Low Oil Pressure at Idle When Warm-P0011/P0021 Codes After Oil Change - Page 2 - Kia Forum

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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@discoken and @rrr chevez - So here's the situation todate. I took the van to a mechanic of over 35 years experience that I wholly trust as he's done work on my other vehicles and has always been honest and forthright with me. He put an actual guage on the oil pressure sending unit and it was indeed correctly indicating a low oil pressure condition. His search of Alldata and other sources could not point to any obvious cause. With no other information available I decided to have him replace the oil pump. I know that oil pumps are notoriously reliable and hardly ever fail but in this case, this was our "last ditch effort" at attempting a fix although there was probably less than a 50-50 chance that a new oil pump would solve the problem.

So, what was the end result? The new oil pump did not solve the problem. The low oil pressure light comes on when the oil has warmed up and stays lit until the engine reaches 1400 RPM. When replacing the oil pump my mechanic also replaced the oil and filter I had just installed. This oil and filter had been in the vehicle for a total of 9 miles.

So, to recap, after 3 oil and filter changes over the last 22 miles and a new oil pump I'm still left with an unsolved situation. My mechanic thinks that there is a main bearing issue with the engine which would require an engine rebuild and that can't be justified economically for a 12 model year old vehicle with 150,000 miles.

I'm going to change the oil (a 4th time) and refill with the thickest oil I can find (20W-50) and use the van as a truck for short runs to the Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy, ect. for things that don't easily fit in a car's truck. I will use it for such short trips until it starts coughing up parts on the pavement. It's too bad because I got to like it with it's Infinity sound system, sunroof and memory seats/steering wheel/pedals. However, I think I've run my course with Korean manufactured motor vehicles. They just don't seem to be as durable as "Detroit iron".

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 09:33 PM
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You said the light stays on until you get to around 1400rpm.

I'm wondering if you have some sludge in the engine somewhere blocking a passageway and once the engine gets warmed up the sludge thins out enough to allow good oil flow.

You could try flushing the engine once or twice before you change over to a heavier oil, to see if that does anything. Be mindful that there's a caveat to flushing an older engine. The flush could work so well it reveals a leaky gasket in something like your valve covers.

Just curious, does the engine make any odd sounds (like the lifters) like it's being starved for??
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 02:31 AM
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I think you should try referring back to the trouble codes that originally came on with your CEL.
These indicate a problem with the camshaft timing. Most likely the oil control valves which
come into play from idle to about 2000 rpm which is when your oil pressure light comes on.
Perhaps one of the filters is blocked at low rpm which then clears when accelerating or an OCV is stuck.

If the bearings have gone bad I would think that you would have seen some metal in the old oil or filter.

Do you have access to an OBD reader with live data which would tell you whether your OCV are
opening and closing at the appropriate time.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discoken View Post
I think you should try referring back to the trouble codes that originally came on with your CEL.
These indicate a problem with the camshaft timing. Most likely the oil control valves which
come into play from idle to about 2000 rpm which is when your oil pressure light comes on.
Perhaps one of the filters is blocked at low rpm which then clears when accelerating or an OCV is stuck.

If the bearings have gone bad I would think that you would have seen some metal in the old oil or filter.

Do you have access to an OBD reader with live data which would tell you whether your OCV are
opening and closing at the appropriate time.
Any of the VVT solenoid filters being blocked will not cause a low oil pressure condition.

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Originally Posted by BadDog42 View Post
He put an actual guage on the oil pressure sending unit and it was indeed correctly indicating a low oil pressure condition.

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 07:53 AM
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My guess is the camshaft DTC on both bank 1 and 2 are related to the low oil pressure. Solve the oil flow problem and I bet that DTC goes away.

For reference, I once got a camshaft position DTC within 5mins after I added a stop leak to my oil. (it thinned it out). I immediately changed the oil and the error code went away and has never come back.

