[TrickedKia]

Hi,

First post here and have exhausted the search feature.

Here is my situation:

2000 Kia Sephia 1.8 auto

110k miles

No start, cranks fine, has 1 code of misfire cyclinder 1.

Here's what I've done so far:

-Compression check 160 in all 4
-Pulled each spark wire with plug and checked for spark, all 4 sparking
-switched coil pack for cylinder 1 with new one - nothing
-spark wires are maybe 1 yrs old and look good, bought new just to see - nothing
-pigtails to coil pack were brittle replaced with new from factory $35- nothing
-bought new fuel injectors $40 ebay oem - nothing
-bought new fuel regulator $40 Kia - nothing
-bought new fuel pump $20 ebay , old one sounded weak so i replaced - nothing

So, my fuel system is brand new and and i have spark, and the compression is good on all 4. All i have left to do is check timing, need to borrow a gun from a friend. The belt is good. What happened was i drove it home one night and noticed a slight burp in idle when stopping that night. Got home and next morning went to work and noticed the burping or bogging got progressively worse, it was now bogging a little more, decided to pull into an autozone and get code read. Always have one code for O2sensor cuz both cats melted and i gutted them a while back. One new code came up which was Misfire in cylinder 1. Barely got it started and sputtered a few miles back home with hazards on. The car cranks but no start, and it will slow down for a second while cranking like it gets stuck, thinking that misfire is doing that. Any help or advice would be great.

 

[GottaCruise]

Greetings,

I guess I would start with confirming that all fuses are good in both the Engine Compartment and Passenger Cabin fuse boxes, with a test light (old school), or w/ a multimeter that has a continuity test function..

Does the '00 Sephia have an OBDII diagnostic port?

If so, I'd also hookup an OBDII scanner (see my sig.), so I could see the real-time values of the various sensors on the engine / what the ECM is seeing when trying to start.

--
If after confirming spark is present, checking for fuel pressure, and checking to ensure the injectors are firing may be in order..

But would begin by making sure all fuses are good / that all components are getting power at start..

Hope this helps,

Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[TrickedKia]

Gottacruise,

Thanks for the reply. I checked all the fuses the (old School) way and they were good. I also have a multimeter with continuity, can i test the bigger relays in the fuse box, if so how?

I do have a diagnostic port in the engine compartment and was looking at the laptop obdII, would you recommend that one?

For about $45 i can get a new MAF on ebay, would this cause a no start, im thinking maybe? If not that then maybe the ECM but you are right on about doing the diagnostic test first, I didnt know they had one so cheap like that. I've never used one so my approach is always buy what it possible could be starting from lowest price up. Thanks again

 

[GottaCruise]

Gottacruise,

Thanks for the reply. I checked all the fuses the (old School) way and they were good. I also have a multimeter with continuity, can i test the bigger relays in the fuse box, if so how?

I do have a diagnostic port in the engine compartment and was looking at the laptop obdII, would you recommend that one?

For about $45 i can get a new MAF on ebay, would this cause a no start, im thinking maybe? If not that then maybe the ECM but you are right on about doing the diagnostic test first, I didnt know they had one so cheap like that. I've never used one so my approach is always buy what it possible could be starting from lowest price up. Thanks again

You're welcome, glad to help.

--
Yes, I use / can recommend the ( laptop USB ) OBDII scanner in my sig, it's paid for itself about 20 times over to-date..

* I would also signup at the kiatechinfo website (see my sig.) using Internet Explorer / see reqs. on main page,

then you can view the ETM schematics for the Sephia, and the (expected) voltages for the MAF connector,

re: relays - looking at the SEPHIA( FB ) >2000 > G 1.8 DOHC > MFI Control System (Gasoline) schematics for the 1.8L 2000 Sephia on the kiatechinfo website:

1) If you are getting good +12volt power to the [10amp Fuel Pump] fuse, then the (Fuel Pump) relay s/b working ok,

2) If you are getting good +12volt power to the [10amp INJ] fuse, then the EGI Main Relay s/b working ok,

But if any doubt, or voltage readings at either fuse is > than .5 - .75 volt less than battery voltage, I would consider replacing both relays as a diagnostic step, and would also be cleaning up the major ground points on the vehicle..

--
Your idea about confirming timing using a timing light is a good idea,

If spark is good, would confirm fuel (pump) delivery, see what the ECM is seeing, and check voltage readings at sensors, before purchasing a MAF or other components.

* Would also confirm all vacuum hoses are in good condition, the PCV Valve and hose are in good shape, and the EGR valve is in good shape, to rule out any large vacuum leaks as well.

re: MAF, yes, a bad MAF can cause a no-start, so can a bad Engine Coolant Temp sensor, etc. - which is why the OBDII scanner / real-time values will help eliminate any guessing.

Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[DavesSpectra]

First...Welcome to the forum...

