Can I Trust Synthetic Oil? - Page 3 - Kia Forum

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post #21 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 10:09 AM
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Also about the fords saying 5K mile intervales is a crock of crap. I just looked in my mustangs manual, it states oil changes every 3K miles. Hmmm where you getting your info??






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post #22 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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ICellKiaz brought in the comment about Ford and the 5 & 10K oil changes, which is true. Per the rebuttal of his 02 Mustang not allowing this, this is not an apples to apples comparison. IcellKiaz was referring to, I’m sure he’ll correct me if I’m wrong, present day and concerning the myth of 3K filter changes, not something of older technology per 3K oil changes. Also, ICellKiaz did not say “every” Ford but in the past couple of years it includes the majority of cars and several light duty trucks.

I briefly mentioned Honda and their new oil filter routine. I know I’ll be called a liar but recently several of their units now call for an oil filter change at every second oil change or every 10K miles.

I was going to get into warranty concerns regarding extended oil changes. A little patience and all would have been handled but my schedule is now too tight to elaborate.

US residents can read the magneson-moss act of 1975. Send me PMs or E-mails if there are any questions & I’ll address them after X-mas or early Jan.

There’s more than one service manager in my area that ended walking away with his tail between his legs when all I did was mention the words, Magneson Moss. It's a very powerful tool.

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post #23 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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I said Iíd share some personal service procedures. I was going to get into transmissions, rear ends and other areas in another thread for the benefit of all. But with all the distractions time wonít allow it, if ever. Perhaps if I get enough requests Iíll do something on my blog next year or on a small lube group I have on Yahoo. Since this treadís intention was about the safety of using synthetics in engines, Iíll continue to finish what I started in this regard.

My 07 Cobalt 2.2 Ecotech uses an OLM= oil life monitor. Now, Iíll admit this engine is not very hard on oil. FYI this car gets about 80% of itsí mileage on the highway.

At 1,400 I swung synthetic in along with my break-in additive mix. Around 6,500 miles I dumped it and used the same synthetic. At the second oil change the OLM was around 25% and I had reset it at 1,400. At 1,400 miles it was at 90%. Due the math, had I not reset it at 1,400 at 6,500 it would have been around 15%.

I have seen a couple setups like mine run over 8,000 miles before the OLM hit zero and have reports of a few at 8,500 or so.

Iíll not run my Cobaltís OLM to zero on conventional but I will on the current cycle with the XL 7,500 mile oil.

The next change itís getting 5W-30 Ė ASL 15-25,000 mile or a once a year oil. Unless a year passes first Iíll run the OLM to zero, reset it and run it down to 50%. Then Iíll run a UOA and see how things look, Iíll estimate at that time Iíll have about 11-12,000 miles logged in that cycle.

Like the Hyundai/Kia 100K warranty GM gives me a 100K-mile drive line warranty.

I can, by the limitations of my warranty, run my OLM to zero or change oil once a year, which ever comes first and use conventional 5W-30 that meets GM spec 6094M, which most 5W-30 oils do. FYI GM spec 6094M is a cold flow test.

Now a critic might say something like, ďThere goes your nice warranty with that 15,000 mile oil changeĒ. Amsoil will warranty my engine against oil related failures if I change the oil & filter per their recommendations plus I have the magneson-moss act on my side.

Our 2002 Olds Alero V-6, which I gave to our daughter 3 years ago will typically not trigger the OLM until around 4K if city driven which it gets a lot. Iíve seen it go as far as 6,800 miles before the OLM is triggered if 80-90% highway driven.

Around 5,000 I swung synthetic in it. Since I run synthetics here too I allowed the OLM to trigger and typically I had let it run another 2,000 miles or so until last Dec.

Since last Dec. the Olds has our TSO 0W-30 in it. TSO is an oil for up to 35,000 miles for normal service, 17,500 severe. Thereís about 13,000 miles on the cycle and the OLM has triggered 4 times in about 11 months.

Donít try my Olds work without guidance but it looks great!!!!!!!

Other than a leaky intake manifold gasket on the Olds, which this engine was known for & covered under warranty at 49,000 miles itís been a stellar performer. Should also mention the intake leak was found in a used oil analysis that I normally do on a car that is close to leaving warrantable guidelines. This car has 142,000 miles on it and still gets mid 30s for highway mileage.

An OLM has no clue whatís in the engine for oil. They were programmed based on properties of conventional oils meeting certain specs and those specs are not unusual. OLMs record engine RPMs, frequency of starts, lengths of starts, the type of driving youíre doing, engine temps, continual TPS movement etc.

I could get into a couple downfalls with OLMs but time wonít allow.

Now I can hear it, ďI donít have an OLM on my Mustang & KiaĒ. I know and my Sonata, Jeep & Vibe donít. My new Rondo wonít either.

The Vibe is short tripped to death and has about 35k miles. The vibe gets an oil change twice a year on XL synthetic, normally every 5,000 miles or so.

The 93 Jeep I-6 & is a beater I have out of state. Been using a HDEO synthetic for about 5 years, had used 5W-30 synthetic since about 40K miles. This poor thing has over 275K miles on it but the driveline is fairly sound. Now oil gets changed every fall or early winter, as it doesnít get used much from X-mas thru late April.

30 years ago I would have been fearful in running anything past 4,000 until I got into synthetics. Then 4K to me was high risk but if you could have seen the insides of some of my engines even back then youíd see the light.

