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KSDS Notification - Knock Sensor update

125K views 438 replies 77 participants last post by  jes1888 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Any one else get a letter from Kia to schedule an appointment to have new software loaded into ECU? It is suppose to detect excessive vibration. Apparently, there is a problem with 2.L GDI and 2.0L Turbo GDI engines 2016-2018 with the connecting rods. The software is to alert you that there is a problem and then you must get service asap. Lifetime warranty provided assuming you get the car service quickly.
 
#7 ·
Just scheduled my 15k mile service and three service items were included:

SA189AM : PI1802C: PI1802 ECU UPGRADE (KSDS) 17MY
SA305: SA305 E-CVVT COVER AND MOTOR PLUG
SA309A: SA309A ECV/EVAPORATOR TEMP SENSOR REPLAC

Didn't get the letter, but given above, I expect to get it soon....

FYI, everything else is going well with the car except that vibrations are developing in the driver's door and under the dash on non-smooth pavement. Build quality? I hope this doesn't portend more issues....
 
#11 ·
Yep, same thing that Kia/Hyundai previously did for 2011-15 Theta engines, and this confirms that Kia/Hyundai believe even their most recent Thetas also have the same issues as the earlier ones.

For anyone considering this 'upgrade', here is a thread from a Hyundai forum, with a number of reports of issues stemming from the same program. Personally, if I had one of these engines, I'd never allow this to be done to my vehicle, but everyone will need make their own decision about that, particularly if your powertrain warranty will expire in the near future.

The problem reports start in this thread with post #28 .
https://www.hyundai-forums.com/lf-2...software-update-service-campaign-953-a-3.html
 
#393 ·
Yes they are as I received mine about 3 months ago. I actually took my Sportage in for service and they informed me there was an update to the ECU for the connecting rod issue. About a week later I received a letter in the mail telling me I've got a lifetime warranty on the long block and also if I sell the vehicle that I should give the new owner the ladder so the warranty transfers to the new owner of the vehicle.
 
#10 ·
This appears to be the latest chapter in the Hyundai/Kia Theta II engine recall saga. There are currently at least three class action lawsuits pending against Hyundai and Kia for engine failures and engine fires related to oil starvation in cars not covered by the current recalls. Hyundai and Kia may be trying to show the courts and the NHTSA that they are being proactive in trying to solve these issues, although its seems to me to be too little too late.
 
#23 ·
I've attached calibration seals to the obd ports on my car. I've also asked the dealer to put a note on the file that they are not to upgrade/reflash any ECUs.

I don't want this upgrade if there is any chance it degrades output power or torque. I have a 10 year 200k km warranty on the car already. I run the car on 91-94 octane top tier fuel all the time and haven't had any plug or driveability problems since starting to use it, over 40k km now.

I wonder what the legal position is? Can they deny me warranty if the engine pukes and after I didn't let them upgrade it?.....hmmm.
 
#15 ·
No question about it - you have to get the update to maintain the regular warranty. My only concern is reduced performance/throttle response but then there really is no choice, so I'll get it done soon. I just got my letter today, so yes, OP, now I've heard of it!

In considering what could happen if the knock sensor detects a problem and the car goes to the dealer, I am thinking they would replace the engine rather than putting in a new crankshaft, connecting rods and pistons. I'm not happy about this turn of events and my opinion of KIA is being affected. I'm crazy about my SX and don't believe it has any bottom end problems but I have to admit I'm starting to lose confidence in the vehicle. I mean who wants to take off on a trip in it with the specter of dropping some rods hanging over it? The hell with it - I'm not going to change how I drive - if it fails, it fails. I will tell you this - this is the end for KIA. What a shame - they gambled on this engine and lost - they had success in the palm of their hand and decided to cheap-out.
I guess you all know that the connecting rods are 'powdered metal' (MIM). This problem could be caused by the MIM rods being softer than expected, allowing the bearing to open up a little, causing a rod knock. Once this starts, the crankshaft begins to be damaged and the engine does not have long to go.
So, the purpose of the new detection software is simply to help the owner get to the dealer while the car is still running. There's nothing that can be done for the engine to help it last longer at that point except take it easy, which is accomplished by the 'limp mode'.
The bottom line on all this is how this campaign affects the value of the affected vehicles - I think we are basically going to lose our esses on this deal. Who is going to buy one of these grenades used, no matter how nice it is?
 
