[rfurlongsr]

My 2000 Kia one day just lost the normal amount of power to around 50 percent. I had recently had a code indicating that number 2 cylinder had misfired. I replaced the coils, wires, plugs and wiring harness. All was good and then two weeks later I had this sudden loss of power. It is important to note that I have "0" codes. None notta. After reading some forums and possible remedies, I have replaced the fuel filter and MAS air flow sensor in anticipation that they were bad and not throwing the codes. I swallowed my pride and took it to a very reputable mechanic. Being the honest mechanic that they are, they ran all kinds of tests and couldn't isolate the problem and after a week only charged me 50 bucks for running all of the tests. I am thinking that the timing belt may have jumped time, but I would think that I would have a cam sensor code. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[GottaCruise]

My 2000 Kia one day just lost the normal amount of power to around 50 percent. I had recently had a code indicating that number 2 cylinder had misfired. I replaced the coils, wires, plugs and wiring harness. All was good and then two weeks later I had this sudden loss of power. It is important to note that I have "0" codes. None notta. After reading some forums and possible remedies, I have replaced the fuel filter and MAS air flow sensor in anticipation that they were bad and not throwing the codes. I swallowed my pride and took it to a very reputable mechanic. Being the honest mechanic that they are, they ran all kinds of tests and couldn't isolate the problem and after a week only charged me 50 bucks for running all of the tests. I am thinking that the timing belt may have jumped time, but I would think that I would have a cam sensor code. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Greetings,

Welcome to the forum.

re: Cam Sensor DTC code - one would 'expect' the ECM to throw a code, however..

You will probably never see one - some ECM's, the Sporty in particular, have the ability to (self-adjust) to a (wide-range) of engine management variables - the ECM will attempt to self-compensate for any (mechanical) issue / will not throw a code.

--
I read you post with interest: when I was having issues 10-15k miles following a full TB repair done by a shop, the '00 Sporty here exhibited the same issues: misfire / poor fuel mileage / progress loss of power ..

After exposing / physically inspecting the full TB belt alignment,

I found the (I)ntake and (E)xhaust cams were 'pigeon-toed' one tooth off each; due to the misalignment, extra fuel was being burned, in-turn causing premature failure of the pre-cat. converter directly under the exhaust manifold, and primary (B1S1) O2 sensor, in the exhaust manifold..

So the problems were progressive, but the (root) cause was (Static) mechanical timing misalignment.

--
If you are going through the effort of checking mechanical timing, and you have the tools to do so, would also recommend removing the Crank timing gear and inspecting the crank snout & keyway, so you are confident all mechanical aspects of timing are in good condition..

The most important lesson I learned from my own repair experience was that the ECM will attempt to self-adjust for any mechanical issue related to timing - therefore it is -critical- that mechanical timing be verified, including the crank snout and keyway, when timing issues are suspect,

*And that any (sensor) testing is predicated on the vehicle having good electrical voltage (e.g. as shipped from the factory) - our Sportys are known to have grounding issues, due to exposed ground points rusting over time, in-turn causing (Main) and (Fuel Pump) relay failure - so I would also highly recommend cleaning up major ground points, and if suspect (lights dimming on power window/heater use, etc) to consider replacing both relays as a primary diagnostic step,

--
That mechanic that is helping you out is the -best- person to be discussing the above with.. I have not seen your Sporty - so please run the above by him, get his feedback, if above makes sense, cool.

If you have any questions, etc on above, post back, lots of good folks here on the forum, we'll try to help.

Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[rfurlongsr]

I can't thank you enough GottaCruise for the time you took to detail your reply. Your response is what I needed to persuade me to get to timing belt, to inspect it and see if it is indeed the problem. Interestingly, during all of this loss of power, at one point I did get an O2 sensor code and replaced the upstream sensor. I didn't mention it before because I didn't see how it was relevant. However, after reading your information, it could have been completely relevant. Again thank you, I will begin on this tonight. Have a good day.

 

[DavesSpectra]

rfurlongsr...
You came to the right place for your Sporty...
GottaCruse is right on as usual...I might add with out knowing the mileage on the car the Cats usually don't last much longer than 150k miles and will cause back pressure problems that will cause poor gas mileage and extremely poor performance... I did note that it "came on" pretty quickly so this may not be your problem...
The timing belt "could" have also caused your problem with like you said jumping a missing tooth... The woodruff key on the crank sensor and the crank pulley have been known to deform and allow timing to slip as "Gotta" mentioned also...

Another known problem is the "main" and "fuel pump" relays..the internal contacts will burn and pit causing a drop in voltage to the above circuits...
They are also "silent" problem makers (not throwing codes)..
Be careful of WHERE you purchase these relays...Get them at KIA/Hyundai dealers OR at rockauto.com... The local chain parts stores will sell you look alikes that have been proven not to work on Sportages and may add new problems...
If you have time use the search function in the sub-forums (1995~2002 Sportage) for your problems...We do not archive older posts and your problem(s) have been addressed many times before...
You are welcome to ask for help here and you WILL find people from all over the globe WANTING to help you...
Dave

 

[rfurlongsr]

Thank you to the both of you for your input. I do appreciate any information you provide. I spent a couple of hours last night getting to the timing belt, too the point that I can see the entire thing. The woodruff key is pointing straight up at the 12 o'clock position in the groove of the cog and the mark on the cog is directly straight up at the indicator point on the block. The intake cam mark is in perfect alignment with the mark on the backing plate, as is the exhaust. Bottom line, the belt and gears are all in their respected positions. Bummer, was hoping to find differently.