Engines of 30-40 years ago were also much harder on oil than most of todayís engines unless you only know stop and wide open plus oil technology has made vast improvments both in conventional and synthetic.

Iím running out of time. Thereíll be more regarding our viscosity discussion.

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post #24 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 07:58 PM
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1fastkia,

I'm not even going to attempt to refute anything you said because it is just that unfounded. Let me give you a idea, I WORK FOR KIA and I know what is and is not covered by warranty. I also have a background in Mechanical and Petroleum engineering. The only reason I bought a Kia was the ability to get replacement parts for next to nothing and the fact that I don't want to rack up miles on my nicer cars. I might know a thing or two. I don't need to hear about your theorys that would violate Federal Law.

ICellKiaz out....
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post #25 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhj2000 View Post
ICellKiaz brought in the comment about Ford and the 5 & 10K oil changes, which is true. Per the rebuttal of his 02 Mustang not allowing this, this is not an apples to apples comparison. IcellKiaz was referring to, Iím sure heíll correct me if Iím wrong, present day and concerning the myth of 3K filter changes, not something of older technology per 3K oil changes. Also, ICellKiaz did not say ďeveryĒ Ford but in the past couple of years it includes the majority of cars and several light duty trucks.

I briefly mentioned Honda and their new oil filter routine. I know Iíll be called a liar but recently several of their units now call for an oil filter change at every second oil change or every 10K miles.

I was going to get into warranty concerns regarding extended oil changes. A little patience and all would have been handled but my schedule is now too tight to elaborate.

US residents can read the magneson-moss act of 1975. Send me PMs or E-mails if there are any questions & Iíll address them after X-mas or early Jan.

Thereís more than one service manager in my area that ended walking away with his tail between his legs when all I did was mention the words, Magneson Moss. It's a very powerful tool.
The mm act is for modifications done to a car, not maintence.




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post #26 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-29-2007, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICellKiaz View Post
1fastkia,

I'm not even going to attempt to refute anything you said because it is just that unfounded. Let me give you a idea, I WORK FOR KIA and I know what is and is not covered by warranty. I also have a background in Mechanical and Petroleum engineering. The only reason I bought a Kia was the ability to get replacement parts for next to nothing and the fact that I don't want to rack up miles on my nicer cars. I might know a thing or two. I don't need to hear about your theorys that would violate Federal Law.

ICellKiaz out....
Im gald you work at kia. Cause not every dealer is the same.. Call berlin city car center in williston vermont and ask them for yourself if you don't beleive me. Ill get you the number if youd like!
specsx of this site will tell you the same thing. We both use the same kia dealer....




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post #27 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-30-2007, 11:11 PM
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A manufacturer can not void your warranty for adhering to the service guidelines in the manual. If you let them get away with it, that means you are gullible and they are crooks. Do you honestly believe everything a DEALER tells you? They want someone to come in every 3,000 miles so that they can waste that person's money, time, and non-renewable natural resources while they laugh all the way to the bank. Seriously, think about it for a second and you might see a common denominator. They make statements that make their selves money...

So again. It's your time and money. But I got a better idea. Next time you feel compelled to change your oil out prematurely, call me, and instead we can take your $20 and flush it down the toilet together. The result is similar, but instead we will have some sort of entertainment for our $20 watching it swirl down instead of giving it to a liar that just wants your money. The car is fine either way.

You are correct, not every Kia dealer is the same. So you should find a new one and your buddy too.
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post #28 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICellKiaz View Post
A manufacturer can not void your warranty for adhering to the service guidelines in the manual. If you let them get away with it, that means you are gullible and they are crooks. Do you honestly believe everything a DEALER tells you? They want someone to come in every 3,000 miles so that they can waste that person's money, time, and non-renewable natural resources while they laugh all the way to the bank. Seriously, think about it for a second and you might see a common denominator. They make statements that make their selves money...

So again. It's your time and money. But I got a better idea. Next time you feel compelled to change your oil out prematurely, call me, and instead we can take your $20 and flush it down the toilet together. The result is similar, but instead we will have some sort of entertainment for our $20 watching it swirl down instead of giving it to a liar that just wants your money. The car is fine either way.

You are correct, not every Kia dealer is the same. So you should find a new one and your buddy too.
What do you mean by that first sentence? Your saying you don't have to go by the manual for your service intervales? Yes you do. Its made by the manufacturer. It says point blank there if you dont follow these recomendations it will void the warrinty. A kia worker like yourself can get by without following it cause you work there. Easy isnt it. But for the rest of the people here, I suggest you do change it every 3K. Unless this Icellkias guy is your service guy of course.

My oil changes cost me my time and like 10-11cks. Not to bad to feel like my motor is nice and lubricated with a new filter to boot... Its not premature to change at 3K. Id rather spend that 10 bucks, then spend hundreds in repair costs down the road...




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post #29 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 09:11 AM
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The service manual for MOST kias says 7,500 miles between changes for normal service and 3,000 for severe service.
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post #30 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 12:34 PM
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Like I said with the dealer here they only go by severe intervales. Driving in vt is severe so I do say its the way it is for a reson. Where else can it be -25 below, then with wind chill it feels like its -45. one day then 45 out the next. With 3 feet of snow then its 60 out. Dusty dirt roads everywhere, weird climate, summer time itll be 95 with 100% humidity. Feels like 105 outYes severe is what should be done...
Besides where can you drive where severe driving conditions are not? Not too many.




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