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Another one (engine) bites the dust - 2012 Sorento

5K views 25 replies 4 participants last post by  octavian_kia 
#1 · (Edited)
Well, it happened. Traveling on the highway and all of a sudden I heard clacking, lost power and a sort of roaring or grinding sound. Pulled over and had to have it towed.

My question to you guys is, how do I find out exactly which engine I have? I of course have the VIN if that helps.

I know about the extended warranty on engines, but I fear that it was my timing belt that went, in which case I would assume that it's not covered. I'm only guessing. I will have it towed to the dealership tomorrow. I just thought I'd check with you guys for any head-up and would see if I could identify the engine.

2012 Sorento, FWD, basic package. 102,000 miles

Thanks for any help.

steambc
 
#3 ·
Well, it happened. Traveling on the highway and all of a sudden I heard clacking, lost power and a sort of roaring or grinding sound. Pulled over and had to have it towed.....
Before getting into a discussion about your engine, I'll ask if you're certain that's where the problem is? Did it shut down, and wasn't able to restart? If it didn't shut down, did you try idling in neutral to find out how it was running with no load? As always, just trying to confirm what the problem is before getting to the solution.
 
#4 ·
It did not shut down. It lost significant power and was making a combination of loud clacking inside the engine and sort of a groaning noise which increased in intensity when I stepped on the gas.

After I pulled over I shut it off (while in park) and then waited about 3 minutes and started it up again. It did restart but required me to lightly gun the engine in order for it to not stall out. I ran it for only about 15 or 20 seconds this way. At that point I didn't want to keep it running.

I did not notice any blue or black smoke coming out the exhaust, but it was hard to tell for sure with the windows being tinted and not super-clean. I looked carefully for that though. I did not notice any kind of burning smell once I stopped, and although the tow truck driver said he smelled a little something, it wasn't very strong. I had popped the hood to see if there was any smoke or smell, and thought there was none.

Thanks for asking and for offering any insight.
 
#6 ·
It did not shut down. It lost significant power and was making a combination of loud clacking inside the engine and sort of a groaning noise which increased in intensity when I stepped on the gas. After I pulled over I shut it off (while in park) and then waited about 3 minutes and started it up again. It did restart but required me to lightly gun the engine in order for it to not stall out. ...
That's a curious set of symptoms, which doesn't match what happens with most of these engine failures. The seized engines typically make no noise at all, quit completely, and will of course not restart. A timing chain loop part might make noise, but any chain issue with that much noise should certainly cause the timing to jump, valves to bend, and the engine to quit with no restart. But I guess it can't be ruled out either, until the actual cause is determined. Were any codes set as a result of this problem? A single cylinder misfire code would likely be helpful in diagnosing the issue.

I don't know for certain if the engine in your vehicle is a GDI or an MPI. According to the specs I have, only the 2012 EX model came with a GDI, while the other 2012 models were MPI. But I'm also not sure that what I'm reading is correct either. Your best bet would be to call Kia, and ask them if. your VIN is included in any of the Theta recalls.

If it's an MPI and not covered by a recall, then they're going to give you a quote for a replacement engine for around 7K. In that case, I recommend trying to diagnose what the actual issue is. For instance, something wrong in the valve train would cost much less than 7K to repair. And there's also still the possibility of something other than the engine being the actual cause - unlikely yes, but possible. One thing that comes to mind in that category would be if the cat had a sudden major failure, and broke apart internally. I'm certainly not saying that's what the problem is, but it would actually be a fit with just about everything that you mentioned.
 
#7 ·
More info: It starts right up, and idles. There is a VERY loud tapping seemingly from within the engine, but that's just my best guess. It is very loud, about 4 taps per second. When I say "taps" it's not like those quiet valve taps you can sometimes hear, but rather it's a very loud tapping that you can hear from the driver's seat.

I hooked up my scanner and no codes have been thrown.

Any and all ideas are welcome.
 
#8 ·
More info: It starts right up, and idles.....
Does this mean you no longer need to give it throttle in order to keep it running? If so, how does the engine seem to run (aside from the tapping) when you rev it up? It might help if you can locate the source of the tapping - a long stick used as a stethoscope can often pinpoint a noise source fairly well.
 
#13 ·
@kiaguy002

I greatly appreciate all your advice. I know it takes up your valuable time to answer and I don't take that for granted.

