Suspected catalytic converter (CAT) failures - design flaw - Kia Forum

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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Suspected catalytic converter (CAT) failures - design flaw

There is another one - catalytic converter 'ceramic' material crumbling and depending on the design of exhaust manifold - getting ceramic particles back into cylinder scratching the walls etc... causing total failures in the end.


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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 08:47 PM
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There is another one - catalytic converter 'ceramic' material crumbling and depending on the design of exhaust manifold - getting ceramic particles back into cylinder scratching the walls etc... causing total failures in the end.
Where did you hear of this, and how did the CAT contents go backwards back into the cylinders?

This thread is about Theta II engine failures - is that CAT issue you mention related?

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
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The design flaw isn't limited to Theta II, thing is there is suction created during engine start and shut off where airflow pushes back into cylinders from exhaust side, right where the cat is and blows debris into cylinders.

There are many videos available thou not in English, here is one example, they remove cats and replace them with flame suppressors, second cat (if present) is far enough to affect engine and is left in its place:

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 06:57 AM
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The design flaw isn't limited to Theta II, thing is there is suction created during engine start and shut off where airflow pushes back into cylinders from exhaust side, right where the cat is and blows debris into cylinders.

There are many videos available thou not in English, here is one example, they remove cats and replace them with flame suppressors, second cat (if present) is far enough to affect engine and is left in its place:

Корейская КАТАЛИКО*ЕЗКА - часть II - YouTube
Moved to a new thread, seeing it was somewhat off topic in the one you posted.

I'm interested to hear others comments on this, but my thoughts are that this CAT configuration is quite typical of many manufacturers, and I don't see any reports. Also odd that its not been raised in the North American market where manufacturers are usually promptly taken to task on design issues.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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IMHO, when an engine fails under warranty, dealer would replace whole engine and not look into the cause closely taking it apart and analyzing it.
Also, the material CAT is made of in Kia and Hyundai engines would warranty all their cars to be recalled, guess what it means to manufacturers... even if they know the root of the engine failures they'd keep it under a rug as long as they can or go bankrupt, those are the choices.

I'm not dissing Kia, but this design (cat too close to cylinders with exhaust mani design) and CAT material choice are big mistakes.
From what I understand and it's only my personal opinion, up to 40% of their newer engines will fail within 150K miles.

Also, in the video above, in addition to cat removal and during engine rebuild they use cast iron cylinder sleeves they press in instead of only re-boring cylinders and using over-sized pistons and often install oil squirters in the block to spray oil on underside of the piston. Most of those engines have a place (by design and built in) for the squirter all while they are never installed on purpose at factory. Same goes to Suzuki engines...
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 02:37 PM
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IMHO, when an engine fails under warranty, dealer would replace whole engine and not look into the cause closely taking it apart and analyzing it.
Also, the material CAT is made of in Kia and Hyundai engines would warranty all their cars to be recalled, guess what it means to manufacturers... even if they know the root of the engine failures they'd keep it under a rug as long as they can or go bankrupt, those are the choices.

I'm not dissing Kia, but this design (cat too close to cylinders with exhaust mani design) and CAT material choice are big mistakes.
From what I understand and it's only my personal opinion, up to 40% of their newer engines will fail within 150K miles.

Also, in the video above, in addition to cat removal and during engine rebuild they use cast iron cylinder sleeves they press in instead of only re-boring cylinders and using over-sized pistons and often install oil squirters in the block to spray oil on underside of the piston. Most of those engines have a place (by design and built in) for the squirter all while they are never installed on purpose at factory. Same goes to Suzuki engines...
Your speculation regarding the impact of the CAT location causing premature engine failure would effect many models and manufacturers, and I question why this has not been raised in North America where they typically lead in legal suites against suppliers and manufacturers.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Not just location but CAT material it's made of.
Legal battle may still be ahead.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 02:57 PM
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Not just location but CAT material it's made of.
Legal battle may still be ahead.
I'm guessing that this design (material and arrangement) has been in use by many manufactures for quite some time, which makes it odd that there hasn't yet been a law suite, particularly in North America.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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We'll see what happens, I only shared my observations based on seeing dozens of Kia and Hyundai (and others) engine rebuilds and personal opinions.
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