Replacing Front Bearings & Hubs: Remove Knuckle? - Kia Forum

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-18-2018, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 57
Drives: 2010 Kia Rio LX
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Replacing Front Bearings & Hubs: Remove Knuckle?

I'm replacing both sets of original front bearings & hubs on a 2010 Rio LX Auto with over 150k miles on it. I bought a bearing removal & press kit by Astro Pneumatic so I don't need to take it to a shop that has a hydraulic press and can remove the old and press in the new bearings myself.

The question is whether I should remove the knuckle and use it away from the car, or keep the knuckle on the car and use the tool there. It can be done either way with this tool. In fact one of its selling points is being able to use it with the knuckle still on the car, to avoid the need for a front end alignment after you're done.

Either way, I have to use some other means of removing the hub from the knuckle, as this is the one thing this tool can't do. If I keep the knuckle on the car I'd have to use a slide hammer, which I can rent for free locally. If I take the knuckle off the car I can just hammer out the hub using a properly-sized impact socket (which I have).

I'm leaning towards keeping the knuckle on and using a slide hammer, especially given that an initial attempt to remove one of the lower control arm bolts was unsuccessful, as it's probably been in place since the car was built and has basically seized. I'm sure that I can get it off, but it's going to be a pain. Plus, it'll need that alignment, which will add $80 to an already higher than anticipated cost of all the repairs and upgrades I'm doing on the car.

However, I've heard that a slide hammer can cause damage to where the knuckle connects to the suspension, e.g. lower control arm, strut assembly, sway bar, etc. Is that true, or can I safely use one to get the hub off with lots of lower-impact strikes as opposed to a few really hard whacks? Or am I better off playing it safe and taking the knuckle off, and paying for the alignment?

Btw, is there any way to get the hub off while it's still on the car using the socket and (non-slide) hammer technique, by turning the wheel so you can get to the inside (after removing the driveshaft from the hub of course)? Or is a slide hammer the only safe way to go?

Habanero64 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-18-2018, 09:03 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA,WESTERN NY
Posts: 1,746
Drives: 09 kia spectra ex,04 Neon,04 Chry. T&C, 98 Avenger
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)

The method you describe of your plan for replacing the front axle bearings is very similar to the way I do all front bearings on my 4 cars. The only concern I have for you is if the front bearing is a SINGLE bearing or if there is TWO(an inner and outer with a "spacer" between for proper inner races "preload"). IF 2 bearings per side, it is better to remove the knuckle for dis assembly as there are steps needed to make sure of proper spacer thickness so the bearing load is correct.
Otherwise I use a solid rod just slightly smaller in diameter of the inner race diameter and hammer the drive flange out.
Depending on tooling you have, the outer bearing race that will stay on the drive flange can be heated with a torch to expand it for removal. or I mostly use an air chisel CAREFULLY to "chatter" that race off the flang. NOTE any nicks MUST be polished out for reuse of the drive flange. I just did the front axles bearings(single bearing) on our 09 Spectra about a month ago.
Either way this is not a "newbie" to auto repair type job to "tackle". Good luck, and hope this helps you out.

Last edited by MIA KIA 09; 09-18-2018 at 09:15 AM.
MIA KIA 09 is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-18-2018, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 57
Drives: 2010 Kia Rio LX
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIA KIA 09 View Post
The method you describe of your plan for replacing the front axle bearings is very similar to the way I do all front bearings on my 4 cars. The only concern I have for you is if the front bearing is a SINGLE bearing or if there is TWO(an inner and outer with a "spacer" between for proper inner races "preload"). IF 2 bearings per side, it is better to remove the knuckle for dis assembly as there are steps needed to make sure of proper spacer thickness so the bearing load is correct.
Otherwise I use a solid rod just slightly smaller in diameter of the inner race diameter and hammer the drive flange out.
Depending on tooling you have, the outer bearing race that will stay on the drive flange can be heated with a torch to expand it for removal. or I mostly use an air chisel CAREFULLY to "chatter" that race off the flang. NOTE any nicks MUST be polished out for reuse of the drive flange. I just did the front axles bearings(single bearing) on our 09 Spectra about a month ago.
Either way this is not a "newbie" to auto repair type job to "tackle". Good luck, and hope this helps you out.
The 2010 Rio uses sealed front wheel bearings that while obviously made of several parts can be treated as a "single" piece, if that's what you mean. I.e. it's not the old-style kind of bearing you can take apart, clean, repack and reuse. Once it's done, it's done.

