2.5L K5 Engine Liners & heads - Rover Kv6 - Kia Forum

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post #1 of 2 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
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Location: SE QLD, Australia
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Drives: 2001 Kia Carnival 2.5L manual & 2000 Carnival Auto
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2.5L K5 Engine Liners & heads - Rover Kv6


_Some comments I made over at the Rover 800 forum

The liner had suffered abuse from being driven around with coolant water coming in via
initially the cylinder head/air manifold gasket, then via the blown Multi layer steel gasket
After it cooked from engine overheating.
Then it sat full of water for a year - waiting for my "rescue" from previous owner.

So I don't think chances of anything other than being just head gaskets.
Engine pressure usually keeps coolant out of engine oil unless there is liner movement failure. SO if no significant oil/coolant mixing you should just be looking at a little mayonnaise under the oil filler cap.
If its oil in the coolant expansion cap - then its a major liner rebuild usually.
You will find that kseal will have cemented the liners fairly tight, even if they were leaking slightly. So even if source of problem - liners may be ok now...

Honestly, upon the Kia K5 variant of the KV6 engine.
Changing or resealing the liners is a pain.
The engine has to come out, cause the transmission lower case has bolts that can only be removed from the engine oil seal/transmission interface.

The lower case removal needed for access to the piston conrods.
I've read about warnings regarding the rotation of crankshaft whilst heads removed.
But upon the K5 let me assure you that I had to get a long punch to slog the liner out from below. (careful of scratching block pocket walls !)
And to bang the new one back - I had to heat the block to a nice warm ambience and pound away with a block of softwood/rubber sheet.
(protect that important liner top ring surface !)
And let liner creep back down in stages. I'd bang, the rewarm the block with some external map gas torch externally to lower block side. Then bang again. Used Hylomar universal sealant, worked well smeared all over liner.
Rolled up into a nice bead where it seated at top & bottom of engine liner seats. Looks better than the silicone product used upon other liners...
That stuff is peeling away - even though no leaks thru line movement.

And the expense of the engine oil seals, oil pump gasket, transmission driveshaft seals. Replaced piston/liner/rings as an assembly - not cheap for parts.

I just wacked the engine back together on other faulty liner vehicle.
And crossed my fingers that Bars leak would stop the liner coolant inflow.
And lived with compression loss from honing liner walls smooth.
It appears to have sealed up well enough.
(shoved a borescope down sparkplug hole to check for wetness after initial run)

Having trouble with the hydraulic tappet caps being clogged/seized, and
valve seats not in best condition, still some crud to dissolve away with
good runs with petrol additive. Being cheap not redoing heads fully - may have had to pull everything apart anyways.... So low engine compression on some cylinders - slowly improving. You can see some valves not fully seating with the borescope. I honestly never saw that when the heads were out laying on the floor ! Aaargh. I check for carbon on valve seats now though !

Check liner heights are protruding above block.
Important they are sticking up same amount - or avoid using the MLS gasket.
Often the block seat material creeps - and lets the Liner tilt down towards exhaust side - hottest side.
And check for any fire ring grooves upon cylinder head - may indicate soft head - you'll be replacing head gasket often, if you decide to reuse after skimming head....

A borescope will always show creeping moisture at headgasket interface
if MLS has been cooked. I use the elastomeric Rolled rim gaskets now.
As there has only been one block I saw with one cylinder bank of dead flat level liners... And funny enough that was the only good head MLS gasket I encountered.

Family man with Kia Carnival 2001
KV6 petrol engine variant.
Rebuilds after years of using as a 4WD substitute...
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post #2 of 2 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 04:02 AM Thread Starter
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Uhm, be wary if not pulling apart cylinder head to clean it.
Others can confirm re special tools...
The Rover camshaft timing/tooling is different to my K5 Kia carnival experience
- ours is more user friendly...!
The camshaft cover often gets clogged with carbon/sludge.
Also you can check if any tappets are blocked,seized
- should be slight give with a finger press.
(Don't panic if solid - so long as they slide in head & stay in original positions)
May contribute to later problems, but then they may also free up as well !
Blocked oil passages can contribute to possible valve tappet/hydraulic lash adjusters seizing
- and bigger problems of valves encountering pistons.
Have seen blocked up cams starved for oil at the oil seal ends,
actually started melting aluminium and tearing grooves around the shaft seats.
Tappets must go back into original locations - and keep well oiled to slide freely.