#14 · (Edited)
Not a happy camper, this is the second major problem after an air conditioner replacement at the dealership (now out of business). These problems caused me several weeks without my 2017 EX Sportage and "NO" supplied loaner car like other dealerships. :-(

Btw, my case manager was terrible too but the female tech (a first for me) was great and very knowledgeable.
 
#17 ·
I got my KSDS notice today & may call for appointment to get the software update soon.
I have 35,000 on my SX with no problems and we also drove it across the country to AZ & back at 80 mph + or - in very high temps out west in AZ, NM, TX.
I have been using synthetic oil since new, Pennzoil Platinum, that may be helping mine.

What are some of the highest miles on the 2016-18 SX's you all have ?
 
#19 ·
That's an interesting take on the meaning of the letter. I'll look at it again in the morning and see if I think it can be construed to mean the only warranty affected by not installing the knock detector would be the special warranty associated with this problem. It is true that once the detector trips the alarm, the engine is already unusable, so after more consideration it became evident that the purpose of the whole exercise is to try to prevent engine seizing on the highway which has started a couple of fires. I agree that there's no way KIA could possibly not repair the vehicle that suffers engine failure as long as maintenance has been performed as required.
As for the cars going into 'limp mode' right after the update, have you considered that some of them may have been having the problem and the new software picked it up?
I think I would be able to detect changes in my engine related to clearanced rod bearings and respond accordingly. I also would recommend having the oil tested at every oil change to possibly detect unusual bearing material in it, which would be a clue that things are going south.
 
#20 ·
I got the letter today as well. My interpretation is that this new limited lifetime warranty on the engine long block will be affected if you don't get the upgrade, not the warranty that was given when new. What's funny is that 3 days ago my vehicle was showing this PI1801 recall on the myuvo web site and I started looking into it and found nothing, then a day or so later the site said no recalls and then now this.
 
#21 ·
The sole purpose of this letter is covering the behind of Kia. They try to paint a happy face on it, but think about their current situation. They are the recipient of several class action lawsuits, the NHTSA and congress are on their tails with subpoenas and failed to show up for their session.

Clearly whatever steps they have taken since the original Theta II debacle are not enough to stop what is happening to SOME owners of these vehicles. The biggest damage they can receive from all this is entirely cultural with their company. Their refusal to ever admit when something goes horribly wrong, is doing them far more harm in the long run. The proper response back at the beginning of all this would have been to perform failure analysis on the original 2011 engines, and make proper design changes that would overshoot the problems by a significant margin to ensure they don't ever happen again, even if that meant switching to significantly more expensive parts in the engine.

The most likely real issue here is bearing material that is not consistently of a high enough quality. Instead of switching to a more durable metal in the bearings, they reportedly tweaked the oil journal depth and some very minor dimensional changes. Too little, too late.
 
#28 ·
I certainly didn't see anything as a pointless argument with this.
If you think about what's going on with them in regards to federal scrutiny, and private class action lawsuits, they are showing some action which could be construed as taking steps to prevent people from having their engine grenade while going down the interstate and causing a wreck or serious injury.

We can rest assured at some point down the line, they will end up paying the piper for whatever this all turns out to be caused by. They are not the first car company to play this game ,and won't be the last.
 
#26 ·
I asked my dealership if they have done any of these ECU software mods yet. She said they have done over a 100 "Upgrades" (yes, they called it an upgrade) to date. They actually, didn't start with the Sportage but with other models first. They have seen no cars returned for going into "limp" mode yet.
I want the lifetime coverage. Yes, I agree the manufacturers warranty would cover you for a period but not lifetime. I just don't know if you sell this car, if the lifetime warranty transfers to the new owner. The letter states "new and used vehicle owners" but it doesn't actually mention transfer of ownership. This would be important for resale value.
 
