2009 1.6 CRDI stuck in limp mode - MAP dead? - Kia Forum

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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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2009 1.6 CRDI stuck in limp mode - MAP dead?

Hi all,

First post here, so I'll try to be a Good Member and be detailed. I've done plenty of Googling before joining and kept seeing the site in the results, so...

I've had my 115bhp CRDI for just over a year. Since I bought it, there has always been a bit of a flat spot under acceleration when cold at around 1800 rpm. However, in the last month it has gotten progressively worse. At first the single flat spot became several, and when I drove with the window down I could hear the turbo spinning up and then being cut off. I assumed it was bad diesel as it started after filling up from almost empty. I put some STP cleaner in it and things were ok for a few days.

The flat spots have gotten bigger (after several full tanks from different garages), until finally I realized it must be in limp mode despite having no check engine light. There is no turbo at all, and it won't rev past 2800 rpm. After some more Googling I cleaned out the MAF sensor and replaced the air filter, but it made no difference.

Yesterday I took delivery of an OBD2 module, and it told me that the following errors were logged:

P0098 (IAT Sensor 2 Circuit High)
P0238 (Turbo Boost Sensor 'A' Circuit High)
P0069 (Manifold Absolute Pressure - Barometric Pressure Correlation)

When driving, the intake temp is stuck at -40C and the intake pressure is fixed at 37.0 PSI. Having found the thread "KIA Cee'd CRDI intake air temperature sensor" on here, it looks like the IAT sensor might be the problem.

I took this off today and cleaned it, as it was quite dirty. I also cleaned the connectors with contact cleaner. After putting it back together, the code which I thought was unrelated - P0069 - has cleared! However, everything else is the same.

One thing I have noticed is that this thing, located up the hose from the intercooler, has a broken collar. I'm not sure what it is, but I think it's a butterfly of some description as the engine seems to choke if I close it:


As you might have guessed, I'm no mechanic! I'm leaning towards diagnosing the MAP sensor as dead, but am very grateful for any advice!

Gary

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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Here's the picture of the part I mentioned above:

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 08:59 AM
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Welcome to the Forum from the USA!
From your description and picture, that looks like the turbo waste gate valve and is definitely broken. We don't have the Ceed here or that diesel that I can think of here. BUT for any turbo motor the wastegate operation is very important to engine running. Good luck, and hope some Ceed members can help you out!
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MIA KIA 09 View Post
Welcome to the Forum from the USA!
From your description and picture, that looks like the turbo waste gate valve and is definitely broken. We don't have the Ceed here or that diesel that I can think of here. BUT for any turbo motor the wastegate operation is very important to engine running. Good luck, and hope some Ceed members can help you out!
Hi, thank you for the welcome and the quick reply! I think it definitely leads towards the turbo, but I'm not sure if this is the waste gate actuator as all of the replacements I can see are slightly different in appearance - they don't have the rubber boot and the connector at the bottom is longer:



However, I've since found numerous threads about this actuator breaking and failing in the open position - I guess this makes sense, as when I 'actuated' it myself the engine stuttered like it wasn't getting enough air. Perhaps I was closing it and messing with the vacuum?
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-21-2018, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Ok... I think I've spent the day barking up the wrong tree. The picture I posted apparently shows the 'Air control valve', which is basically a throttle body used to kill the engine among other things. That certainly explains why the engine dies when i press it



Once I realised this wasn't likely to be anything to do with the problem, I re-read the original thread I had found and realised that my MAF sensor does indeed have a five-wire connection, so I decided to see what happens when I disconnect it. When connected, my OBD software shows this:



Note the lack of boost data, and the two errors mentioned in my first post. When I disconnected the cable from the MAF sensor, suddenly:



I have boost again! So, my educated guess is that the IAT incorporated into the MAF is dead, and is causing the ECU to apply limp mode.

So, only two questions remain:

1. I need a new MAF sensor, right?
2. Will I harm the engine by running with it disconnected? I've read alternately that the car will refuse to start or the ECU will apply a 'known safe' map. It clearly starts, so does it default to something?
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-25-2018, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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A little update on this, as things briefly looked better - I drove to work on Monday and suddenly had an intermittently working turbo. It seemed to be inconsistent and not quite right, so I plugged in the OBD2 reader again when I got home and saw that the IAT meter was intermittently working. Basically, when I had a reading I had boost, and when it dropped back to -40c I had none.

I am planning on finding my multimeter and checking that the voltage towards the MAF is consistent, and will probably buy a new MAF if it is. On the off chance that the wiring itself looks like a problem, can anyone let me know where the other end of it is connected? I haven't yet been able to trace it.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-25-2018, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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...I should add that it has been back in limp mode since Monday.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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New MAF arrived this morning and was fitted. I drove to a local city and back today (around 90 miles in total) and found that, although the engine is massively more responsive and perky, it is still in limp mode and the IAT sensor still reports -40. The error codes remain.

Torque Pro does report (as in the screenshot above) that 'N' fault-free drive cycles need to be completed for these to clear. Does this mean I just need to wait for the ECU to decide that things are actually ok before it resets the sensor?
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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After about 160km, the car suddenly decided it was fixed! I had a blissful day of normal performance yesterday.

Today, it's gone back a notch and is unable to decide between no boost and all of the boost. On the basis that the MAF/IAT sensor is new and clearly worked for 100% of yesterday and 50% of today, I'm going to try and fish out the other end of the cable and clean it, and - if i can get the whole thing out - check for breaks or shorts. Aside from this, I'm out of ideas.

Have no other Cee'd owners had problems like this?
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2018, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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A short update for any still reading this - the car stayed in limp mode with no turbo since the last post, so I took it to the local Kia garage and had them run their diagnostic on it. They told me the MAP sensor was dead, so I've bought an fitted a new one.

It has been five days since this - the car is a lot perkier, but still reporting two fault codes and still in limp mode. I'm on the verge of giving up, to be honest. Nobody on the internet or in the dealer seems to really understand this kind of problem, so I have a nasty feeling this has become a money pit.
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