You said "All i have left to do is check timing, need to borrow a gun from a friend. The belt is good."
Because I can't "see" the belt or timing marks from my computer I can not agree or dis-agree with your statement.. The belt could look good from where you are viewing it and still have teeth missing down lower allowing timing to move.
A 2000 Sephia engine is a non-interference engine and will not be damaged "if" the timing belt shifts. You could still have reasonably good compression even if it jumped timing but the spark would come at the wrong time.
I would confirm the pulleys are right on the mark...
A timing light is really not needed when you have an ECM controlled timing and you can look at the timing on an OBDII scanner...
Dave

 

[TrickedKia]

Well looks like im gonna order the latop scanner, know it will be worth the money and thanks Dave, if i could check the timing through the scanner, that would be ideal. Where are the marks for the timing located and where should they be lined up?

Gottacruise,

Thanks again for all the input. I have checked the grounds they all are in good shape. The vacuum hoses all look ok, I'm a little rusty, how would I check the PCV and EGR???

Until the laptop scanner comes in, i think ill go to autozone and purchase a MAF and return it if it does nothing. Will also check the relays with the multimater. Ill keep you guys updated.

Dave,
Ill check to see if the timing belt looks good all around, ill put some white out as a reference point and crank it a few times to check the grooves.

 

[GottaCruise]

Well looks like im gonna order the latop scanner, know it will be worth the money and thanks Dave, if i could check the timing through the scanner, that would be ideal. Where are the marks for the timing located and where should they be lined up?

Gottacruise,

Thanks again for all the input. I have checked the grounds they all are in good shape. The vacuum hoses all look ok, I'm a little rusty, how would I check the PCV and EGR???

Until the laptop scanner comes in, i think ill go to autozone and purchase a MAF and return it if it does nothing. Will also check the relays with the multimater. Ill keep you guys updated.

Dave,
Ill check to see if the timing belt looks good all around, ill put some white out as a reference point and crank it a few times to check the grooves.

Greetings,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

re: PCV and EGR -

The PCV valve is located at the top of the valve cover, and has a hose that runs to the throttle body assembly. Pull the valve from the cover, and shake it, you should hear the ball inside the valve rattle when you shake.

If not, take a look inside to see if it's gummed up or plugged, or if lousy looking and original to the vehicle, I'd purchase and install a new PCV valve..

Also check the hose from the PCV valve to the throttle body assembly for any breaks or cracks. In fact, you should give all the vacuum hoses a visual inspection for any dryness, cracks or breaks, all hoses should be flexible & in good condition.

re: EGR valve - this was my bad, AFAIK or could find online, the Sephia doesn't have an exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve setup on the 1.8 motor.

--
Agree w/ Dave - please fully verify mechanical timing to ensure it's good, the engine's mechanical timing must be good & verified as a primary step,


Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[TrickedKia]

Update!

It's been three months since I started this thread. I have a work truck so I put the kia on hold. Had a week off and really need to get her up and running as my work truck will soon be gone.

So here's the update:

Purchased the Laptop Elmscanner. But since i cannot get the car started, i cant do much. The battery went dead thus clearing the ecu.

I removed the timing belt covers and all three marks line up perfectly and the belt looks like its in good condition. So the timing can be ruled out.

I also found that the air intake hose that connects the TB and MAF had small tears in the ridges of the acordian type bend it has. I used duct tape to seal it all up. Also a vacuum hose going to the valve cover with a small crack where it slid onto the cover which I also duct taped.

Was wondering what is the best way to go about diagnosing this? Would like to check all sensors with the elmscan but dont think I can without running the engine. I have a good volt meter also. Just need some reference numbers and the KGIS is helpful but references to certain test connectors you need to check the volts or ohms.

Here is a video of me trying to start her:
WP 20130111 193239Z - YouTube

Any help is greatly appreciated, and many thanks to GottaCruise and DavesSpectra

 

[DavesSpectra]

We just had a poster with a Sephia that was having starting problems and he found that the end of the crankshaft where the keyway is was rusted and the pulley moved because of it causing the timing to be out...
You might want to inspect that area and also read the posts on his Sephia.
Dave

 

[TrickedKia]

Thats a good tip Ill check it out but I checked all the marks today, the I and E on the cams line up and also on the crankshaft pulley there is a yellow square mark that lines up perfectly with a small arrow on the block so I doubt that is the cause. If not i would think the yellow mark would be off slightly.

Any clue if there are relays under the dash that I'm not aware of??? Just fixed a buddies S10 that had some relays stuffed way up behind the dash.

 

[DavesSpectra]

BTW..
The area was covered in rust and it was not visable until the end of the crank was cleaned of the rust... Visabily it looked "good".
Dave

 

[TrickedKia]

Will try removing the pulley today. Dont have an impact gun so I'll use the starter to remove the bolt. Would I be able to tighten the bolt back on with a breaker bar and putting the car in gear? It is an automatic.

