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Hi- My wife's 2002 Rio Cinco has intermittent check engine light/rough running problems. Every time we have it checked at Autozone, the problem is "misfire, #3 cylinder". The dealer has installed new plugs, wires, a new fuel filter, and cleaned the injectors. I installed a new gas cap, but still the problem remains- Usually when the car is first started, within one mile of driving, it misses and stumbles. We pull off the road, shut the car off for a few seconds, and re start it, and it runs fine. I understand the problem could be the coils or fuel pump, I need some help from the experts here to tell the dealership- it's maddening taking this car back to be repaired for the same problem every time it's seemingly fixed. Thanks for your time- Brett in Ohio (2002 Rio Cinco)
 

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2003 Kia Sorento
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Is this happening on unusually rough roads?

Does this happen ALL of the time, every time on your first mile?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No, the road is smooth, it used to happen about 90% of the time on the initial drive of the morning, after the dealership cleaned the fuel injectors and installed new spark plug wires, we drove the car for two days with no problems 'til this morning. My wife started the car for work, and within the first mile of her drive, the check engine light came on and the car ran rough. We took it to Autozone, and the code reader said "misfire #3 cylinder". -Brett
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi- After another trip to the dealership,(number 6 or so) supposedly fixed the problem, the very next day after driving approximately 1/2 mile, the check engine light came on and the car was running rough. I pulled over, shut the car off for about one minute and restarted- check engine light was off, and running smooth. Every morning after this, my wife has had the same exact problem on her way to work. I have filed a complaint with the BBB, and Kia motors america. Anyone out there experienced this problem of "misfire #3 cylinder" that seemingly can't be repaired? Dealership (Dutch Miller- Barboursville, WV) has replaced the spark plugs, spark plug wires (twice), supposedly sealed up two vacuum leaks, cleaned the injectors (twice), replaced the fuel pump, and evacuated and recharged the air conditioning, also changed the fuel filter twice within 15,000 miles. The problem started about 44,000 miles and after numerous trips to the dealership for repair, still exists at 60,500 miles. Any advice appreciated. Thanks- Brett in Ohio
 

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2001 Kia Rio
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Hmmmm...I wonder if this problem was ever fixed? My 2001 Rio is doing the same thing at 49,000 miles, except that it has a misfire on cylinder #4. I changed the fuel filter and plugs and have run fuel injector cleaner through the system, but it still does the same thing.

I had an '88 Ford Festiva (for those of you who don't know, it was also a Kia product) that had a similar problem for most of it's life. I kept it until almost 150,000 miles.

I think I'll just wait out this problem and see what it does. I'm leaning towards some sort of ignition problem right now.
 

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2004 Kia Rio 2011 Kia Sorento LX V6 AWD
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I would say the coil packs are arcing inside of themselves. Why would the dealership replace the same things twice after you complaining of they same problem and they had just changed them.. I would advise the dealership heavily to inspect the coil packs..

Dan
 

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Back here searching Forums again, I posted a few days ago about the coil being faulty.

Reading this thread, the car is doing the same exact thing as the last 2 people mentioned.

What has the coil pack replacement provided. I now get a CEL that stays on, car runs amazing when hot but stalls the same maner as above.

I now get a CEL and now has a code p0300 and p0302, multy cylinder misfire and #2 cilinder misfire.

New coil pack, new wires, 2nd set of plugs NGK platnums gapped to .030 spec being .027 and .0315. Car runs absolutly amazing now but with stalling when cold unless I restart.

Ignition system is ruled out unless something else is braught to my attention.

What I have found, when I braught the car in(running hot) without shutting off it maintains a dead cylinder miss with active code #2 cylinder misfire. Unbolted the air box and swung box out of the way, unplugged injector #2 and no difference at idle so I have no fuel injection at #2 cylinder, unplug #3 injector, idle drops due to running on 2 cylinders, plug #3 harness on #2 injecter, engine pics ups. Plug #2 harness on #3 injector no difference.

#2 injector harness plug for injector is fine, went through it with an ohm meter and all is good, just I am not getting a signal from the harness for number #2 injector.

Following the walk through sheet for misfire I am down to sensors, fuel pressure is good a 50+ psi, hav'nt ohmed the CKPS yet, says to check the PVC valve (have not yet) but cant see the PVC valve doing this and say to check vacume leak but dont see how this would affect it as well but will be checked tonight at the shop if its another slow night. Says to check and repair for Mass, CKPS, 02 sensor codes but none are present.

Anybody have any thaughts on this? I'm going to continue with my checks but the two questions are.

1. Is their an injector driver module for this car, if thier is where is it.

2. Or are these injectors driven off the ECM?? Which I think its located somewhat behind the fuse box, up in the dash.

I want to back pin the wire harness and see if I'm getting a signal for the injector from the ECM/injector drive module what ever it has.
I'll say, I plug in all the injectors, sshut off the car and imidiatly re-start it when hot, engine runs perfect.

I want to find this problem and its getting worse..........
 

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2004 Kia Rio 2011 Kia Sorento LX V6 AWD
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The injectors are driven off the ECM.. Check the spark and make sure you have a nice solid spark.. Then using a scopoe attach it to the wires for the #2 fuel injector and check the volatge signal pattern.. compare it with the other injectors.. Try the same with the wires plugged into the bottom of the coils..

Both ignition and fuel are timed and controlled by the ECM.. But I would say put it on a scope and find the issue first.

Dan
 

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2004riotuner said:
The injectors are driven off the ECM.. Check the spark and make sure you have a nice solid spark.. Then using a scopoe attach it to the wires for the #2 fuel injector and check the volatge signal pattern.. compare it with the other injectors.. Try the same with the wires plugged into the bottom of the coils..