My Sportage is a 2000 EX 4X4 automatic with right at 100,000 miles. I bought it less than a year ago from a guy that is a heavy equipment mechanic who had replaced the timing belt and put on either a new or more than likely refurbished head (the head looks brand new and when I took all of the timing belt covers off the seals were also new). My hope was that maybe he had not tightened the tension pulley properly (a mistake I had made once as a teenager on my Mustang). Was not the case.

Checked both of the relays and they do not show any signs of arcing or deterioration either on the male spades and the female receptacles.

I keep reading about all of the people with clogged cats. However, the mechanic states that it looked replaced at some point, and previously (before I took it to him) out of desperation I had drilled two holes (approx 3/8 in diameter) in it to see if it relieves the pressure (I had read about this on a few forums). Did not help. So, I don't 100 percent rule out the cat, but I really don't think this is the problem.

Gentlemen, I am stumped at this point. Did I miss something so obvious that I can't see it? Can you think of something else that I have missed or haven't thought about? I appreciate any information you can provide. Thank you and have a good day.

 

[GottaCruise]

You are welcome - glad the info is helpful.

--
Dave brings up an excellent point: there is a wealth of info. available on the 1G Sporty forum here on the site, and the [Search] feature is your friend..

When I was at the same place you are now, reading the experience of others w/ the repair, with sage advice of members gave me the motivation and confidence to tackle the tear-down to check static mechanical timing also.

*Always will be grateful to Philip (aquanaut20) and Ron (ron1004) for their help when I went through my repair, and the many, many other folks who posted their experiences here and over on the 4x4wire forum (Thanks upyourkia) - too many to credit, but also most appreciated,

*And DavesSpectra, he gets the (gold-star) award here: he is most generous with his time and knowledge helping others on this site. Many Thanks, Dave.

--
We are also fortunate that Kia has a free website that allows owners to signup and access detailed repair info for their vehicle, kiatechinfo.com (see my sig), and we also have a copy of the full service manual available to us, links are posted in the 1G forum,

You will need basic tools: 3/8" and 1/2" metric sockets, a drain pan for coolant, containers, etc. .. And would highly recommend using Penetrating Lubricant (PB Blaster, Krohl, etc.) on exposed/rusted bolts to aid in removal at the start,

For the crank bolt, if you have access to Impact Tools, and a 5spd. trans, it's entirely possible to remove the crank bolt after pulling the radiator (so you have clearance to get the impact gun in position), if automatic, most folks fabricate a bracket to bolt to the harmonic balancer bolts to (lock) the crank in-place, allowing for removing / reinstalling & properly re-torquing the crank bolt to-spec. ,

--
Thankfully, the weather is warm again in NH, and there are leaves back on the shade-tree. I'll be doing my own stuff over the next several weeks, so I may not be here as often, but will be checking in as time permits to help when I can..

Best advice I can give is if you have any questions, or run into any issues during checking the TB, ask for help here: you will be glad you did.

Kind Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[rfurlongsr]

Thank you GottaCruise, but what I was describing was that I did check the TB and it is fine. This makes me even more confused about what the problem is. Also, I have been checking the Gen 1 forum and that is what I described in my post.

Glad it is warm up there in NH. I don't know how you all deal with the cold. Here in GA it is colder than I like it. Enjoy the weather.

 

[GottaCruise]

Ok, just read the follow-up post:

If you did not physically (remove) the timing belt, and (unbolt) the crank gear from the crankshaft, then the "key" you viewed was the outer casing of the timing gear.. This is FYI.

If timing is correct, then would recommend (confirming) good voltage to the coil pack lead, and some basic voltage checks to confirm good power to motor, passenger cabin, and frame..

And would recommend picking up a ODBII scanner that allows you to see (real-time) values reported by the ECM, that would be helpful,

*If the head is replacement, and you are at all unsure of mechanical condition, a compression test would help confirm basic integrity,

*A compression leak-down test would confirm valve/piston ring/injector integrity..

--
It might help if you could post some ODBII scanner data: Philip's posting in this thread:

http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1994-2002-sportage/92642-engine-problems-whoever-solves-gets-5-a-2.html

is exactly what is needed to tackle the issue w/ data, and not guessing..

Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[GottaCruise]

* Given the issue was sudden onset, I would recommend doing a full inspection of all vacuum ports, hoses, and caps on the Intake Manifold, including the port at the back of the manifold for the 4x4 solenoid, and the PCV valve and hose connections, this to rule out a vacuum leak is the issue cause..

 

[GottaCruise]

re: vacuum ports, this thread may be helpful:

http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1994-2002-sportage/88585-98-sportage-idle-rpm-problem.html

 

[aquanaut20]

You boys are doing a bang up job..

