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2017 Sportage SX Turbo
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Discussion Starter #1
Good day Sportage group!

My first post, I have a serious question.

I've had my 2017 SX Turbo since April and and am generally very happy with the build quality and features. (less thrilled with the fuel mileage...::crying::)

For the last month or so I've experienced a lot of roughness during idle (I do a lot of stop & go driving) and surging during mid or full throttle operation (entering freeway ramps, etc.)
It seems clearly to be missing intermittently while idling in gear, and I'm guessing under heavy throttle as well (hence the surging...) . My dealer says there's nothing wrong and all GDI engines do this. I called BS (I'm coming from a Golf GTI - 2.0 Turbo with GDI - 10 years old & 170 K KM and NEVER did that...).

Anyone else have this issue with the 2.0 Turbo? The car has also thrown engine lights twice which the dealer has reset with no remedies...
Possibly the HOT weather this year may contribute, but I can't believe this is a normal thing...
 

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2017 AWD Sportage SX Turbo - Black / Beige
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Good day Sportage group!

My first post, I have a serious question.

I've had my 2017 SX Turbo since April and and am generally very happy with the build quality and features. (less thrilled with the fuel mileage...::crying::)

For the last month or so I've experienced a lot of roughness during idle (I do a lot of stop & go driving) and surging during mid or full throttle operation (entering freeway ramps, etc.)
It seems clearly to be missing intermittently while idling in gear, and I'm guessing under heavy throttle as well (hence the surging...) . My dealer says there's nothing wrong and all GDI engines do this. I called BS (I'm coming from a Golf GTI - 2.0 Turbo with GDI - 10 years old & 170 K KM and NEVER did that...).

Anyone else have this issue with the 2.0 Turbo? The car has also thrown engine lights twice which the dealer has reset with no remedies...
Possibly the HOT weather this year may contribute, but I can't believe this is a normal thing...
Well you're right about the BS, that's for sure.

Do you know what codes it threw? My 17 SX has thrown two CELs and they were both P0303, which is a misfire on cyl #3 . On two separate occasion the engine has cracked the ceramic on the nose of the spark plug in cyl #3 . Twice, almost exactly the same place on the plug ceramic.

I wonder if your SX has done this as well but the dealer hasn't told you about it, just replaced the plug and reset the code.
 

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2017 Sportage SX AWD / Mineral silver with beige interior
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In my previous post I mentioned Hiccups at idle. This has cleared up a lot by not using Eco Mode and the Phillips 66
mid octane gas (87?)

JK
 

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2017 Sportage SX Turbo
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Discussion Starter #4
In my previous post I mentioned Hiccups at idle. This has cleared up a lot by not using Eco Mode and the Phillips 66
mid octane gas (87?)

JK
Those were the first & second things I tried. Filled tank with premium, then ran on Regular & Sport modes - no change.
I usually run in Eco mode 'cause - why not?

My dealer can't get me in 'til this Wed!! I visited a second dealer who gave me a coffee and quickly ran a diagnostic - came up with several DTC codes - one of which is P0302 - misfiring on cylinder # 2!! 0:)

I will visit my dealer on Wednesday, and will complain bitterly about poor expertise in his service team. I'll mention that another dealer found the issue in < 5 minutes.
We'll see. If that doesn't get it fixed, I'll change dealers and mention the dealer name here.

Is the spark plug issue a common one with this engine? Can I expect this going forward?
 

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2017 AWD Sportage SX Turbo - Black / Beige
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well i've had two cracked plug ceramics on cyl #3 . one at about 6000km and the second time at a little over 10000.

I'd bet a wad your plug in cyl #2 cracked as well and they just didn't tell you. Press the service manager for more information. i'd ask him outright if it was a cracked or damaged plug because you know that this has happened with other SXs. If necessary you might want to, politely, remind him that it's your car and you'd like to know what is going on with it.
 

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2019 SQ5 (2017 Sportage SX FWD, sold)
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..
I usually run in Eco mode 'cause - why not?

