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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Cylinder bank 1 running rich, misfire codes, and rough idle - p0172 or p0175 codes?

2005 Sedona, 135k miles. Rough idle and miss with rich fuel trims on one bank.
Negative fuel trims on bank one (cylinders 1,3,5) longterm trim hits -15. At speed, the trims are not as negative, maybe -4 longterm. The CEL eventually comes on with P0300, P0301, P0303, and P0305: General misfire, and cyls 1,2,and 3.
The other bank looks fine with fuel trim.
Changed spark plugs and wires. Problem still there.
Vacuum stays high at idle, and recovers quickly when going to higher rpm.
I did a compression check. 140 to 150 psi.
Used a fuel pressure gauge. 42 psi while idling. Did a 30 minute check after shut down and pressure stayed at 42.
A garage suggested coils, but why wouldn't both banks be having issues with fuel trim?
A vacuum leak just affecting the one bank seems unlikely as well.
I have sprayed carb cleaner, as well as tried propane in the area of the lower intake gasket without any changes in how the engine runs.
A throttle body or IAC valve would affect both banks too?

Leaning towards an exhaust system restriction. Maybe loosen the bank 1 cat so the exhaust has a place to go?


Last edited by ron1004; 01-16-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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Has anyone had p0172 or p0175 codes?

If you did, was it the cam belt?
In my quest for the cure to the my afore-posted misfire and idle problem, one cited reason was a cam belt needing replacement. The vehicle had one installed about 4 years ago, but I do not know the mileage at replacement.
If someone had a belt causing the idle/misfire problem without the p0172 or p0175 codes, it would help to know that.
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 11:21 AM
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If you did, was it the cam belt?
In my quest for the cure to the my afore-posted misfire and idle problem, one cited reason was a cam belt needing replacement. The vehicle had one installed about 4 years ago, but I do not know the mileage at replacement.
If someone had a belt causing the idle/misfire problem without the p0172 or p0175 codes, it would help to know that.
It reasonably easy to pull the covers and confirm that all the timing marks are good, just as a process of elimination, but I haven't heard of a belt causing those codes.

https://www.obd-codes.com/p0175

BTW, the threads were merged so that others can at least see what you've already done and checked.

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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sedonarunscrappy View Post
"......Leaning towards an exhaust system restriction. Maybe loosen the bank 1 cat so the exhaust has a place to go?........
I unbolted the cat. No change in the fuel trims. This joint is downstream of the the first o2 sensor. So the exhaust was exiting before the second sensor.

Perhaps I should have pulled the battery and forced it into open loop?
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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On another note:
I used an ohm meter on the spark plug connections for each coil (aka secondary windings). I got 10.7 to 10.8 ohms for all 3. An online repair manual for the sedona stated it should be around 11.4 to 15 ohms, and replacement was indicated.
Has anyone seen figures in a manual the acceptable ohm range?

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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sedonarunscrappy View Post
On another note:
I used an ohm meter on the spark plug connections for each coil (aka secondary windings). I got 10.7 to 10.8 ohms for all 3. An online repair manual for the sedona stated it should be around 11.4 to 15 ohms, and replacement was indicated.
Has anyone seen figures in a manual the acceptable ohm range?
Your ohm readings on the primary side of the ignition coils is acceptable.

Continuity of the ign coil primary might be good, but the secondary high voltage side may be bad.

What makes you think the problem is with the ignition coils?

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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sedonarunscrappy View Post
.... I did a compression check. 140 to 150 psi....
Did you do all 6 cylinders, or are those numbers only for 1,3, and 5? That compression seems low to me, but I don't know the spec for your engine, so that's based only on other vehicles I've worked on.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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testing procedure I used:
"Measure secondary coil resistance making the connections as shown and measuring the resistance between the high-voltage terminals of the ignition coil. There should be 11.4-15.6 ohms of resistance. "

The given readings were for the secondary per the attached picture:

From what I have seen on another site, the high voltage winding has both ends connected to a different spark plug.
All the coils are as old as the car, and I am looking at everything.

The entire section on testing primary was more involved as shown from the testing section of the online manual:
https://www.autozone.com/repairinfo/...96b43f80376169

They want a 3v power supply for the primary test. Can I make one from 2 d cells?
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedonarunscrappy View Post
testing procedure I used:
"Measure secondary coil resistance making the connections as shown and measuring the resistance between the high-voltage terminals of the ignition coil. There should be 11.4-15.6 ohms of resistance. "
Not what I'd expect on the secondary high voltage winding, but I'm thinking of the traditional old style coils, which this is not.
Quote:
The given readings were for the secondary per this picture:


From what I have seen on another site, the high voltage winding has both ends connected to a different spark plug.
That is the waste spark arrangement, and the above picture is not that - the picture is a single coil dedicated to one spark plug.
Quote:
All the coils are as old as the car, so I am looking at everything.
The coils should be fine, and I'd relay on a confirmation check that you get spark when cranking, or if you get misfire codes and the plugs are confirmed good.

Are you following some sort of diagnostic approach?

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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ron1004 View Post
It reasonably easy to pull the covers and confirm that all the timing marks are good, just as a process of elimination, but I haven't heard of a belt causing those codes.

https://www.obd-codes.com/p0175
Have you checked all the suggestions in that link?

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