Both ignition and fuel are timed and controlled by the ECM.. But I would say put it on a scope and find the issue first.

Dan

Spark is SOLID, as for scopping, that equipment is limited, I'm a transport truck. heavy equipment mechanic so lack a little equipment with automtive. Scanner I use is a snap on but I'm having difficulties with communication with the ECM's some time. Anyways, heading out to my budys shop before work and going to put a few hours into.

This is not my car but a friends can and the dealership has been telling her thier is nothing wrong with for the last 2 years.

On a side note, it only does it in the winter time..............
 

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people have said that they have had problems with platnums plugs i would try a different set of plugs.
 

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Raven1210 said:
people have said that they have had problems with platnums plugs i would try a different set of plugs.

I replaced 3 month old NGK's V-grove(conventionals) with these platnums, in the fall I was given this car and told to do a "tune up" so replaced all the filters, plugs and wires back in October, threw in the platnums 2 days ago figuring I had one bad plug, have had it happen but this is not the case.

With the platnums, not trying to argue, when the car is running good, it actually runs better then the conventinals. The parts guy told me they were pre-gapped which was not the case, they where at .036, had to bring them down to spec.
 

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O2 Sensors checked out fine, pcv valve fine, hose plumbing to the pcv valve is fine as thier was a TSB that the hoses may be easly mixed up between the 2 if someone worked on it and didnt pay attention.

Found a recall on ECM for stalling and could not find an update sticker in the engine bay for the re-program, I will phone the dealer.

Checked out CKPS, looks like its the one on the transmission housing, pinned out 2 and 3 which is supose to have 800-900 ohms, reading 3000+ ohms, pin 3 to ground supose to have <1ohm, reading open. Will confirm with another ohm meter..........no codes for CKPS so thats why I want to try another meter.

Another question, this car supose to have a camshaft position sensor, if thier is one where is it, cant seem to locate it, I'm pulling my info from alldata at work.
 

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2004 Kia Rio 2011 Kia Sorento LX V6 AWD
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The cam shaft sensor is locatedon the back side of the engine on the driverside, just underneath the valve cover mounted in the head. The ECM you are refering to is the Tranny Control Module which besically only controls the Tranny, I couldn't see it causing you to lose cylinders though.. But if It's out of spec have them replace it.

Dan
 

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Sorry, was not a recall, it was a campaign.........

Service Bulletin Number: 034 Replacement Bulletin Number:
NHTSA Item Number: 10005649 Date of Bulletin: 20040130
Failing Component: 061000 ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Date Added to File: 2004-03-09
Summary:
VOLUNTARY SERVICE CAMPAIGN SC034 TO REPROGRAM THE ENGINE CONTROL MODULE (ECM). VEHICLES EXPERIENCING STALLING DURING IDLING OR AT NEAR STOPPING CONDITIONS. LETTERS TO KIA SERVICE MANAGERS, DEALERS AND QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS SHEET. *TT

NHTSA TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETINS FOR 2001 KIA RIO- LemonFree.Com

it was to cover years from 01-03 and was free of charge. Although my symptoms are different it would likly not comply to me, I have the full campaign notes at my shop

Noticed last night the block heater is leaking now............I had to sit down and laugh
 

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Crank sensor is on order, at cold it measures 4.8 mega ohms. Hope this is it cause I'm giving her the car back whether its fixed or not. Shes been driving my car for this time and since she is a good friend I have not really been charging her for it cause shes a good friend and shes had to much of the run around and thiers only so much I'm going/can do.
 

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2004 Kia Rio 2011 Kia Sorento LX V6 AWD
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Crank sensor is not one of those things that kinda works.. Crank sensor either works or it doesn't and if it doesn't the car won't run.. I'm going to have to say it's not your issue..
 

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I understand what your saying but at this point in time I have checked everything you could imagine, what am I left with..........wiring and ECM. Wiring I highly doubt because it would do it all the time, summer, winter, hot or cold.

If it was the ECM, I have driven the car with the windows rolled down with heat off, the other night it was -40C. Made no difference on the stalling issues.

The other day the car would not start, 5 minutes later it fired up. what am I left with here...........fuel pump??? I checked it when the car was running fine and warm so..........

Could a sensor like this drop out, first hand I've had a camshaft position sensor drop out its signal on my 97 ford powerstroke. Engine would run, then die, then run., replaced the sensor and ran fine afterword. Its a little bias to say its this cause of the differences in the beasts but working with diesil electronics for the last 10 years I've seen some stupid things happen and I've leaned not to rule anything out.

As for the crank sensor itsself on this rio...........normal is 800-900ohms between pin 2-3. Pin 3 to drivetrain case, <1 ohm. What I have is an open circuit. Between pin 2-3 I have 4.8 m ohms.

Even if it is working, with these measurements, I am inclined to replaceing it because the sensor itself is breaking down internaly and the last thing my friend needs is to have her car break down on the highway with her 5 year old kid on -20c highs during the day cause the sensor took a shit.

Whatever happens the result will be posted, really whats left to check..........

I'm not trying to argue your point, I do understand what your saying, with the money she could have spent and has spent in paying a dealership in canada(95$/hr) to diagnose this thing, she doesnt have a problem with replaceing a crank sensor. Really, she has spent $100 for a coil pack that was for sure screwed anyways.........

Like said, not trying to argue with you and I apreciate you advise.
 

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Where in Canada is the car.. If it's close would you mind me taking a look at it with a scope?

Dan
 

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Has anybody come up with a solution to this problem? I am having the same issue, P0302 comes up only when cold. When it does come up, it runs TERRIBLE, completely lacks power. Although when it warms up it tends to run a better, but still misses.
 
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