.. [/B]
Because it loads down the engine too much at low rpm unless your using manual shift mode and are used to driving a manual 2.0t. It's fine on the highway but around town it tends to shift too soon and lug the engine a lot.

I agree with Sloppy, cracked plug on #2 . Personally, I would never run 87, no point. Use a ralphs card and get premium for 20 cents off.
 

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2017 Sportage SX AWD / Mineral silver with beige interior
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Because it loads down the engine too much at low rpm unless your using manual shift mode and are used to driving a manual 2.0t. It's fine on the highway but around town it tends to shift too soon and lug the engine a lot.

I agree with Sloppy, cracked plug on #2 . Personally, I would never run 87, no point. Use a ralphs card and get premium for 20 cents off.
Not sure what a Ralph's card is and what octane is your premium? I assume it's a step up from the regular. I average 24mph without using ECO mode and I like to punch it getting on the highway etc.

JK
 

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Not sure what a Ralph's card is and what octane is your premium? I assume it's a step up from the regular. I average 24mph without using ECO mode and I like to punch it getting on the highway etc.

JK
Ralph's is a grocery chain in California. Regardless of the chain name, most states have a points card that gets you a discount on fuel at shell and other stations.

91 is the highest we have here. I would use 93 if it were an option. That's me though and my cars never stay stock, especially turbo cars.

To the OP:
These cars are speed density so unless you have a manifold leak, I would be looking at plugs first then map/iat sensor then injectors for rough idle issues.
 

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2017 Sportage SX AWD / Mineral silver with beige interior
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Ralph's is a grocery chain in California. Regardless of the chain name, most states have a points card that gets you a discount on fuel at shell and other stations.

91 is the highest we have here. I would use 93 if it were an option. That's me though and my cars never stay stock, especially turbo cars.

To the OP:
These cars are speed density so unless you have a manifold leak, I would be looking at plugs first then map/iat sensor then injectors for rough idle issues.
I do use a Phillips 66 Kick Back card. I was confused when you said 'why use 87%' when you're actually using higher octane.

JK
 

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2017 Kia Sportage
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Unless your vehicle is pinging (due to fuel pre-detonation), there is no point in running a higher octane fuel.
This is absolutely correct. There are some cars (and this is NOT one of them) that actually are designed to get higher output with higher octane. However, their computers are programmed for this. Some BMW's have this. So putting higher octane gas into a car designed for regular is just a waste of money. Also, higher octane gas is NOT higher quality gas in almost all cases. In almost all enthusiast boards I've seen, this is always an issue that is discussed and there is always someone who swears it makes a difference. Here are some articles from reputable sources:

Fact or Fiction?: Premium Gasoline Delivers Premium Benefits to Your Car - Scientific American

Automotive Tools Tips Advice - Kelley Blue Book

Premium vs. Regular | Car Talk
 
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2017 Sportage SX Turbo
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Discussion Starter #12
Because it loads down the engine too much at low rpm unless your using manual shift mode and are used to driving a manual 2.0t. It's fine on the highway but around town it tends to shift too soon and lug the engine a lot.
I've been wondering about this too - I know the peak torque is @1450 rpm, and that there is no point in running it past about 4000 rpm as the power drops off quite noticeably, so I assume this engine is designed as a low speed unit. Having said that, it spends about 90% of the time below 2000 rpm, and at 120 kmh (~70 mph) is still only turning about 2200. Could this cause excessive carbon build up? I take it on the freeway at least once /week and try to give it a blow out, I've even run it in 5th at 120 kmh (~3000rpm) for stretches to let it breathe.


Just got back from the dealer - still no DTC codes (he showed me the printout) and he says he has heard of only 1 instance of cracked plugs on this engine. I guess I have to wait til the CEL comes on again. I bought a OBDII scanner and it burped out 75 pages of codes, with the engine idling in gear (on AUTO HOLD) and I could feel it missing, but the scanner didn't show any DTC codes. Man am I frustrated!!! . Too bad because otherwise I like the car and feel good about the purchase.