I have some medical issues that will keep me from the forum, I will however check in and assist when possible...

I would like to see the

• basic OBDII test completed,
• a full compression test, WOT,
• a complete fuel system test, and
• an exhaust system pressure test, must see <2.5psi @ 2500rpm

.....Philip

 

[macaveli]

hey buddy. just to confrirm again, car starts fine? does it crank a long time to start and do you need to push the accelerator to feed it to start up?

Is the car smoking? if yes, white or black smoke?
does it splutter while driving?
when you push your foot down to accelerate, does it hold back?

 

[DavesSpectra]

GottaCruse...
You are beating me to it on suggestions
The relays may still be causing problems...The problems "may" still exist as the contacts are inside the plastic case cover and usually not on the relay blades or socket...
As he also said you probably have not seen the "true" woodruff key with out removing the crankshaft pulley nut. There is a notch cut into the end of the crankshaft and also the pulley that the woodruff key sits in... There have been posts of the key/pulley/or the crankshaft being deformed allowing the timing to shift. Only visible inspection will tell.... although it is not a high percentage failure.
Dave

 

[rfurlongsr]

Thanks again to everyone providing input. Let me address some of your concerns or questions. The car starts fine and idles fine. When accelerating there is no sputtering or missing. It simply does not have a lot of power and struggles going up a hill and getting up to speed. It does smoke slightly at start up and it would be white.

Woodruff key: Last night I reassemble everything I removed to look at the timing belt integrity. In addition to everything lining up perfectly, it was easy to observe the woodruff key slot in the crank, the cog pulley and the key itself. All of which look like they should without any deformity.

@Auquanaut20, some of those items were performed by the mechanic that recently tested the car. While I do have a code reader with erasing ability, I have ordered a cable to connect to my laptop (this will be beneficial for my Grand Cherokee as well), so I can read in real time what is going on with the OBD2.

Next I will spray a little starting fluid at each of the vacuum ports to see if the engine revs up. I will also consider replacing the relays since they are not too expensive and easy to do. Other than that, I am unsure what to do next.

 

[GottaCruise]

I like your testing plan, e.g. obtaining the data cable to view / report real-time values from your OBDII reader, and replacing relays,

* One item to ask the mechanic is if he performed a compression test, given the white smoke at startup:

At the tailpipe,

if the smoke smells like fuel, it would indicate rich fuel burn..
if the smoke smells sweet / like almonds, it would indicate coolant being burned..

 

[macaveli]

I have a strange, very strange suspicion that there may be nothing wrong with the car. lol. i know it sounds funny but these cars have a very low compression ratio, and are heavy. i usually get the car going before a hill or drop a gear to get up it.

if the engine light is not coming up...........i`m wondering if there is anything wrong with it?

however :

If you are absolutely sure its under powered, then check out the CO settings and perhaps it is rich considering the white smoke - stick your nose at the tail pipe and smell for fuel......naturally aspirated cars can be leaned out for better performance.

 

[rfurlongsr]

Thank you macaveli for your input. I would be the first to admit that these units are under powered, but now I can't drive around with the ac going. When I mention that it has a hard time with hills, I am referring to short small hills. The difference in the way it performed and the way it performs now was rather sudden while going down a road.

 

[aquanaut20]

I am only making these suggestions because most everything has been covered...

BACK TO BASICS!

You must verify (physically) engine timing.... Crank snout and main cog...

• if this is spec,
• do a complete compression test. If any anomalies, do
• a leak down...

Every thing else is meaningless if the engine does not prove well on these tests...

If you get someone else to perform test, an "OK" is not sufficient, quote numbers... Philip

 

[DavesSpectra]

The white smoke at start-up and the fact that the head "looks new" makes me wonder "if" the head job/head gasket may have failed.. I go with aquanaut20 on doing a compression check to rule out the head gasket also. Also do a back pressure test on the exhaust system. Remove the first O2 sensor and read the back pressure...Anything more than 3psi may indicate blocked Cats...They will cause loss of power going up hill and low RPMs if blocked.
Dave

 

[rfurlongsr]

Thank you to everybody for your input on the possibilities with this Sportage. I have finally figured out the problem with the unit. This past Sunday I lifted the hood (as I have numerous times over the past couple of months) to have yet another look. However, this time I had a major AH HA moment just as I lifted the hood. I noticed the intake snorkel on top of the hood and then took a look at the insulating mat (which is in pretty good condition) fastened to the hood. I gently bent the mat at the front of the hood where it would be in relation to the intake snorkel. It would bend rather easily. I decided to cut off a small portion to eliminate that this would be closing on the intake snorkel and restricting the air. Took it for a quick drive and discovered that this was the problem all along. Wow! There wasn't any evidence that this was happening since the mat was in such good shape. I would recommend that anyone with a gen 1 Sportage to cut off the portion in the area of the snorkel not only to eliminate the possibility of this happening to them, but also who knows, maybe a lot of people are not knowingly getting the maximum power from their unit because of this hidden possibility.