For the millionth time. Kia valve tick. - Kia Forum

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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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For the millionth time. Kia valve tick.

Doing a online search. Dealers seem to be telling owners. That a Kia valve tick is totally normal. Which is what our local dealer told my wife.

How does a gasoline engine sound like a Volkswagen diesel ??

For 32 years, I have had many engines apart. From lawn mowers to Mack trucks.
With main focus on Chevy and John Deere.

The wife has a 2012 Forte. 122,000 miles.
Around 70,000 miles a slight valve tick started.
I told her maybe the injectors.
She took it in. They told her it was fine.
She took it in after 90,000.
Again told fine. But they did replace spark plugs.


The tick would go away or be very slight after awhile.
Now it is loud. Sounds exactly like a Volkswagen diesel.
Does not go away after warm up.

Seems like a tick not a rod knock
Stethoscope did not show anything abnormal.

I have not come across anyone describing a procedure to go through.
To try to locate / isolate the Kia { valve } tick

I am just amazed that a gasoline Kia engine.
Is supposed to sound like a Volkswagen diesel.
Which all owners are to except that as normal.

I find it hard to believe. That some mechanic, wrencher, or gear head.
Has not figured out what makes the noise in Kia engines.


Anyone have any positive results??

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by John Deere Boy View Post
.... I find it hard to believe. That some mechanic, wrencher, or gear head has not figured out what makes the noise in Kia engines. ...
Well, how about you? You're ranting about why no one has done this, but how many owners have anything close to your background? I'm a typical shade tree DIYer who would be willing to take on the job of diagnose and repair of an actual internal engine issue that takes the vehicle off the road, but I would never consider tearing it down simply to chase a ticking noise. I suspect that most other DIYers with average skills and knowledge would feel the same way about this. And no owner who doesn't DIY is going to pay a huge amount of $$ to a shop to find a noise, when there is no associated performance issue.

And AFA a 'procedure', aside from using a stethoscope as you described, the only other option would be to start disassembling (timing cover, valve cover, head ...), in order to diagnose for issues. Again, this is something that very few owners would ever consider doing, and even fewer would have the skills to do the work successfully, without messing up their daily driver. The automakers are making vehicles more complex over time (particularly with more electronic systems), and the byproduct of that is fewer and fewer DIYers every day. A quick look at most auto forums will confirm that. So don't look around for anyone else to do this, because there's no one there.

I will say that there have been a very small number of DIY reports, where owners have had issues with the timing chain loop. I refer to it that way, because there's never been enough good follow up describing exactly what was found. So those problems could have been tensioner, guides, or possibly something self-inflicted, such as sludge. And of course any problem along those lines could produce a ticking noise, so there's one possibility for you to consider.

And the final thing I'll add is that Kia/Hyundai have issued TSBs stating that some aftermarket oil filters do not meet their specs, and can cause issues. No details or names in those bulletins, only that the automakers always recommend using OEM filters. So if you don't currently use Kia filters, you might want to try that, simply because it's an easy thing to do.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 08:34 PM
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@ Member Kiaguy002...Thanks SO MUCH for an EXCELLENT post! Yes there are a few of us that have years of automotive knowledge...BUT to have been current in some of today's engines on a steady basis and "in depth" to pass engine series specific detailed diagnosis/repair instructions is all but impossible to do to please SOME people. Particularly when they use comparisons of noise to a VW diesel...I've listened to and looked at a number of fairly new VW diesels, and have been AMAZED at how quiet they run when compared to their 1st generation(1977 - 1985) fore bearers! You offered some good possibilites, and I will offer one more. I've been reading of many concerns of a "ticking" noise on GDI motors(which I think the OP has), and seems that it is fuel injector clatter from these new type of fuel injectors for the GDI design.
Seems that some people just want to come to a forum just to RANT about a "peeve" they have about their vehicle and do not much more than that or just try and "trash" a whole car brand and any corresponding forum that may be about that brand!
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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I am not trashing Kia motors. Our 2016 Sedona runs smooth and quiet. Just like any other car.
My Mack is quieter than the Forte.

Yes, I do not understand new engines.
Hence why I am asking.
I can build race engines without a problem.
Work on the Macks or John Deeres around here without a problem.
I love Blueprinting and balancing Chevy motors.

