2009 Sedona P0171 and P0374 Ideas? - Kia Forum

 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy 2009 Sedona P0171 and P0374 Ideas?

My 2009 Sedona is throwing out a P0171 (lean bank 1) and a P0374 (high res timing signal A no pulses). There are not any driveability problems or symptoms. I've just replaced the crank position sensor and the firewall (bank 1 upstream) O2 sensor. I already had replaced the downstream bank 1 O2 sensor a while back. Any ideas? Bank 1 camshaft sensor perhaps?


As a side note, for anyone interested, I was able to replace the bank 1 upstream sensor without removing the upper intake. It's not impossible but it wasn't easy.

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 02:06 AM
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Wow, for starters hat's off for being able to get at that upstream bank 1 sensor without having to pull the plenum off. You must have rubber arms 😂.

You already replaced both bank 1 O2 sensors, so you know it's not them. An observation scanner could have told you that, by showing you their voltage readings. In any event, did you try cleaning/check your MAF sensor???

There's another thread on this lean code. In that thread I wrote that vacuum leaks are often the cause of system lean. Then it's something like a clogged injector or low fuel pressure to bad MAF sensor.

What do your fuel trims say? Usually the ECU throws a DTC lean code when your long term fuel trends gets above 20. If you have a high long term fuel trends and you jump on the highway, does it go away? Since your throttle body is wide open at highway speed/load, you should see your long term fuel trends work their way back to (close to) zero since an open throttle body should negate a small vacuum leak. In theory the ECU would adjust the throttle plate position to absorb or account for the unmetered air entering the system.

If however, your long term fuel trends stay high under load you likely have a fuel delivery problem or some other problem aside from a vacuum leak (unless your vacuum leak is catastrophic in which case you'd obviously know, because you'd probably be misfiring at idle but you already said you don't have drivability issue).

There are a number of things that can cause a system lean code but vacuum leaks and fuel delivery probably account for 99% of the causes. At this point your best tool to diagnosing your problem is going to be an obd2 scanner, if you don't already have one. It'll help point you in the right direction, at which point you can start checking off the usual suspects.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. I just now saw it. I ended up replacing the bank 1 (rear) cam sensor. Everything seemed good. No codes for over 100 miles. Now I'm getting a P0387 (crank sensor low voltage sensor b) and the P0171 (lean on bank 1) is back. I'm assuming the codes are related. But maybe not.

I don't see any obvious vacuum leaks and the intake hose seems fine. I have only a basic handheld scanner to retrieve codes. I have no way to check fuel trims or retrieve any other data "live" so to speak. What kind would you recommend for that? Any that are reasonably priced? I have not cleaned the MAF.

As far as the P0387, does the van(2009) have two crank sensors? Where the heck is the 2nd one? If it doesn't have a second sensor, what does crank circuit b reference? This is driving me nuts? Any help would be appreciated. I wish I had a service manual.

I'm also getting (for the 2nd 3rd time) a P0574 (speed control vehicle speed too high) which is strange as the vehicle speed is never too high and cruise control is never used.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 04:35 PM
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You only have 1 crankshaft thus only 1 sensor (CKP). You do have 2 camshaft (DOHC) sensors located on top of the valve covers.

Got this 👇 from a tech website...

***Sometimes and in some models, low battery voltage or a weak starter can trigger a Crankshaft Position Sensor code. Before replacing any parts, recharge or replaced battery.

***Possible causes***
-Faulty crankshaft position sensor
-Crankshaft position sensor harness is open or shorted
-Crankshaft position sensor circuit poor electrical connection
-Signal plate may be damaged
-Starter motor may be faulty
-Starting system circuit
-Dead or weak battery

If you checked your battery, checked your starter voltage, replaced the sensor and there was no issues with the sensor harness or breaks in the wire insulation anywhere that could cause a short, then you probably need to take it into a shop so they can look at it.

Sorry, I'm no help on the cruise control speed thing. Sounds like maybe a problem with the cruise control module on the steering column or a speed sensor issue but I just don't know enough about that system, to give you any good advice.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Well the odd P0387 code has not come back but I'm still getting the original P0171 and P0374. I swapped the new cam sensor in the rear bank (A) with the front bank sensor just to rule out having a bad part. Cleared codes and I'm still getting the two pending codes within 15 miles. CEL comes on about 20-30 miles later. So at least I know the new sensor is fine.

Wiring looks fine, vacuum hoses look fine. The van has just over 100k. Runs great. If I didn't have to deal with emissions testing, this wouldn't be a big deal.

I'm thinking the two codes have to be related. I think the P0171 will go away once I get the P0374 figured out.

Any other ideas specifically on the P0374 (high res timing signal bank a)?
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 02:03 PM
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You should always replace sensors in pairs. And while you have only one crankshaft sensor, you do have 2 camshaft sensors and both camshaft sensors work in tangent with the crankshaft sensor. Without having 2 new sensors in the cams along with the new crankshaft sensor you installed, you haven't really eliminated it being a sensor issue have you? Because I'm assuming you moved the bank 2 sensor to bank 1, yes?

That said, if it's not a sensor issue then you probably have to get it into a shop to hook up the camshaft sensor to a scope to look at the signal and compare it to mfg reference values to determine if you have a bigger internal problem on your hands having to do with the camshaft ring. It shouldn't take more than an hour of shop time to do this (or find a mobile mechanic off Craigslist for $60/hr that had a O-scope but make sure they have access to online shop manuals for your make/model to get the mfgs reference specs). Be careful with this DTC, if you are having genuine issues with your crankshaft/camshaft/timing..it can [potentially] have catastrophic consequences for your engine.

Question: are you experiencing ANY timing symptoms? Misfiring, poor fuel mileage, knocking/pinging????
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 02:23 PM
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*correction, you may want to have the CRANKSHAFT (not the camshaft) sensor output looked at by a shop.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Hi,

I appreciate the response. I know you're trying to help. The issue remains. Still getting the P0171. Not getting the P0374 but the P0387 is back.


I would argue that I did indeed eliminate either cam sensor as being the culprit. Also, as I mentioned the car runs perfectly. There are zero symptoms other than an annoying light on the dash mocking me.

We have about 8 months before emissions are due so we'll probably just deal with it down the road. I'll update if we end up taking it in to a shop.
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