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Clean fuel injectors for $200?

24K views 36 replies 17 participants last post by  GeezerFella 
#1 ·
When reviewing the vehicle checklist after my oil change a few days ago the Kia service advisor recommended a fuel injector cleaning service for $199.99. He said injectors can get dirty and/or clogged up and suggested it should be done given my current mileage (44K). He didn't explain what that service entails. He also said check the maintenance schedule in your owner's manual. I do check that every once in a while and didn't recall seeing anything about fuel injector service so I checked again and I still don't find it.

I checked into fuel injector / engine cleaner additives that you put in the gas tank every six months to a year and they apparently help keep things clean. Don't know much about them yet.

Any comments or suggestions on this subject would be welcome.
 
#2 ·
I personally use seafoam in the gas tank every year. I also do the spray seafoam into the throttle body once a year to help clean the top of the valves.

I keep seafoam around as a cleaner and stabiliser also for my lawn mower, trimmer and snow blower.
 
#7 ·
Yeah, that was sort of my first impression when he mentioned it. I can't recall ever being offered anything like it from a new car dealer. So I guess he doesn't think I'm going to check the manual. I don't like the dealership but it's the only one around (still an hour away for me) and I like getting oil changes there to maintain an irrefutable service record along with receiving warranty and TSB updates.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I think some tank additive cleaner will take care of your actual injector cleaning - if you've been running cheaper less-additive types of gas.

The key thing - IMHO - is getting the intake-induced Seafoam (or other similar product) treatment performed to help remove any potential carbon build-up on the BACKS of the valves. Since the advent of direct-injection engines, where the fuel is spayed directly into the cylinder and doesn't wash down from the intake above, DI-style engines have been know to accumulate carbon from oil vapors introduced by the PVC system. Since no gas/fuel is washing past the actual valves from above, thick carbon residues can develop and bake on to the backs of your intake valves. Sending the cleaner foam down through the intake and running the engine hard is about the only thing that can be done to emulate the old intake-located fuel injector design.

The carbon build-up situation with direct injection is serious enough, that some manufacturers (Ford and Toyota for example) are putting secondary injectors BACK UP in the intake to provide a small amount of fuel to help keep the valvetrain clean, and enhance performance.

Good article here on direct injection: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/whats-so-great-about-direct-injection-abcs-of-car-tech/

Article on DI and carbon: https://www.underhoodservice.com/carbon-deposits-direct-injection-engines/

-SM2016
 
#10 ·
I think some tank additive cleaner will take care of your actual injector cleaning - if you've been running cheaper less-additive types of gas.

The key thing - IMHO - is getting the intake-induced Seafoam (or other similar product) treatment performed to help remove any potential carbon build-up on the BACKS of the valves. Since the advent of direct-injection engines, where the fuel is spayed directly into the cylinder and doesn't wash down from the intake above, DI-style engines have been know to accumulate carbon from oil vapors introduced by the PVC system. Since no gas/fuel is washing past the actual valves from above, thick carbon residues can develop and bake on to the backs of your intake valves. Sending the cleaner foam down through the intake and running the engine hard is about the only thing that can be done to emulate the old intake-located fuel injector design.

The carbon build-up situation with direct injection is serious enough, that some manufacturers (Ford and Toyota for example) are putting secondary injectors BACK UP in the intake to provide a small amount of fuel to help keep the valvetrain clean, and enhance performance.

Good article here on direct injection: (Link)

Article on DI and carbon: (Link)

-SM2016
Thanks for the info. I'm clueless on engines, etc. but I read both DI articles and found them quite interesting. The articles give some insight into the never-ending quest for improved fuel mileage without negatively impacting performance.

I live in NW Florida which was heavily impacted by Hurricane Michael. We lost one gas station (Chevron) but the Exxon station has reopened. Other than that there are a few stations pumping unknown gas off in various directions. I've never put additives in my cars and have no issues but I'm open to improving their longevity, especially with the Theta II engine problems.
 
#6 ·
Seafoam is chemically similar to kerosene and does just about as much good. The only two additives tested by SAE that worked (and this was many years ago) were Techron CONCENTRATE (not the diluted fuel system treatment) and BG 44K (expensive and hard to find over the counter). If you use a top tier gasoline (which all the majors are, Costco is, Sam's club is) then you will never need to clean your injectors because it has Techron in the blend. If using a lesser grade of gas, throw a bottle of Techron Concentrate in every 6 months and you'll be fine.

As to cleaning the back of the intake valves - Seafoam will do absolutely nothing, the CRC product specifically for this purpose may work, not sure the jury is totally in yet. I've borescoped many an engine cylinder before and after a Seafoam treatment - water, creating steam, does a better job but is tricky to use due to the possibility of hydrolock. Even Techron, applied directly (which is NOT recommended), does not make much of a difference in carbon buildup on the pistons. Top tier gasoline, used exclusively, makes a huge difference on the piston face and used to make a difference on all valve surfaces in the days of MPI, not so much in GDI. GDI is going to require some type of separate treatment (like the CRC product) on a regular basis, just not sure that product or process is out there just yet although I did buy several cans of the CRC product.

