Can I Trust Synthetic Oil? - Page 2 - Kia Forum

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post #11 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1fastkia View Post
Ok what? How will using a syn oil help the enviroment? It doesn't create less pollution, thats your catalyst system.
The others issues I'll not respond to since I've seen those results first hand many times.

You'll use less oil and filters. It's simple math. If one uses less oil and other materials, that lowers the impact on the environment & lowers our dependency on foreign oil.

If everyone did this think where we might be.


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post #12 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Had a break this afternoon so here comes another batch for you to gnaw on.

Everyone is an expert on oil. I’ve read it and heard it a million times. My dad did this, I’m doing it so it must be right. I’ve done this for 30 years and never had a problem. Synthetic oil will blow up your engine. My buddy has a corner shop and does this. If your buddy jumped off a bridge would you follow?

I’ll really get them on the ropes when we get into a discussion about gear oils because very few change gear oils much less understand what they do. Gear oils next to brake & transmission fluids are the most neglected area I’ve seen when it comes to maintenance.

The first thing I’ll admit is until I started doing some serious field testing in the late 70s I too was one of them know it alls. Now with 35 years of data in hand the story is much different.

Again, mis-information is easier to sell then the truth. Look at the politicians.

Here are some notes for anyone making the switch from conventional to synthetic.

Your first oil change should not be extended very far unless the vehicle is rather new, like under 10-15,000 miles. Even here the first cycle should be shortened just a tad, maybe 20% under what is expected.

Remember earlier where I said to avoid blended oils?

We usually shorten the expected range on the first synthetic fill due to the residue left behind from the conventional oil plus odds are there might be a fair amount of gunk & varnish that’ll get cleaned up with the higher detergent in synthetics. Ya ya ya I can hear it already but overall mileage and the type of maintenance previously done will play into the benefit of this.

Many times I’ll suggest the second oil change cycle be slightly shortened depending on the miles and overall condition of the engine. Oh ya’ I can hear the bean counters working here too. You have to look at the big picture, which few can or want to do.

Many times you’ll see talk about running oil checks or analysis to see if extending oil changes is working towards your benefit. After all one of the benefits we’re looking for is lower engine wear or at least to not go backwards.

Running used oil samples is another area I’ve done countless times. From my practical experience I can usually come up with an “out of picture” if you will point of view and make a suggestion without your having to go thru the testing procedure.

I’ll add however, if you’re one to really push things, then doing at least 1 used oil analysis midway thru or after your second synthetic fill is a good idea. Another reason to run an occasional oil sample is I’ve found leaky head gaskets and other issues that weren’t showing up in the way an engine was running.

It’s typical for me to run an oil sample on an engine that is getting close to going out of warranty if the plan is to keep the vehicle for at least 2 more years. This I do regardless of the oil being used and the service intervals seen. Oh yes, I’ve had several discussions with service managers but I usually win when I confront them with the evidence. After all I was a service manager for several years. I generally know what they want to see.

The above and what follows is where the debate with arm chair & shade tree mechanics gets interesting & one I just watch with humor.

“Normally” I’ll suggest to not extending your first oil change more than 50% over what’s suggested by your owner’s manual as long as this is within the confines of the oil manufacturer. If you have an OLM you should be able to run it to zero. This is something I suggest on a case-by-case basis. Again, what I’m mentioning here is just a rule of thumb and other considerations are given for newer vehicles.

Also, it’s not uncommon to hear sounds you never heard before. Synthetics will sometimes allow the transference of engine noises better than conventional. The tighter molecular structure will allow sound to pass even though it’s still giving you the film strength you need. I’ll also add in many cases synthetics will quiet things down.

The sound transference issue varies from oil to oil, even from group to group & it will vary from engine to engine and the application of that engine.

In some cases your oil color will become very dark. This is because the various detergents are doing their job so don’t panic. Color has little to do with the health of oil structure itself. A darker color in what might seem a very short time usually means gunk & varnish is being pulled.

I’ve done several filter experiments while in the middle of an oil change cycle that gets people when I pull it on them. Let’s say a guy is 2,000 miles into a cycle. The oil is getting dark. I’ve taken his filter off and spun on a synthetic based filter. Usually within a couple hundred miles the color will turn clearer or back towards the original color.

Now, I’m sure the armchair and shade tree mechanics will say something like, that’s because the old filter was plugged. That’s proof you can’t run a filter more than 3-4K miles. You added fresh oil making the color clearer.

I can take the same vehicle and spin on your favorite filter under the same circumstances with no add oil & usually not see any change. In fact oil and air filter’s efficiency will go up with usage but there is also that fine line when getting way out there.

The reason a high quality synthetic medium filter can lighten the oil color is due to its higher efficiency. Here again I’ve seen it several times without using add oil but I made sure the oil level was well within safety margins before sending him out for those couple hundred miles.

Before someone chimes in and suggests high efficiency filtration can strip out viscosity improvers I’ll say it isn’t possible with a conventional filtration system. Bypass systems can get into such an issue but again we’re talking about the average motorist.

Not only will efficiency improve flow will too in many applications. This phase of the discussion can get very long winded and not one to be of big concern to the average motorist when it comes to flow so I’ll leave for now.

Finally, whenever I’ve done a service, I’m a firm believer in pre-filling an oil filter as much as possible & when possible rather than screwing it on empty. This comment I’m sure will bring the critics out.

Give me a few days maybe even mid next week to get some business issues tied up and I’ll be back with the most important aspect if I don’t get run over by a reindeer.
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post #13 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-26-2007, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
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I also suggest to those with a fair amount of miles to do one internal clean with our engine flush. It only takes 15-20 minutes and is simple to do.
I should expand on this a touch.

