost, and when it dropped back to -40°c I had none.

I am planning on finding my multimeter and checking that the voltage towards the MAF is consistent, and will probably buy a new MAF if it is. On the off chance that the wiring itself looks like a problem, can anyone let me know where the other end of it is connected? I haven't yet been able to trace it.
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #8
New MAF arrived this morning and was fitted. I drove to a local city and back today (around 90 miles in total) and found that, although the engine is massively more responsive and perky, it is still in limp mode and the IAT sensor still reports -40. The error codes remain.

Torque Pro does report (as in the screenshot above) that 'N' fault-free drive cycles need to be completed for these to clear. Does this mean I just need to wait for the ECU to decide that things are actually ok before it resets the sensor?
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #9
After about 160km, the car suddenly decided it was fixed! I had a blissful day of normal performance yesterday.

Today, it's gone back a notch and is unable to decide between no boost and all of the boost. On the basis that the MAF/IAT sensor is new and clearly worked for 100% of yesterday and 50% of today, I'm going to try and fish out the other end of the cable and clean it, and - if i can get the whole thing out - check for breaks or shorts. Aside from this, I'm out of ideas.

Have no other Cee'd owners had problems like this?
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #10
A short update for any still reading this - the car stayed in limp mode with no turbo since the last post, so I took it to the local Kia garage and had them run their diagnostic on it. They told me the MAP sensor was dead, so I've bought an fitted a new one.

It has been five days since this - the car is a lot perkier, but still reporting two fault codes and still in limp mode. I'm on the verge of giving up, to be honest. Nobody on the internet or in the dealer seems to really understand this kind of problem, so I have a nasty feeling this has become a money pit.
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #11
Because I don't know when to give up, I purchased a new fuel filter and fitted it today with the help of this excellent guide - I have had the car for over a year and so it's at least a year since this was done.

The diesel that came out of the filter did have crap in it, which makes sense. The new filter has added to the continual improvements in performance since I started, but the turbo basically still spins up and then cuts out. My next suspicion on the list (it has been a big list!) is the intake hose, as the wire clamp at the turbo end won't tighten properly - the thread seems to be broken somewhere, and it only tightens up enough to gently hold it on - it's still possible to turn it. So, the next thing on the fix list is a new clamp, and - failing that - a new hose.
 

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The diesel that came out of the filter did have crap in it, which makes sense. The new filter has added to the continual improvements in performance since I started, but the turbo basically still spins up and then cuts out. My next suspicion on the list (it has been a big list!) is the intake hose, as the wire clamp at the turbo end won't tighten properly - the thread seems to be broken somewhere, and it only tightens up enough to gently hold it on - it's still possible to turn it. So, the next thing on the fix list is a new clamp, and - failing that - a new hose.[/quote]

i was just wondering if you made any progress with this as I have the same car with the same issue, and so far have tried the same things as you have to remedy the situation with no avail, that's when I ended up here lol. have you come to a conclusion?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
i was just wondering if you made any progress with this as I have the same car with the same issue, and so far have tried the same things as you have to remedy the situation with no avail, that's when I ended up here lol. have you come to a conclusion?
I have made progress, but still not completely fixed. Since the last update I have reliable low-level boost, but it still cuts out and sometimes drops into limp mode when high boost is requested by the ECU.

Having done some more research, I have narrowed it down to either a vacuum leak to the turbo vane actuator, or simply a build up of carbon on the vanes in the turbo. I can pull the actuator by hand and can see it open and close when the car is started, so the next step is either a can or bottle of Wynn's turbo cleaner to see if clearing off some of the buildup of crap on the turbine side helps. If it doesn't, I'll need to hunt for a vacuum tester.

To sum up, I've worked through the following so far and one or more of them got me to where it is now:

- Replaced air filter
- Replaced MAF sensor
- Replaced MAP sensor (the one between the manifold and intercooler=
- Replaced fuel filter
- Replaced clamp on turbo intake end of air hose
- 3 bottles of diesel system cleaner
- A few tanks of premium diesel (probably had more effect than the system cleaner lol)
 

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Glad to see your making head way with it, for the most part I'm at the same point as you are, will try and look at the vacuum levels over the weekend. Thanks for you very detailed posts, helping me down the right track
 

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Update us

Hi there! Please do update us with any progress you make, I am a new owner of a 2010 EcoDynamics model and am experiencing similar symptoms though not as severe. I'll be interested to see any developments from you!

Thanks for all the updates so far!
 

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2009 Cee'd SW 1.6 CRDI (115 ps)
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Discussion Starter #16
Glad to see your making head way with it, for the most part I'm at the same point as you are, will try and look at the vacuum levels over the weekend. Thanks for you very detailed posts, helping me down the right track
Hi there! Please do update us with any progress you make, I am a new owner of a 2010 EcoDynamics model and am experiencing similar symptoms though not as severe. I'll be interested to see any developments from you!

Thanks for all the updates so far!
Hi - thanks for letting me know the thread is useful!

My in-laws had the bonnet up on their Mercedes B200 last weekend, and I noticed that their turbo is a) conveniently at the front of the engine, and b) also a VNT like ours. I took the opportunity to waggle their actuator and noticed that it was much, much easier to move than mine! If you can reach the turbo on your Kia, a rough guide is that you should be able to push the actuator up without it physically hurting :D

This put me straight to the 'stuck vanes' theory, so I went to my local Wynn's distributor for Germany and found they didn't have any Diesel Turbo Cleaner, haven't had any for weeks, and didn't know when they would have any. I mailed Wynn's, and they told me they might be shipping some to distributors by the end of this month...

So, back to research. It seems that Wynn's Extreme EGR Cleaner can be used in the same way (i.e. sprayed into the turbo inlet), cleans the turbo vanes on its way to the EGR valve, and (helpfully) cleans the EGR valve too. I am ordering some this week and will have a go this weekend - I'll let you know how this goes.
 
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