#27 ·
although i have not had any issues with my 2017 . this does leave a sour taste in my mouth and i've begun looking for a new vehicle. not to say i am definitely selling but want to see what my options are. so far nothing jumps out at me:

honda cr-v
honda hr-v
ford escape
mazda cx-5

nothing hits the mark
 
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#30 ·
I shopped these when I bought my '18 EX.

The CRV costs quite a bit more here in Phoenix... because it can. Used was even the same price as a new one.

The HRV is significantly smaller. Almost more a hatchback than SUV/crossover to me.

The Escape may suffer the same fate as my former 2014 Focus SE Hatchback, which was a class action suit over the Powershift dual clutch transmission. Ford has settled suits in the US and Australia over defects in the design.

The CX5 will drive sportier, but is a smaller vehicle.
 
#29 ·
My Wife's 2014 Sportage SX influenced me into buying a 2017 for myself. We haven't had any major problems with our cars & hope it stays that way.
We previous owned General motors & Jeep products & were very dissatisfied with both after the 1st 2 years of ownership nothing but problems, never again!
The warranty Kia offered was the main selling point for both our purchases.

I have to say that I'm a little nervous & concerned over the problems people are having with Kia.
I don't know if I would buy another. I 'll probably go for Toyota 4-runner if the SX gives me problems.
 
#31 ·
I guess I freaked out a little after getting the letter yesterday and getting into the discussion here. We had a little shopping trip planned today at the outlet mall about 50 miles away. Normally we would take her Odyssey but my car was all cleaned up from the recent snow so I drove it instead. Perfect and smooth as usual and I had to blast it one time to get around a car on the two-lane road - my wife grinned and said 'Turbo!'. All in all I'm glad I drove it today because I am quite sure there is nothing wrong with it.
At the risk of belaboring the point, the 'fix' only has one purpose, and that is to help you avoid an engine fire from throwing a rod. This is done to help KIA reduce litigation. It has nothing to do with 'fixing' the engine because once the sensor detects vibrations from the lower end going bad, the only 'fix' is to replace the engine, so in that sense there is nothing gained by KIA or the car owner by the warning other than possibly not having to put out an oil fire under the hood and/or being able to get the car home under its own power which could be quite a convenience.
I was attentive when I started it this morning in freezing temps. In the past on older cars I have heard rods/crankshaft mains knocking a few times and its a very distinctive sound. I've never heard any such thing with the '17 SX or the '11 EX before it, not even a slight pinging. I know that a rod bearing or several things in the top end (valve train) will knock/tick on a cold, dry start when there is a clearance/oil pressure problem, so I was all ears this morning. I actually always pay attention to things like this which is why I said earlier that I thought I could tell if the bottom end in this engine was going bad. Nothing was heard or felt on the startup today or at any other time since I've had it. I would have to say this 2.0L is in fact the mechanically quietest engine I've had in any vehicle, which was one of the things about it that gave a feeling of quality on the test drive. The great thing about my SX is how in the 30 months I've had it, that great feeling of quality and quiet power has lasted and I have no indication it will be fading anytime soon.

So the bottom line for me is I feel much better tonight about the prospects of keeping this great vehicle for several years after its paid-for in 2021, and in that light it would be somewhat counter-intuitive to not go ahead with the 'campaign' since its a guarantee of a new engine if the bottom end comes out of it even after 10/100 - and they also could not use failure to get the update against me should something else happen to the engine before 10/100.
 
#34 ·
Hi All. New here with the reason being we just got The Letter as well. This will be the third Hyundai or Kia currently or previously owned with a similar engine issue. 2014 Santa Fe (son totaled it after short block was replaced). 2013 Sonata......still runs but enough said. 2014 Elantra GT still OK. 2018 Kia Stinger still OK. I have concluded that once these issues start costing me money or when the extended warranties expire, the vehicle goes bye bye. 2017 Sportage appt for Dec 26. Merry Christmas!!
 
#35 ·
I too have an oil change coming on a 2017 Sportage and will now have that done in addition to this ECU update and something to do with the transmission inhibition switch. Didn’t know that one was live until I called about this engine letter. This will be the third Hyundai or Kia vehicle in several years to have experienced, or potentially have, engine issues. The Stinger I just leased will be my last H/K vehicle.
 
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