 

[DavesSpectra]

The thread is ...
http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-sephia-forum/83663-timing-marks-good-1-cyl-not.html.
I wonder why KIA didn't put a hole in the pully and a threaded hole in the block where you could insert a bolt to hold the pully and crank while tightening/loosening the nut... Would have made life easiler for everyone.
I used a rubber strap wrench to hold the pulley on my wife's engine as I tightened the nut on her Spectra..It was tight enough to not work loose.

 

[TrickedKia]

Update

Thanks Dave....I'll figure something out to tighten it. So I removed the crank pulley and everything looks really good. At this point I was kinda hoping I would see something wrong. Im going to have to go back and check the electrical system, very in depth. Its gotta be something electrical, a sensor or something. Would anyone have a link to a good thread on this, I've looked with the search feature but dont think im wording it right, not getting any useful threads. Also where the hell is the crankshaft sensor, Thought it was on the tranny bellhousing but dont see it.
Thanks

 

[TrickedKia]

update

Well, I was able to locate and test a few different things.

Found the Crank Sensor and tested it per KGIS and was good 855ohms (800-900) is good.

Decided to check the ignition system again and tested both coil packs.

Both primary coil packs measured exactly .6 ohms

Coils connections were both at 11.8volts which i Figure is good.

secondary coils were at 12.8 and 13 Kilo ohms 13- 15 is good per KGIS

Checked spark plug wires and the longer one is at 11.9 kilo ohms the shorter one is at 14.6 kilo ohms, KGIS says [16 kilo ohms per 3.28 feet (1 meter)] So not sure here, wires are about a year old.

Pulled the spark plugs are they are black from i guess trying to start so many times. They are brand new, I will re gap to .30 like I read they should be at and clean them with heat I guess.

I was wondering about the coil packs where the secondary coil is I read there is supposed to be a resistor but all I see is a spring, can anyone enlighten me on this?

 

[GottaCruise]

Hi TrickedKia,

By all means check w/ a Kia Dealer to confirm, but from what I checked on-line, the coil packs / wires on your vehicle do not have a (separate) coil pack resistor in-line between the secondary coil and HT (short) lead..
--
From the resistance readings you posted, those readings seem high - if you have an auto parts store you deal with regularly, possibly they would let you check the resistance readings on the long wires prior to purchase to confirm..

If the plugs were blackened (and it was my Sporty), I would be checking / verifying voltage (+12v) to the coil pack connectors, Battery -> frame ground point, battery -> engine ground strap, the ECM ground point, and if no joy after Q/A'ing / cleaning above,

would be performing a fuel pressure test to make sure the motor wasn't dying due to fuel starvation..

Hope this helps,

Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[GottaCruise]

Well, I was able to locate and test a few different things.

Coils connections were both at 11.8volts which i Figure is good.

This is only good if (Battery) voltage is in that range - if voltage direct at battery is more than .5 volt higher than (+12v) feed at ignition coil connector, suspect poor grounding, if no joy after cleaning up ground points, then I would investigate / check for a possible (relay) issue on the (+) side..

Regards,
GottaCruise

 

[TrickedKia]

Found Something!

So I decided to check the continuity of the fuses in the engine compartment, I had previously just checked the fuses with a fuse checker light up tool.

The 10A Fuel pump fuse has no continuity, and does not register a set amount of voltage.

The 10A Injector fuse has continuity and registers 12.22V.

the 15A Ign coil fuse has no continuity but registers at 12.1v where the B+ is 12.22.

A few other fuses did not have continuity, like the hazard lights which wasnt working.

Also when I remove and insert the 15A Ign coil fuse I hear a click in the EGI main amp relay.

I then decided to check what the voltages off the ECM connector were referencing with the diagram off KGIS.

Nothing was correct.

The B+ and ground were on point and the ign coil gave me a 12.09 reading . Everything else was not giving me a steady voltage reading . All the other B+'s were way off, giving me mV's

If the electrical guru's could chime in I would forever be in your debt. I need to get her running again. ITs been 6 months, starting to worry if the gas might not be good at this point.

Where should I go from here. I feel I am close to solving this never ending problem.

Thanks guys for all the help!

P.S. All readings were done with key in Ign On/Eng Off

 

[TrickedKia]

Also I cleaned and checked the battery ground point , engine ground strap, tranny ground strap and ECM ground and came up with a perfect B+ every time.

 

[GottaCruise]

As a sanity check:

Confirm the fuel pump fuse is good or blown,

Confirm the ground ring back at the fuel pump is secured (screwed/bolted down), is clean, and is using a clean bolt/screw (no rust!),

With the fuel pump fuse OUT, confirm you are getting 12+ volts at one side of the fuse, the other probe to engine or frame ground,

Confirm you have / have not replaced either the EGI Main or the Fuel Pump relays,

Confirm the SECONDARY fuses: Turn Signal, Meter, ECU Ign, ABS (if applicable), Room, ECU B+, Stop Light, Air Bag, Audio, Cigar - have also been checked / are not blown..

* Remember to check & confirm wiring connectors and ground ring at the fuel pump!

Regards,
GottaCruise