I'm retired and want to keep this car for 8-10 years. One of the reasons I chose KIA over VW is that KIA has a better long term reliability record at this point. Hope I am not making a big mistake.....:eek:
 

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2017 Sportage SX AWD / Mineral silver with beige interior
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Unless your vehicle is pinging (due to fuel pre-detonation), there is no point in running a higher octane fuel.
I agree to the point that I don't use 91%, but here in Colorado we have 85% and I do use the 87% due
to my 50 years driving experience.

JK
 

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2017 KIA Sportage SX AWD
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My SX and her Odyssey with VCM are the kind of engines that need some help from owners to maintain proper performance. So far my plan is working on both of them the same way it has worked on all our previous cars since 1990. First, I use good oil and change it on the 5000s or by the OLM depending on what it looks like to me. Second, and particularly with DI, I use a fuel stabilizer/cleaner. And lastly, I use a Tier 1 fuel of 89 octane or better in the turbo, mainly to get the benefits of the additives in the Premium component of the Plus fuel. Those of you who actually know something will think all those detergents are not going to benefit the intake valves because of the Direct Injection. My counter to that is the detergents will contact the intake valves because of overlap, which is also how the deposits get there in the first place. The Honda VCM engines sometimes go very bad because of carbon build-up in the 'off' cylinders. The same applies there, and its definitely working. She's pushing 25K miles on it now and it runs just like new. When I drive it, which is not frequently, I make sure to give it throttle whenever I can to help keep the 'off' cylinders clean. We have not needed any upper engine cleaning service on any previous cars and have never experienced dirty or stuck injectors or any other fuel or oil problem on any vehicle. All of them start and run perfectly even in bitter cold because the fuel additive prevents any water that the ethanol fuel is carrying in solution from freezing or causing corrosion in the fuel systems and filters.
So, while the admonition against higher octane fuel in cars that are made for regular is usually correct, there are special situations in which it could be indicated, and no situations I know of where it would be harmful. One special situation may be a turbo car. What happens when the compressed air in effect raises the compression ratio? Knocking may result, which is instantly detected by the knock sensor and the ignition is retarded to eliminate the knock. So, if you use a higher octane and the knock doesn't happen, the ignition does not get retarded and you go faster. And, spark knock does not damage the spark plugs which can destroy the engine - and has, as reported here numerous times.
 

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So, while the admonition against higher octane fuel in cars that are made for regular is usually correct, there are special situations in which it could be indicated, and no situations I know of where it would be harmful. One special situation may be a turbo car. What happens when the compressed air in effect raises the compression ratio? Knocking may result, which is instantly detected by the knock sensor and the ignition is retarded to eliminate the knock. So, if you use a higher octane and the knock doesn't happen, the ignition does not get retarded and you go faster. And, spark knock does not damage the spark plugs which can destroy the engine - and has, as reported here numerous times.
As long as you use gasoline brands that are Top Tier licensed, the octane level doesn't matter. Some people believe, wrongly so, that higher octanes have greater cleaning performance -- they don't. Most brands of gasoline today are Top Tier licensed. So it is a matter of brand, not octane level. The whole idea of getting more power because of retardation is also a fallacy in today's cars. Today's engines are electronically controlled and designed to get maximum power from the prescribed fuel -- even with a turbo. Generally, when the engineering team adds a turbo, they lower the compression ratio of the engine so that the maximum power is achieved. They do not retard the spark. The knock sensor is only there to prevent engine damage, not to be a part of the power curve. There are exceptions to this. Some BMW's are DESIGNED to retard the spark when regular is used so there is more power when a higher octane is used. BMW designed the car this way so you had the option to use regular fuel. If a car is DESIGNED to use premium fuel, then you will lose power if regular is used. But again, if a car is DESIGNED to use regular fuel, the reverse is not true, i.e., you will see NO power gain with higher octane fuels.