It does come apart when you remove it, though. The outer half of the inside race stays on the hub flange when you remove the hub, with the rest still in the knuckle. But at that point it's of no use.

Anyway, if this is what you mean by a "single" bearing, then I guess I can keep the knuckle on the suspension while I remove the old bearing and press in the new one and not have to worry about needing an alignment.

However, looking through the service manual, it appears that the 2G Rio doesn't really need a conventional alignment. The caster and camber are pre-set in the factory and the only way they get out of alignment is if a part gets bent or broken, and replacing them fixes that.

Only toe-in might need to be adjusted, and then generally only after replacing or adjusting the outer tie rod. So I'm wondering if it really matters if I take the knuckle off, in terms of needing an alignment. Is it possible for a car to not need front-end alignment?
Habanero64 is offline  
 
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 07:23 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA,WESTERN NY
Posts: 1,746
Drives: 09 kia spectra ex,04 Neon,04 Chry. T&C, 98 Avenger
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)

As to your concern about alignment, if you leave the knuckle on or take it off the car, it should NOT affects alignment settings.
As to type of bearing, the reason for my main point about bearing type in my reply are as follows.
The earlier year Rio uses 2 complete bearings that must be replaced on each knuckle, and later years use a single type bearing (with the outer race containing the actual ball bearings and inner races). As I stated, I was not sure of which type yours was equipped with.
From the sounds of your question and info you relay from service manuals, you should be able to "handle" the task, Good Luck and let us know how things go when you get done!
MIA KIA 09 is offline  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 57
Drives: 2010 Kia Rio LX
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIA KIA 09 View Post
As to your concern about alignment, if you leave the knuckle on or take it off the car, it should NOT affects alignment settings.
As to type of bearing, the reason for my main point about bearing type in my reply are as follows.
The earlier year Rio uses 2 complete bearings that must be replaced on each knuckle, and later years use a single type bearing (with the outer race containing the actual ball bearings and inner races). As I stated, I was not sure of which type yours was equipped with.
From the sounds of your question and info you relay from service manuals, you should be able to "handle" the task, Good Luck and let us know how things go when you get done!
While my auto maintenance experience is still fairly limited, I have done pretty much all the maintenance work on my several road bikes for as long as I can remember (going back to when 10-speeds actually had only 10 speeds--my current "10 speed" has 30 speeds!). That might sound like a silly thing to say as cars are obviously vastly more complex and difficult to maintain than human-powered bicycles, but there are various components, techniques and approaches that the two have in common that translate well from one to the other.

In this instance I'm referring to bearings, of which I've installed and maintained on all my bikes, both the sealed and serviceable kind. I used to have an old Trek that had only the older, serviceable kind of bearing, on the wheel hubs, bottom bracket (where the cranks go) and headset (where the handlebars/stem connect to the fork and frame). Every year or two I took them apart, cleaned them thoroughly, replaced the ball bearings if worn, repacked them with grease, and installed them back on the bike. This also involved properly pre-loading them so they wouldn't be too loose or tight under use.

I assume that by "2 piece", you're referring to this type of bearing, not the sealed "1 piece" kind that is usually not serviceable and you basically keep on until it's worn or breaks, and then you just replace it with a new one. Internally there are still inner and outer races, ball, pin or roller bearings, and grease, of course, but they generally can't be serviced. If so, then my 2nd Gen 2010 Rio has the "1 piece" type of bearing. My current bike has these types of bearings, and they've done well by me over 12,000 miles of riding and still run smooth.