While it's not always necessary, this is something I'll do on a case-by-case basis.

Some engines with mega miles or those that had lousy maintenance, this would be a good idea when making a switch.

Later gators.
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post #14 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cmhj2000 View Post
The others issues I'll not respond to since I've seen those results first hand many times.

You'll use less oil and filters. It's simple math. If one uses less oil and other materials, that lowers the impact on the environment & lowers our dependency on foreign oil.

If everyone did this think where we might be.

How, you stilll need to change the oil every 3K miles. Thats the same usage. Also a good running car will be full from oil change to oil change without using any. Unless you car is burning oil.

Theres only 1 oil that can be used past 3K. Its the mobil stuff that is for 5, 7.5, 12 change intervals... EVERY other oil including royal purple (the absolute best) needs to be changed at 3K. Its actually not the oil per say that has to be changed its the filter... But if you have to remove the filter you gotta replace that oil....
No one will sell me including mobil oils, that you can safely go past 3K miles without the oil breaking down and being less useful that it should be...




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post #15 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 10:58 AM
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We have 60 years in advancements in Petroleum Engineering, cleaner gasoline, higher levels of air filtration due to superior filter media for both the intake and oil, and cleaner combustion. Yet somehow you are still sticking to 3,000 mile oil changes. It's your money.

Seriously, even Ford is recommending 5,000 - 10,000 mile intervals on oil changes. The filters can handle it just fine. Kia and Hyundai recommend 7,500 mile intervals on most of their vehicles and somehow offer a 100,000 mile warranty if you follow those guidelines.

Do a little reading online. The old 3,000 mile intervals are bogus unless you are classified as severe sevice. People who listen to this garbage are victims of corporate propaganda. If nothing can sell you on going longer than 3,000 miles, so be it. It's your money.
Pretender and longpatience like this.
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post #16 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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We have 60 years in advancements in Petroleum Engineering, cleaner gasoline, higher levels of air filtration due to superior filter media for both the intake and oil, and cleaner combustion. Yet somehow you are still sticking to 3,000 mile oil changes. It's your money.

Seriously, even Ford is recommending 5,000 - 10,000 mile intervals on oil changes. The filters can handle it just fine. Kia and Hyundai recommend 7,500 mile intervals on most of their vehicles and somehow offer a 100,000 mile warranty if you follow those guidelines.

Do a little reading online. The old 3,000 mile intervals are bogus unless you are classified as severe sevice. People who listen to this garbage are victims of corporate propaganda. If nothing can sell you on going longer than 3,000 miles, so be it. It's your money.
Exactly,

Here's the oil I'm running in my Sonata,

AMSOIL - Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil

It's rated for 35,000 miles for the type of driving I do and Amsoil will warranty it if I change the Amsoil filter every 25,000 miles. Odds are I'll hit 22-25,000 and change the oil too.

Ran a UOA at about 15,000 and it shows little wear and still has plenty of detergent and the carrier looks fine.

But as you said, to each their own.

The myth about having to change an oil filter every 3,000 miles is another line of garbage.

Those in the know continue to save and help the enviroment.
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post #17 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Reposted on page 4.

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post #18 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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A poster had mentioned Ford & Hyundai are both suggesting oil changes out from the old world thinking of 3K miles. Yes, my Sonata fits right in, as did my old junker 06.5 Optima. Both suggest 7,500 mile oil changes with normal use on conventional.

I’m not 100% secure in the Hyundai 7.5K service mostly due to issues I know of in the Mitsubishi block but 5K should be cool for "NORMAL" service on a good conventional.

Toyota should be added to this, as they are heavy into the 5K mile oil change cycle. In fact, you’ll find this in many automobiles now partially because of public pressure to get with current oil technology and a way to show lower projected maintenance costs. There are even some that go much further than 5-10K miles but they all use synthetic.

Some of the European suggestions go past 10K miles.

Look at some of the recent Honda suggestions when it comes to changing oil filters.

Any of the above recommendations blows the 3,000-mile filter rotation out of the water by a mile!!!

I'll share some personal service methods when I get some time.
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post #19 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICellKiaz View Post
We have 60 years in advancements in Petroleum Engineering, cleaner gasoline, higher levels of air filtration due to superior filter media for both the intake and oil, and cleaner combustion. Yet somehow you are still sticking to 3,000 mile oil changes. It's your money.

Seriously, even Ford is recommending 5,000 - 10,000 mile intervals on oil changes. The filters can handle it just fine. Kia and Hyundai recommend 7,500 mile intervals on most of their vehicles and somehow offer a 100,000 mile warranty if you follow those guidelines.

Do a little reading online. The old 3,000 mile intervals are bogus unless you are classified as severe sevice. People who listen to this garbage are victims of corporate propaganda. If nothing can sell you on going longer than 3,000 miles, so be it. It's your money.

Ill be the first to point this out about the kia oil changes. Yes the manual states that you change every 7500. When I bought my 05 spectra I brought this up. For warrinty purposes I was advised by the service manager) if you did cahnge it every 7500, your warrinty is voided. Call kia and confirm this.
Thats what Ill say about that.




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post #20 of 81 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 10:07 AM
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Also if you use a oil grade that is not in the manual, (a different grade other than 5w30 or 10w30) your also not going by the recommended oil by the manufacturer and are risking a voided warrinty. If they find out, and if you do oil changes yourself or by another shop, they ask for your maintenece records and it shows your not using the specified grade, your crap outta luck on your nice warrinty!!!




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