But besides injectors. Noise means slop.
Which means wear and premature engine failure.
So without a proactive approach. The engine could wear out or self destruct.
Plus the dealers want to sell you a new car.
Not tell you a simple fix. Which could let the engine go 300,000 miles.

While the stethoscope is super generic. You can sometimes isolate a noise to an area or cylinder.
Everywhere on the engine sounded the same. I was hoping like # 3 injector would be hammering.
But all was the same.

I have heard people say the following.
Replace the intake and exhaust fuel sensors
Replace the injectors.
Replace the valve cups/ grind valves.
Replace timing belt/chain
Replace drive pulley{ it is like a slip clutch} ?

I am not familiar with this engines.
At the moment I do not have time to go on a wild hunt.
Maybe in a month or so when things slow down.
I will take the motor apart.

So I am just asking for advice. On where to start.
Not trying to stir any shit !

Also, I should have stated a Volkswagen ' Rabbit.'
The new ones are quiet.

Thank you.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Deere Boy View Post
....
I have heard people say the following.
Replace the intake and exhaust fuel sensors
Replace the injectors.
Replace the valve cups/ grind valves.
Replace timing belt/chain
Replace drive pulley{ it is like a slip clutch} ?
....
I have heard people say that a moon landing never happened.

I say diagnose, and then replace/repair based on the actual problem.

If you ever do find and eliminate the cause of the noise, post back because you'll have a place in the automobile Hall-of-Fame already reserved for you
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Deere Boy View Post
Doing a online search. Dealers seem to be telling owners. That a Kia valve tick is totally normal. Which is what our local dealer told my wife.

How does a gasoline engine sound like a Volkswagen diesel ??

For 32 years, I have had many engines apart. From lawn mowers to Mack trucks.
With main focus on Chevy and John Deere.

The wife has a 2012 Forte. 122,000 miles.
Around 70,000 miles a slight valve tick started.
I told her maybe the injectors.
She took it in. They told her it was fine.
She took it in after 90,000.
Again told fine. But they did replace spark plugs.


The tick would go away or be very slight after awhile.
Now it is loud. Sounds exactly like a Volkswagen diesel.
Does not go away after warm up.

Seems like a tick not a rod knock
Stethoscope did not show anything abnormal.

I have not come across anyone describing a procedure to go through.
To try to locate / isolate the Kia { valve } tick

I am just amazed that a gasoline Kia engine.
Is supposed to sound like a Volkswagen diesel.
Which all owners are to except that as normal.

I find it hard to believe. That some mechanic, wrencher, or gear head.
Has not figured out what makes the noise in Kia engines.


Anyone have any positive results??

Hi there, My Kia Rondo 2.4 with 170,000 km developed ticking noise which sounded the way you described. It was found that cyl 4 has a piston slap. It is a serious wear but engine can run without self destructions for long time. Here in Canada, there is a facebook forum with so many kia forte having some problem even with moderate mileage.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cickos View Post
... It was found that cyl 4 has a piston slap. ....
Who found that and how did they do it? Is there any documentation of the process that was used, including pictures? I read stuff like this all the time, with people claiming to have all the answers, but no one ever provides proof of what they're saying. And a bunch of people ranting about noise on a Facebook group is not proof of anything. Care to become the first one to provide proof of what you're saying?
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiaguy002 View Post
Who found that and how did they do it? Is there any documentation of the process that was used, including pictures? I read stuff like this all the time, with people claiming to have all the answers, but no one ever provides proof of what they're saying. And a bunch of people ranting about noise on a Facebook group is not proof of anything. Care to become the first one to provide proof of what you're saying?

Look at this video. My Rondo 2.4 engine had the same cylinder 4 marks and wear captured by small camera inserted from the sparks whole.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cickos View Post
Look at this video. ....
I've seen that video before, but watched it again because I didn't remember everything that was said. First off, there certainly was damage in that engine, no question about that. But, as with all of the seized engines, this cylinder damage comes right back to the same old story of no definitive root cause being identified. And, going along with the root cause, why aren't even more engines failing (or having similar cylinder damage) if there is a systemic defect?