However, if just wacking it back together, at the very least rotate valve heads protrude from seat.
Have a visual for any black/carbon fouling of seat area.
Some light use of emery paper may dislodge it for the valve spring to fully seat valve head.
Otherwise, there are fuel additives that can help to clean up combustion chambers.
Some work better than others....
A tappet cleaner additive to the engine oil is always good idea if any prolonged noise in valve train. Is worth trying. - again some are better than others.
Ding the cylinder head surface LIGHTLY at the outer edge with a small screwdriver edge,
then do the same closer to a fire ring impression.
If any dents left in cylinder head surface, or the two locations sound/feel different - you have a soft head...
Don't waste any money on it.
Use it if ya want - but it could go again at any time
Use Bars Leak Coolant sealant in engine. Pour it down the top radiator hose towards engine before refilling coolant.
It will assist in sealing any leaking gasket/coolant interfaces. Not much use for the fire rings though...
Use some hylomar universal or loctite 515 on side of gasket contacting head.
Just a dollop between the two rolled fire rings - will assist in slowing engine blowby as the rings sink into the head...
The rolled rings are so close together between the bores.
Only apply hylomar to any scratches/grooves - as the gasket elastomeric is best against clean surfaces..
And it works out from underneath any gasket tabs, and would loosen head bolt tension slightly....
With a softer head already marked, and using elastomeric gasket
I'd increase head bolt torque to somewhere between 90deg & 180Deg turn past 20NM setting.
With an oiled head bolt, and some grease under bolt head, you can tell when the bolts
reach a tight bounce state, a nice single smooth twist on the socket spanner in correct tightening order.
Use a couple of tightening stages spread thru-out the day to get the 20Nm start state. Lets the gasket/head seat properly prior tensioning.
Correct inside to outside tightening is essential - possible reason for a banana bend on your existing head.
And undo bolts in reverse order - otherwise similar risks....
DO not retension headbolts later after running is my opinion.

I have no opinion re timing/skimming/mls/elastomeric gasket thicknesses.
Our K5 heads have slight indentations in them you can use to verify how much a head has had skimmed off already - if at all.
Provided that ok, I've only just wacked everything back together.
And most people unable to discern any performance/detonation difference with our fuels in Oz.

And then I reckon avoiding any steep hills/towing in a soft head car !
You'll probably have gotten the rebuild bug by then & have another go at fixing it when it goes again !
Your engine sounds like it got really overheated at one point, marked heads, sunken liners etc.
(Is there no "lip" edge protrusion of liners to be felt at all above the block? Odd)
Treat it as a learning experience, As I predict you'll get about 20k km at most - if it fires up good post your work....
I know others swear by their Rovers, and even the Kia carnival is near a 4wd performance when running well.
I can just imagine how a lighter Rover would zip along.
Great engine WHEN NO PROBLEMS. Just wished they had used another alloy that withstood heating better.
Also not very forgiving of us that were used to throwing any old engine oil & casually treating service periods & coolant refills....
(Yes - that's how I got started !)

Re: misfires - Check your spark plug lead resistances.
Check spark plug spark performance against the car chassis
Were original plugs fouled with burning coolant etc?
Get those valves seated properly - apart from the compression - fuel costs money !

re subject of thread - Vehicle of mine.
The bars leak appears to have sealed the weeping cylinder. (For now)
But like you, there appears some sticky valves and piston rings.
Letting compression escape - the leakdown tester hisses air into the air intake manifold, and one (non-weeping) cylinder crankcase....
So, I'm planning on a Looong drive once I replace an engine mount.
Otherwise its a complete valvetrain pulldown & clean job.
I recently bought a valve compressor - so ready to experiment on that more fiddly next step !
Gaskets & coolant issues easy by comparison !
Though replacing a Liner was actually a slog of a job.

Family man with Kia Carnival 2001
KV6 petrol engine variant.
Rebuilds after years of using as a 4WD substitute...
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