If I'm not wrong, the mechanic confirmed low oil pressure even after replacing the pump, filter and proper grade oil??? Seems to me that indicates a blockage somewhere between the pump and oil pressure sending unit. This is why I suggested flushing the engine to maybe thin out any sludge that might be blocking an oil passage(s). Watta you have to lose at this point? If the car has a genuine low oil pressure situation at this point, it's basically undrivable as it's eventually going to sieze up or enter into limp mode leaving you stranded somewhere.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 07:58 AM
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Plus, failed or failing OCV's (solenoids) almost always give you a performance problem like poor fuel economy, top end noise or sluggish performance. If they're not opening and closing at the right time, you'll know it. And I would be highly doubtful both OCV's failed simultaneously.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Finally Figured Out My Low Oil Pressure Problem

To rrrchavez, ron1004 and discoken: Thanks for all your help with this. I was tearing my hair out trying to determine what was happening here.

Just as a stroke of luck I happened to find a YouTube video of an oil change on a 2007 Kia Sedona just like mine. In the video the person filming his oil change describes what is called a “core” and a relief value component that is attached to the core which is affixed to the bottom of the oil filter "cap". The “core” looks like a cylindrical plastic basket with a pointer-like protrusion from the bottom while the relief valve is shorter cylinder with a valve assembly that resembles a very thick washer. The core/relief valve combination is affixed to the bottom side of the large black oil filter cap and the oil filter is supposed to be slipped over the core-relief valve combined unit and then installed in the cup/receptacle attached to the engine. It seems that this is the mechanism that moderates/controls the oil pressure in the engine and keeps it within acceptable bounds.

Guess what!! My vehicle didn’t have these things in the oil filter receptacle.

It appears that the Walmart technician that performed the oil change on April 22 discarded the “core” and relief valve assembly with the old filter and just plopped the new filter into the engines receptacle and screwed down the cap. Without the core/relief valve components there is no “backstop” against which the oil pump can build pressure against.

I’ve since purchased a replacement core, relief valve and installed them in the vehicle. The low oil pressure instrument panel light no longer illuminates. I've made a claim against Walmart for the cost of all the efforts I put forth to try to figure out what was going on. Their insurance company has denied my claim for no other reason other than they can. I'm proceeding to small claims court.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BadDog42 View Post
.... I've made a claim against Walmart for the cost of all the efforts I put forth to try to figure out what was going on. Their insurance company has denied my claim for no other reason other than they can. I'm proceeding to small claims court.
Sorry to say, but IMO you're not going to win this one. Your mistake was to change the oil and filter, instead of taking it immediately to a shop for diagnosis. Their lawyers will be able to argue that it was not the filter Walmart installed on the vehicle, at the time the problem was discovered. So even though you know what the truth is, there will be no way to prove that the parts were discarded by Walmart, and did not happen in the subsequent oil change.

But who knows, perhaps I'm wrong and the wheels of justice will turn your way. Good luck with it, and also find a good independent shop to do all of your future oil changes.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Kiaguy02 - The problem was fixed after driving 29 miles with the internals missing from the oil filter "cup". I am going to argue that I would have no motive to try to destroy my own engine and that when I myself changed the oil and filter after about 12 miles of driving, I didn't realize that the filter "cup" was missing the core and relief valve assembly as I'd never been inside the cup before. When I changed the oil I found a filter lying there and replaced it just like it was found. My mechanic was also unaware that Hyundai/Kia engines had these components inside the filter receptacle as he did the same thing I did (but about 10 miles later after replacing the oil pump).

The bottom line: It took me $775 to try everthing I could to fix this (inlcuding a new oil pump that wasn't necessary but the only thing I and my mechanic could think of doing) and only came across the solution accidentally. Walmart farms out all insurance claims to a company called Claims Management Inc. (CMI) that is in the business of saying "no" although I documented this all with pictures and receipts. I'm just glad that the engine seemed to have not suffered catastrophic damage from all this. I have no knocking or valve train noise and I've put 2,000 miles on the van since this happened so I have to be thankful for that. Oh, by the way, I've had oil changes done by Walmart on this car and other 2007 Sedonas/Entourages about 25 times over the years and this was my first bad experience. However, I will now be doing oil changes myself.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:14 PM
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With150k of wear miles on the Van, I would have tried 5w/30 oil from the start! Not 5w/20

Some previous Hyundai/Kia vehicles: 2002 Santa Fe LX V6 AWD, 2005 Tucson LX V6 AWD, 2010 Tucson GLS 2.4L AWD, 2011 Sportage EX 2.4L AWD, 2015 Sorento Ex V6 AWD
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