But I will say that something I didn't take note of previously in that video did jump out at me this time. The guy did a bit of rambling speculation on why the cylinder damage might have happened, and one of the things he said was along the lines that 'the engine might have not been warmed up long enough before driving'.

I got to thinking about that a bit, and now I'm wondering if there could possibly be a smoking gun related to that idea. I think everyone can agree that warming up an engine is one of the least consistent and predictable aspects of owning a vehicle. Some people drive within a second or two of starting up, others let it idle for 5 minutes before driving, and everything in between those 2 extremes as well.

So, what if these Kia/Hyundai engines with a history of failure, have something about their design which can result in internal damage if not sufficiently warmed up before being pushed? (more so than other makes) No big damage coming from any one start, just a cumulative thing that takes it's toll over time. And there's also some variables in there as well. If someone only lets it warm for a few seconds, but then drives slowly at low RPMs at first, that might be no different than a 30-45 second stationary warm up. And the flip side to that would be someone who warms up the engine for 30 seconds to a minute, but then immediately jumps onto a highway and takes it up to 70 MPH. So there are a number of potential ways to stress out an engine before it's ready to be loaded up.

And one other thing that ties into this idea is that so many Canadian owners seem to feel their Kia engines have abnormal noise, and it's a fact that Canada has consistently cold Winter temps. The one thing about this theory that I like is that it could tend to explain why the failures are seemingly so erratic and haphazard - no pattern that anyone (outside of Kia and Hyundai) has been able to identify.

Well, this is all just another bit of speculation, to go along with the other 25 or so that are currently floating around. And another theory brings us no closer to the actual cause of the failures - just more spinning the wheels.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2019, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Deere Boy View Post
I am not trashing Kia motors. Our 2016 Sedona runs smooth and quiet. Just like any other car.
My Mack is quieter than the Forte.

Yes, I do not understand new engines.
Hence why I am asking.
I can build race engines without a problem.
Work on the Macks or John Deeres around here without a problem.
I love Blueprinting and balancing Chevy motors.

But besides injectors. Noise means slop.
Which means wear and premature engine failure.
So without a proactive approach. The engine could wear out or self destruct.
Plus the dealers want to sell you a new car.
Not tell you a simple fix. Which could let the engine go 300,000 miles.

While the stethoscope is super generic. You can sometimes isolate a noise to an area or cylinder.
Everywhere on the engine sounded the same. I was hoping like # 3 injector would be hammering.
But all was the same.

I have heard people say the following.
Replace the intake and exhaust fuel sensors
Replace the injectors.
Replace the valve cups/ grind valves.
Replace timing belt/chain
Replace drive pulley{ it is like a slip clutch} ?

I am not familiar with this engines.
At the moment I do not have time to go on a wild hunt.
Maybe in a month or so when things slow down.
I will take the motor apart.

So I am just asking for advice. On where to start.
Not trying to stir any shit !

Also, I should have stated a Volkswagen ' Rabbit.'
The new ones are quiet.

Thank you.
Not long ago, All engines were normally built with "Hydraulic" valve lifters. Which required no adjustment once set/until somewhat worn. These are fairly Quiet! "For the average consumers comfort" Then you had Hi-Performance engines built with racing cams, & Solid lifters which was a mechanical advantage over hydraulics, but you had to set, and sometimes reset the respective required clearance on them. That's when the valvetrain got noisy! But it was the sound of power! Then came aftermarket roller cams, that were more efficient, & quieter. Nowadays, on some cars like Hyundai & Kia they use bucket type lifters which are just as noisy as solid lifters, and once the get worn, & more noisy, you need to replace them with slightly longer new buckets. Depending on how much wear is on the drivetrain. I believe they're sold in different lengths to compensate for the drivetrain wear! So There is your answer on why your drivetrain is noisy on these cars, and can get noisier with wear. Plus the regular rattling noise of the new GDI system.

Some previous Hyundai/Kia vehicles: 2002 Santa Fe LX V6 AWD, 2005 Tucson LX V6 AWD, 2010 Tucson GLS 2.4L AWD, 2011 Sportage EX 2.4L AWD, 2015 Sorento Ex V6 AWD
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