Whenever the service writer says something is in the recommended maintenance procedure, pull out your maintenance handbook and politely ask them to point it out in the scheduled maintenance section. When they can't find it, politely ask them to stop misleading customers about what is and what is not required. If you have a particular complaint that is related to a non-maintenance item (like fuel injectors) then they may recommend a service to cure that problem, not because it's a required maintenance item.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Seafoam is chemically similar to kerosene and does just about as much good. The only two additives tested by SAE that worked (and this was many years ago) were Techron CONCENTRATE (not the diluted fuel system treatment) and BG 44K (expensive and hard to find over the counter). If you use a top tier gasoline (which all the majors are, Costco is, Sam's club is) then you will never need to clean your injectors because it has Techron in the blend. If using a lesser grade of gas, throw a bottle of Techron Concentrate in every 6 months and you'll be fine.

As to cleaning the back of the intake valves - Seafoam will do absolutely nothing, the CRC product specifically for this purpose may work, not sure the jury is totally in yet. I've borescoped many an engine cylinder before and after a Seafoam treatment - water, creating steam, does a better job but is tricky to use due to the possibility of hydrolock. Even Techron, applied directly (which is NOT recommended), does not make much of a difference in carbon buildup on the pistons. Top tier gasoline, used exclusively, makes a huge difference on the piston face and used to make a difference on all valve surfaces in the days of MPI, not so much in GDI. GDI is going to require some type of separate treatment (like the CRC product) on a regular basis, just not sure that product or process is out there just yet although I did buy several cans of the CRC product.
My dealer used the GDI Fuel/Air Induction service from an outfit called 'BG Products'. See: https://www.bgprod.com/blog/avoid-gdi-performance-loss-with-new-bg-gdi-fuelair-induction-service/

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-fuel-injection-system-cleaner/


Have you heard of this company/brand? I wonder if it's similar to the CRC product you describe?

For what it's worth, here's a video about the specific product my dealer used -

Finally - an interesting back-and-forth on the topic here: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1058697

-SM2016
 
#14 ·
Lou O.: If your not having any drivability issues, and you've been using good quality fuel with a high rating, and you've been adding the Techron fuel additive every 6K, I believe your not in need of this service, which makes a lot of extra money for the dealership.

I agree.

Lou O.: For the most part they will hang a can of pressurized cleaner from your hood latch (with the hood open of course) and hook it into the fuel rail for the injection system. While the vehicle runs (idles mostly)the can is sucked M/T, and wa-laa, your injectors are cleansed. The can of cleaner costs the dealership 5 bucks tops. Not much else for the Tech to do.......

I was afraid of that.

Lou O.: But, on the other hand, have you had your spark plugs changed recently???
Check your manual. The DI Turbo motors need plugs ever 40K or so........


Engine is 2.4L non-turbo. Manual says plugs at 97.5K.
 
#17 ·
Manual says plugs at 97.5K.
And with today's iridium plugs, you may well feel like an idiot when you take the first one out at 100K. I remember the 'old days' where 15K on a set of plugs was pushing it. Now, at 100K, you take out the easiest one to access, and more likely than not, you'll ask yourself if you really need to tackle the job of pulling the intake apart because the plug looks so good. Things sure have taken HUGE steps over the years in this part of the game!
 
#16 ·
Insertion of the BG 44K product under pressure directly into the fuel rail is, when needed, the best stuff out there for the purpose of cleaning up injectors. Adding it to the tank is OK, but doesn't provide the more intense cleaning of the direct method where the concentration at the injectors, for however long the can lasts during the service (15 minutes or so), is a heck of a lot higher.

On some vehicles, it's a very easy job because some manufacturers leave a Schrader valve in the fuel rail to make the connection quick and easy. Not so Kia, so that means adding a "T" to get the stuff in there, but that's not that hard, either. The stuff goes for a little over $20 a can retail,
 
#18 ·
Use top tier gas, use Techron concentrated in gas once per oil change and that should be enough unless there are issues with gas delivery or ignition.
Change PCV every 2 years.
 
#19 ·
First off, THANKS TO ALL who have responded to this thread. I appreciate your input. Hopefully the information provided here will prevent readers from being ripped off by their dealer. Also thanks for the tips on keeping one's engine/fuel injectors clean. There may not be complete consensus but we've learned there are several options to consider.

