Hyundai, Kia Owners File Lawsuit Due To Engine Fire Risks - Kia Forum

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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-16-2018, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Hyundai, Kia Owners File Lawsuit Due To Engine Fire Risks

https://www.motor1.com/news/297762/h...t-engine-fire/


Last edited by ron1004; 12-17-2018 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Descriptive title added
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 04:03 PM
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Okay, a 2015 vehicle caught fire in 2018, ostensibly because of lack of lubrication/engine failure. I'll tell you a little secret - if oil passages are blocked and crankshaft lubrication is reduced, it ain't going to take three years to seize the rod bearings. More like three minutes.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 04:17 AM
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Okay, a 2015 vehicle caught fire in 2018, ostensibly because of lack of lubrication/engine failure. I'll tell you a little secret - if oil passages are blocked and crankshaft lubrication is reduced, it ain't going to take three years to seize the rod bearings. More like three minutes.
lubrication isn't like an on / off switch. It is entirely possible to have a slightly reduced flow of oil, that over a period of time slowly becomes worse, and lead to failure of the bearings after quite some time in use. When you combine a reduced flow with the introduction of oil varnish and sludge particles accumulating in the oil journals, can lead to failure of bearings. As the lubrication level reduces, temperatures in the bearings slowly rises, and eventually leads to complete failure.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 07:14 AM
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If there was a widespread bona fide issue, there would be a large number of purchasers with blown engines (with or without fires) during the many years and many models of vehicles these slip-and-fall lawyers claim there was an issue. I haven't seen any evidence of that.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 07:25 AM
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i would agree if the passages a suddenly blocked or seriously restricted, but pcguy has a point. This might well be a case of slow strangulation rather than decapitation, if you follow the way I've drifted.

And a number of other factors are at play here as well of course, maintenance schedule, oil used, operating environment etc etc.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 03:33 PM
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If there was a widespread bona fide issue, there would be a large number of purchasers with blown engines (with or without fires) during the many years and many models of vehicles these slip-and-fall lawyers claim there was an issue. I haven't seen any evidence of that.
There has been a not inconsequential number of people who have experienced rod knock and engine seizure. It's not just a rumor, but a real quantifiable group. I am not saying it's something that will happen to a majority of vehicles, but where there is smoke there tends to be fire somewhere.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 05:49 PM
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There has been a not inconsequential number of people who have experienced rod knock and engine seizure. It's not just a rumor, but a real quantifiable group. I am not saying it's something that will happen to a majority of vehicles, but where there is smoke there tends to be fire somewhere.
For the newer cars, I've not seen any evidence of this. I've looked at all of the complaint sites and followed the lawsuits. In 2017 there were 72,000 Sportages sold in the U.S. and in 2018 there are even more. I'd be surprised if more than 100 of these cars had this problem. That's a fraction of 1%. Even 1% is more than 1400 cars (over 2 years) and if the problem were that severe, it would be all over the news and complaint sites. So the probability that you will have this problem is rather small given current data. The people on this board tend to be more car enthusiasts than average and thus push their cars harder. So it's not just a "majority of vehicles" that will not have problems, but the VAST majority of vehicles. It sucks if you are one of those people affected, but I believe if you drive your car rationally, like most SUV's, the likelihood you will have any issues is extremely small.

Now, it would just be my luck that the gods of car failures choose me as their next victim.....
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-18-2018, 06:11 PM
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For the newer cars, I've not seen any evidence of this. I've looked at all of the complaint sites and followed the lawsuits. In 2017 there were 72,000 Sportages sold in the U.S. and in 2018 there are even more. I'd be surprised if more than 100 of these cars had this problem. That's a fraction of 1%. Even 1% is more than 1400 cars (over 2 years) and if the problem were that severe, it would be all over the news and complaint sites. So the probability that you will have this problem is rather small given current data. The people on this board tend to be more car enthusiasts than average and thus push their cars harder. So it's not just a "majority of vehicles" that will not have problems, but the VAST majority of vehicles. It sucks if you are one of those people affected, but I believe if you drive your car rationally, like most SUV's, the likelihood you will have any issues is extremely small.

Now, it would just be my luck that the gods of car failures choose me as their next victim.....
Well, somehow they have gathered together a group of 350 examples of engine fire due to catastrophic rod bearing failure leading to a hole in the block, and oil starting a fire. I would be curious to see their data set.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-19-2018, 10:05 AM
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One thing for sure, these engines have tight tolerances, at least my 2.0 Turbo does. It doesn't use any oil at all from one oil change to the next. For that to be, the oil control on the valve guides and piston rings has to be quite good. That said, anything that reduces those and other tolerances even a tiny bit more, could introduce problems down the road.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 12-19-2018, 10:19 AM
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Well, somehow they have gathered together a group of 350 examples of engine fire due to catastrophic rod bearing failure leading to a hole in the block, and oil starting a fire. I would be curious to see their data set.
So, we're talking about 350 out of 440,000 vehicles. Like I said, this doesn't mean the problem isn't important, but objectively, that ratio is 0.08% or one out of every 1250 cars. We're probably dealing with even less incidence in the case of cracked spark plugs. It sucks if you are the one who gets this failure, but that doesn't change the odds of it happening to you. When the incidence is that low, there are typically multiple reasons (i.e., perfect storm) for these to occur. This would include not only quality control defects, but user controlled issues like driving behavior, maintenance, problems not fixed, etc. From a corporate standpoint, it is really difficult to find a general solution when the problem is this small. It is almost impossible to identify specific cars with this issue ahead of time as manufacturing defects/tolerances are random and generally follow a bell shaped curve. Typically, design defects have a far higher incidence than we see here. That said, while the vast majority of us won't have a problem like this, we will suffer from reduced resale values on our cars as most consumers blow these issues way out of proportion.

We don't know the specific data -- and unless there is a court case (and not a settlement) -- we will never know. If you've owned your car for a couple of years and have not had these problems, the probability you will have them in the future is even less.
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