Well, I called Kia and as expected, my engine isn't covered. The guy I spoke to told me to talk to the local dealership service to see if there's "something they can do", which probably means nothing.

I'm on the fence about taking it to the dealership, or trying to take it to a local shop. I'm wondering if the dealership can make a deal with me since the car is leased. The lease is up in December of this year.

As it stands now, I'll be paying another $2500 till then for a piece of scrap metal, and then the buyout of about $3,000.

Or, as you suggest, I could take it to a local shop to at least have them diagnose it. It's hard to know what to do. I don't want to get reamed by the dealership and I don't want to rack up fees for diagnosis only for it to end up at the dealership anyway.

I would guess that the difference between the day I got stuck and today is temperature. It was very hot that day and I was highway driving, but I am always looking at the temp gauge and I am absolutely certain it did not overheat. In fact as soon as I felt the hesitation I looked at the gauge and it was fine.

I'm afraid to keep running it and incur more damage, and also it's in my condo unit parking space now and I'm concerned about it giving up the ghost completely which will necessitate another tow. I will try to start it again in a minute and perhaps move it around in such a way that I can push it into a visitor spot if it dies.

Again, your help and guidance is very greatly appreciated.
 
#14 ·
[MENTION=307353]...I'm wondering if the dealership can make a deal with me since the car is leased. ....
I can't give you any advice on a leased vehicle, because I've never had any experience with leasing, and know virtually nothing about them. I'd like to believe the lease offers some protection against engine failure, but that's just a feeling and not based on any facts I'm aware of. And I also can't speculate on the 'deal' you mentioned. It might very well become your best option, but that's something I can't give you any advice about.

I will tell you that a dealership service dept will hear that knocking and tell you 'new engine' - no further diagnosis needed. They have done this same thing with many Theta engines over the past few years, so this will be their automatic response to your situation. And, based on the knocking you described, rod knock due to a spun bearing is quite likely to be the case. But again, you can confirm that by simply draining the oil. If there are metal shavings in it and/or the oil filter, you would know that a replacement engine or a rebuild of yours would be required to keep it on the road. But in the unlikely event that no metal shows up, then perhaps a good indy shop can find out what's actually going on.
 
#15 ·
It starts right up and idles fine. I hear that extremely loud "rapping" sound, about 4 taps per second at idle.

I reversed it out of my spot and back in, it has at least that much power. Giving it gas in park yields the expected revving.

I hear a very faint squealing or squeaking sound, most people I'm sure would not even hear this. It's either related or possibly a peripheral device like an idler or alternator or such. It's too faint to tell.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the reply. Today I'm vacillating between doing the rebuild, or spending 3 grand on a used engine and swapping them out myself. I'm sure the best decision will come off the "back burner" of my brain as it cooks for a little while. I can live with having to spend 3 grand to make it run for short distances but 7 grand can't be justified. I do have lots more time than most because my business consists mostly of remote computer work so that extra time I have is a very valuable resource.

Yes, I'm definitely not going to run it anymore. I might tow it to my storage place, which I've recently emptied out, put it in there, drop the pan and take a look up there to see if I've got a spun bearing (which I'm almost positive I do). Of course I'll be checking for metal in the pan, but I'll also be able to eyeball the crankshaft. I've heard of a case where 1/2 of the bearing moved on top of the other one, thereby raising the cylinder too high and causing problems up top, and I'm hoping against hope that's not the case. It is certainly a loud noise it is making but it does sound exactly like a Hyundai I saw on YouTube with a spun bearing.

I've also seen temporary fixes where several guys have carefully and lightly honed the journals with 600 to 800 strips of wet (WD-40) sandpaper and replaced the bearings. It does seem to work in many instances. I'm sure its only a temporary solution, but it would be nice to be able to at least take it for local runs to the store and such.

Well, it all depends on what I see when I get my eyeballs on it. I'll let you know what I see when I do this.

Thanks again for your invaluable advice.
 