I'm an old guy who has worked on lots of cars from Renault's and Chevy's to Porsche's and BMW's. I've bored and stroked and tuned a number of cars. I remember the day when octane did make a difference, when knocking was a part of building engines, and when some fuels were just junk. Times have changed. Now, if you change the manufacturer's programming through tuning -- getting more power at the expense of other factors like smoothness, efficiency, and safety factors -- then higher octane fuels may be required. However, that is because YOU DESIGNED the engine differently. I've stopped working on today's cars because manufacturer's are under heavy competitive pressure to maximize power and efficiency and they do a great job.

The net net is that with our car, even with the turbo, if you use a Top Tier brand (and there are dozens of them), there is absolutely no benefit to higher octane fuels.
 

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Well you're right about the BS, that's for sure.

Do you know what codes it threw? My 17 SX has thrown two CELs and they were both P0303, which is a misfire on cyl #3 . On two separate occasion the engine has cracked the ceramic on the nose of the spark plug in cyl #3 . Twice, almost exactly the same place on the plug ceramic.

I wonder if your SX has done this as well but the dealer hasn't told you about it, just replaced the plug and reset the code.
Sloppy, Do you know which plug mfg.(ND or NGK) made the plugs that failed in your car?
 

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2016 Sorento SX V6, Regency Red, Built in Georgia March 16, 2016 - Bought it April 28th, 2016
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Newer turbo engines including the Kia/ Hyundai turbos do sense higher octane and deliver more power. So there is a point.
Unfortunately, this is NOT proven for our car. Shell has run tests with VW's, but they were DESIGNED to advance the timing with premium fuels. As far as I can research, this is not true for our 2017 Kia's. There is a difference between a theoretical increase and a programmed increase. While the engineers may say it is possible, it takes implementation to make it so. Until there are dyno tests on our specific engines using factory programming, I'll be very skeptical. In most cases where it does make a difference, as with BMW's and VW's, the engine is actually detuned to accept regular fuel. If an engine is optimized and designed to maximize output with regular fuel, there will be no increase in power with higher octanes. In a BMW I had that utilized higher octane fuel, it said right in the manual that you would get higher hp with higher octane. I don't see this in our Kia manual. So, as long as my Kia runs extremely well (and it is quite smooth), I will not use higher octane fuels. However, I will only use Top Tier licensed brands due to testing and additives.

And yes, it does remain possible that our engines are detuned to use regular, so if you have any direct evidence (not anecdotes), I'm all ears. In any case, there is no "quality" benefit to using premium gas.
 
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Sloppy, Do you know which plug mfg.(ND or NGK) made the plugs that failed in your car?
ND in both cases oldsport. I have a set of the HKS 40XLs right here in my grubby little paws should that pesky CEL raise its ugy head again, at which point they will be installed post haste.
 

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Unfortunately, this is NOT proven for our car. Shell has run tests with VW's, but they were DESIGNED to advance the timing with premium fuels. As far as I can research, this is not true for our 2017 Kia's. There is a difference between a theoretical increase and a programmed increase. While the engineers may say it is possible, it takes implementation to make it so. Until there are dyno tests on our specific engines using factory programming, I'll be very skeptical. In most cases where it does make a difference, as with BMW's and VW's, the engine is actually detuned to accept regular fuel. If an engine is optimized and designed to maximize output with regular fuel, there will be no increase in power with higher octanes. In a BMW I had that utilized higher octane fuel, it said right in the manual that you would get higher hp with higher octane. I don't see this in our Kia manual. So, as long as my Kia runs extremely well (and it is quite smooth), I will not use higher octane fuels. However, I will only use Top Tier licensed brands due to testing and additives.

And yes, it does remain possible that our engines are detuned to use regular, so if you have any direct evidence (not anecdotes), I'm all ears. In any case, there is no "quality" benefit to using premium gas.
Looks like YOU are ENTITTLED to your own OPINION. (found my shift key - just like you!)
 
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