Anyway, thanks for the help, and I'm glad to hear that the 2nd Gen Rio's front wheels don't need an alignment even if the knuckles are taken off and put back on. That'll save me $70 plus tax, or just a bit more than the cost of one of the new hub/bearing/clip/nut sets I bought (I figured that with over 150k on the car and the bearings having needed replacement for at least a few thousand miles now, it was best to play it safe and replace the hub as well). I assume that that's one of the features that makes the Rio so inexpensive to buy and maintain, relatively speaking (even if there's probably a tradeoff in performance or ride quality).
Habanero64 is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 10:08 PM
Full Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Somewhere in Seattle
Posts: 130
Drives: 2004 Kia spectra 1.8 L Base model 125xxx miles
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)

Hey bud a bit of advice? before you destroy every tool you throw at it?

Soak everything, penetrating oil everywhere, Don't be afraid to use heat! the amount of salt used in NY locks bearings in place, and use a slidehammer, only resort to taking that hub off completely unless you have to take it to the shop, because nothing will budge cause its seized in place.

Scarring, Or marking / scratching / scraping the sleeve where the sealed bearing sits, will not be the end of the world , sad / file it down, then soak it in some Fluid-film. all is good.

Don't guess , Diagnose!
Parts cannon's are expensive
Drogers is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 57
Drives: 2010 Kia Rio LX
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogers View Post
Hey bud a bit of advice? before you destroy every tool you throw at it?

Soak everything, penetrating oil everywhere, Don't be afraid to use heat! the amount of salt used in NY locks bearings in place, and use a slidehammer, only resort to taking that hub off completely unless you have to take it to the shop, because nothing will budge cause its seized in place.

Scarring, Or marking / scratching / scraping the sleeve where the sealed bearing sits, will not be the end of the world , sad / file it down, then soak it in some Fluid-film. all is good.
I've got 3 kinds of penetrating oil, including Liquid Wrench, so I'm good there. The tool I bought is pretty heavy duty, and with my cordless impact wrench should be enough to remove the bearing from the knuckle. Pressing the new bearing should be fine too with this tool, just need to be patient and apply lots of elbow grease.

The only part I'm still not sure about it whether to take the knuckle off. Now that I know that it won't need alignment if I do take it off, it's more a matter of the difficulty of removing it given that the control arm and strut bolts are likely seized, vs. the difficulty of pressing out the old and pressing in the new bearings with the knuckle still on the car.

I'm leaning towards the latter. If I do that, everyone says use a slide hammer to remove the hub, but I'm wondering if I can't just punch it out from the inner side of the knuckle with a socket and hammer (although access angles might limit the amount of force I can apply)? I'll probably just rent a slide hammer.

Been putting this off for several months while researching how this works and getting the right parts and tools, plus this summer's been terrible in terms of working on the car outside, what with the heat, humidity and incessant rain. But, I've got the know-how, parts and tools and the weather's better, so time to get at it.
Habanero64 is offline  
Reply

  Kia Forum > KIA Models > Kia Rio Forum > 2G (2006 - 2011) Rio & Rio5



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



  Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Front wheel bearings mgk222 2003-2010 Sorento Forum 3 08-11-2017 05:53 PM
How to remove front spoiler ground effect 2005 Spec 5 mheade Cerato (2003 - 2008) & Spectra5 (2004) 25 04-22-2015 12:37 AM
97 - 4wd Front Wheel bearings Gottadiesel Kia Sportage Forum 3 09-04-2008 09:25 AM
Repair Manual mackedisto 1G (1993 - 2002) Sportage 5 03-07-2007 09:53 PM
Guide: How to remove the front door panels in 4 easy steps. killerspd 1G (2001-2005) Rio 0 02-05-2007 04:23 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On