#21 ·
... Today I'm vacillating between doing the rebuild, or spending 3 grand on a used engine and swapping them out myself.....
A used engine is certainly another possibility, but as I mentioned previously, these MPIs are really scarce and hard to find, given that they were only used for the few years before Kia/Hyundai changed the Thetas to GDI. And I'll add one more thing, which you may already be aware of. Assuming that your vehicle was originally sold in CT, it's the California emissions level, which is called SULEV by Kia/Hyundai. You will need to confirm that any engine you're considering has that emissions level, and not Federal/ULEV instead, because they are not interchangeable. And although it MIGHT be possible to swap in a SULEV MPI engine from another model (such as a Forte), I've never read an account of anyone actually doing it. So I'd recommend that you search for 2011-12 Sorento SULEV MPI engines only. Not many to be found, so good luck with that.
 
#22 ·
Good points. Thank you. I know that this Sorento was originally sold in Florida. I'll look into this. I actually see that if I did a search for used engines, several show up on eBay, not private sellers but a few companies who picture racks full of engines. My engine is VIN eighth digit "1" and there are some available. But who knows the history of these engines and the reputations of these companies?

I've seen a bunch of videos where guys have gone the new bearing route, with good success for 50,000 miles and more, plus many people comment below the vids that they followed and did it successfully. It's all going to depend on the condition of the journals I think.

I think the first thing I should do is a compression test, to verify there's no valve or other damage. If that's good I'll drop the pan and see what is to be seen.

I'm still scratching my head about the cause, because I've been impeccable with oil changes. I'm wondering if it was a weak oil pump, although I never saw the light flicker. I'm someone who is always monitoring gauges and lights. She never burned or leaked oil. Maybe it's just the luck of the draw with the apparent poor QC of Kia in their engine manufacturing processes.

I'll update this thread as I find out more. As always, your help is much appreciated.
 
#23 ·
... I know that this Sorento was originally sold in Florida. ...
I know that Florida changed to no emissions testing, so a Florida vehicle could be either emissions level. However, you can easily find which it is from the sticker located on the hood. Federal level will say 'ULEV', while California will be 'SULEV'. You're hoping it's SULEV, because that's what's sold in most of the states in the Northeast region.



... I think the first thing I should do is a compression test, to verify there's no valve or other damage. If that's good I'll drop the pan and see what is to be seen. ...
Good plan.


.... I'm still scratching my head about the cause, because I've been impeccable with oil changes. ....
It sounds like you were not the original owner, which means you didn't do maintenance for the life of the vehicle. And since there are far too many people who don't do diddly, you unfortunately can't know that it's always been well maintained.


.... I'm wondering if it was a weak oil pump, although I never saw the light flicker. I'm someone who is. She never burned or leaked oil. Maybe it's just the luck of the draw with the apparent poor QC of Kia in their engine manufacturing processes. .... .
The automakers original 'manufacturing debris' story has been shown to be bogus, based on many additional engine failures which took place on vehicles built AFTER they supposedly corrected the faulty process. No one outside of the Kia/Hyundai inner circle knows the true reason(s) for the Theta engine failures. With a dog of my own still in the race, I watch this whole Theta thing very closely, and I've never seen credible information from any reliable source (and what the automakers say outside of the courthouse is not in any way reliable).

Some people post stuff based on one or two failures or what someone else said, but they're just blowing smoke, because no one has ever (so far) produced solid evidence in support of a systemic failure. Poor maintenance certainly accounts for some of them, but definitely not even close to the majority. Unless the automakers are forced to spill their guts in court, it's likely that the actual cause(s) of these engine failures will never become known to the public.
 
#24 ·
A fairy-tale ending to my story of woe:

I heard about the new recall that Kia announced on possible engine issues resulting in fire, with a little side note about bearings/rod issues. Several days after the 27th I found a recall for my VIN on their website.
Long story short, the dealership told me to bring it in, they did their tests, and I’m getting a free new engine with a 15 year, 150,000 mile warranty.
The car is otherwise in excellent condition, so this is as close a free new ride as one can get.
I had a feeling I should hold on to this vehicle, what with rumors of a class action, and I sure am glad I didn’t dump it for the $1200 I was offered for it!
 
#25 ·
A fairy-tale ending to my story of woe: ....
Definitely one of those lived-happily-after stories!

Frankly I never expected Kia to do anything about the MPIs after so many years, and I was amazed to see them cave in on that. The pressure on Kia/Hyundai about their various engine issues has been enormous over the past few years, and at this point it appears they're running up the white flag and covering just about everything they've built over the past 10 years, just to get the regulators off their back.

Great strategy to just sit on it and patiently wait it out, and thanks for reporting back with your happy outcome 👍👍👍
 
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