I stopped for gas this afternoon at a new station which I've visited several times before. The gas priced very competitively and is supplied by VP Racing Fuels. Although on their website (vpracingfuels.com) they claim "At each VP station, you’ll find conventional pump gas that ranks with the best fuel on the market", I don't find their name on the list at the TOP TIER web page. I therefore intend to gas up at the Exxon station whenever possible and am considering a dose of Techron to get the cleaning started.
 
#20 ·
Their name won't necessarily be on the "Top Tier" list. That doesn't mean they aren't pumping top tier gas. It's who their distributor is that counts.

The local Bradley's stations (now brilliantly renamed to "Stinker"?) all pump good Sinclair gas.
 
#26 ·
In my mind a distributor's role is fairly simple: deliver the manufacturer's product unaltered to various locations. In this case the manufacturer is VP Racing Fuels. So the fact that the distributor may deliver various brands or variations of a particular brand isn't what I would expect. So I assume that thinking is generally flawed or perhaps gasoline distribution is done differently.

The TOP TIER website has suggestions for how to determine if a station is selling TT gas. I didn't see the logo on the pump or in signage in the pump area. I'll check that station again as it's new, clean and the pricing, at least for now, is quite good.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Just use GasBuddy to identify a couple of gas stations close to you that are both - top tier and consistently competitive in pricing, sometimes stations offer a discount to loyal customers too so take that into consideration.

I usually gas up at Shell in Blaine USA (having bought gas in Canada a handful of times only in past 15 years thou living here) due to their 5c / gal discount that beats most/all local to them and closest to me gas stations in out the door price.
I also buy gas at Safeway station in Lynden that is way cheaper and is also top tier and collect their points too.
There is a big difference in Can/USA prices just withing 5 miles radius from home and including USA - US$4.10/gal in Canada and US$3.20/gal in Blaine while US$2.84 in Lynden at the moment...
US Amazon currently sells 12oz concentrated Techron at $5 and thou it adds to each oil change, it helps with keeping fuel pump, fuel lines and filter and injectors cleaner. It wouldn't help much or at all with GDI engine intake valves cleaning thou.
As far as spark plugs go, even thou iridium ones are rated up to 100K miles I'd suggest changing them every 50K miles or so. Exposed portion of electrodes may look unworn but internally conductor degrades and causes increase in resistance that in turn causes coils work harder and they may fail. Plugs are cheaper to replace than coils.
 
#37 ·
Yes, let us know whether there's any indication on the pumps.
Can't find any indication at VP Racing station, Top Tier or anything else that would lead one to believe it has beneficial additives. It's not terribly clear at the Exxon station either. Their signage leads you to believe you must get higher octane to receive the benefits. But from their website:

"When you fill up at an Exxon™ or Mobil™ station, you can be confident you’re getting TOP TIER® gasoline every time. Available in three octane levels, our Synergy gasoline has been engineered to help clean up intake valves and improve gas mileage and performance."
 
#29 ·
Looked at the process. See they are using a vacuum to try to get most of the walnut shell out. Wonder if they get all of the dust as well? It's soft stuff (it's about the softest stuff you can buy for blasting) but wonder how much gets left behind to mix with the oil in the areas around the compression rings. Beats pulling heads, but still a heck of a process.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Yeah, I wish they would just install another set of injectors that are not DI.... I would pay an extra $400 on the price of the car do not have to deal with that BS! Audi is almost as bad with the carbon buildup issues as BMW, though with 94,000 on my 2011 A4 2.0T it still seems fine and I am not having walnut blasting done unless that car as drivability issues. $400 is $400! An I think the norm is closer to $600.

In the Audi forums (and it is the same in the BMW forums), I am astonished by how much they let slide and say, this is the price you pay when having an Audi/BMW. No, it is BS! I shouldn't have to replace pistons, rings, timing chain, timing chain tensioner and a turbo at 65,000 miles in any car.... especially an "expensive one". Lucky for me it was under warranty.
 
#31 ·
High Octane Gas?

Does high octane premium gas really prevent carbon build-up in GDI engines? For example:

"Shell V-Power NiTRO+ Premium Gasoline has 7x the cleaning agents required to meet federal standards and remove an average of 70% of gunk left behind by other premium fuels."

..and that's just one of the benefits listed here --- https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/motorists/my-fuels/shell-v-power-nitro-plus-premium-gasoline.html

So would a tank of this every once in a while help with the problem, and is there any limit to how high an octane can be used in the V6?
The manual says "87 or higher."
 
#33 ·
None of the aforementioned additives will ever see the back of the intake valves unless directly injected into the intake manifold via the throttle body. Not sure why Kia feels using top tier gas will limit the intake valve buildup from GDI. Other manufacturers are coming up with other solutions like an auxillary multi-port injector specifically to allow fuel to reach the back of the valve. Not sure how long direct injection will be the darling of the industry as yes, it increases MPG and performance but at what cost when these cars start having driveability issues while still within the warranty periods.
 
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