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Yes, in Oz too, the ratio is about 3 beemers to 1 Sorento and they are for different driver markets - but despite the price diffrence I'm sure the BMW has some issues which rankle their owners.
I'm sure they do. But not in the service department. They really try there. If on the eval they get B instead of an A the dealership owner calls you and apologizes, and promises to do better and all the good stuff. KIA doesn't call, and the dealership returns only half of your calls. Is that so hard - to pick-up the phone? Or does KIA not train their falks on the phone courtesey. For you ratio-lovers: My X5 was $42K my Sorrento is $27, which is either 50% more or 30% less depending on how you look at it.
You will never keep everyone happy all the time.
I have not had any dramas with my 2004 model.
Read your hand book about changing from celsius. Those things are only a gimmic anyway.I think you got spoilt driving the BMW.
I did get spoiled. That's the point. And I do not want them to have everyone happy all the time - I want the to keep me happy 99% of the time. Is that so much to ask?
I'm sure they do. But not in the service department. They really try there. If on the eval they get B instead of an A the dealership owner calls you and apologizes, and promises to do better and all the good stuff. KIA doesn't call, and the dealership returns only half of your calls. Is that so hard - to pick-up the phone? Or does KIA not train their falks on the phone courtesey. For you ratio-lovers: My X5 was $42K my Sorrento is $27, which is either 50% more or 30% less depending on how you look at it.
If it's one thing I've learned on these forums is that car dealerships vary like, pardon the pun, wild rabbits. My dealer is fantastic. Always returns my phone calls, always replies to my Emails, always tells me everything that they're doing with my car, warranty work or not, and even spots little things and GIVES ME THE OPTION to fix or leave it alone if I can. They also don't mind if I take the car somewhere else for my regular oil changes, and they've given me no issues.
I also have to say if you're going to compare a Kia to a BMW, then you're obviously going to have problems. It's like a computer user comparing a Dell manager's special at Best Buy with a Voodoo or Falcon NW boutique PC. They're essentially the same parts, but how they're put together and marketed is what makes the difference. I've driven BMW, and I can't stand how they feel compared to Kia. This was before I ever bought my first Kia. I'm a repeat buyer, and probably will be because frankly... $30,000 for something I can get for $20,000 at better quality (for me) is worth it.
I never understood people who would prefer the BMW over the Kia based on my own experience, but at least you're not going off about an Escalade over the Sorento. I'd have to nuke you for that. (For the record, I can't stand Escalade owners)
It's always good to make friends quickly. Look I'm not retired and I'm not an exec, and worst of all - I'm not reach. I got married, so the beamer went, ok? I'm very glad that your friend "couldn't justify", I could, I couldn't afford... Anyhow I did my research, and I did my test drives, and I did my budgeting on both, and buying a car should not be more difficult than buying a house, and yet somehow it is. Because of me eternall bliss of marriage I was stuck to the low family budget and in this particular category KIA came on top with the flying colors. FYI the free oil changes was the HQ or the regional which is what I clearly indicated in my post, and the small print was there too. I specifically enjoyed the price differential. of $1.50 or something like that. Like I said the car is bearable, the company is annoying, and I can't even say that will never buy KIA again, I'm just saying that you will have to hold a pretty big gun to my head to make me do it.
Hi Wild Rabbit. First off, I appreciate what you had to say about your experience with the Sorento thus far and specifically the Kia dealer after having owned a BMW. Although Kia HQ denies having a free oil change promotion directly, I believe you are dealing with a dealer and regional thing as you say. They have done things like this before on a more localized basis which is cool if it were without strings. I have only driven the Sorento casually but enjoyed it but can't compare it to your old BMW which no doubt handled well.
I guess my point in replying to you earlier had to do with my concerns that customers aren't buying vehicles within their class of expectations and then bad mouthing a brand because of a bad purchase. If you are a BMW type of guy I would suspect the Sorento to be a let down in comparsion to some things. Same would hold with me comparing my beloved Optima with certain other brands. It meets my expectations and I enjoy owning it for overall quality is high and didn't cost me a lot of cash. I also have a very good dealer and had a chance to really drive one that a friend owned at work.
You sound like a smarter shopper Wild Rabbit. Many dealers don't like people like us. Isn't that just tough luck! On the other hand we can be their best friend with referrals.
I hope your Sorento will do well by you even though there are annoying issues to deal with right now.
If it's one thing I've learned on these forums is that car dealerships vary like, pardon the pun, wild rabbits. My dealer is fantastic. Always returns my phone calls, always replies to my Emails, always tells me everything that they're doing with my car, warranty work or not, and even spots little things and GIVES ME THE OPTION to fix or leave it alone if I can. They also don't mind if I take the car somewhere else for my regular oil changes, and they've given me no issues.
I also have to say if you're going to compare a Kia to a BMW, then you're obviously going to have problems. It's like a computer user comparing a Dell manager's special at Best Buy with a Voodoo or Falcon NW boutique PC. They're essentially the same parts, but how they're put together and marketed is what makes the difference. I've driven BMW, and I can't stand how they feel compared to Kia. This was before I ever bought my first Kia. I'm a repeat buyer, and probably will be because frankly... $30,000 for something I can get for $20,000 at better quality (for me) is worth it.
I never understood people who would prefer the BMW over the Kia based on my own experience, but at least you're not going off about an Escalade over the Sorento. I'd have to nuke you for that. (For the record, I can't stand Escalade owners)
And how do you feel about Expedition owners? Because before the beamer that's what I had. As far as KIA Sorrento goes - I expected it to be somewhat less than the BMW I had, until the time I read that they in the direct competition with X5.
I also do not expect to have a problem with a brand new vehicle right out of the lot. Especially after all their hype about quality. I also expect the gizmos in the car to be configured for the market they are going to. I don't exactly live in Canada, you know. Not even on the border.
I also expect (and maybe I got spoiled by BMW) that it is the KIA HQ that pays attention to how their dealers keep their customers happy. I understand that dealers are different, same with any brand including my beloved BMW, but because of the HQ policies they all were a cut above average, and very pleasant to deal with.
As far as other dealers are concerned - it's a 60 to 90 minute drive one way, and if with BMW that had maintenance once a year it would've been (and was) acceptable, with KIA that managed to visit the shop 5 times in 7 months, it is a lot more of a drag. So looks like I'm stuck with the one I have, but that's OK, I'll have them trained in no time.
Hi Wild Rabbit. First off, I appreciate what you had to say about your experience with the Sorento thus far and specifically the Kia dealer after having owned a BMW. Although Kia HQ denies having a free oil change promotion directly, I believe you are dealing with a dealer and regional thing as you say. They have done things like this before on a more localized basis which is cool if it were without strings. I have only driven the Sorento casually but enjoyed it but can't compare it to your old BMW which no doubt handled well.
I guess my point in replying to you earlier had to do with my concerns that customers aren't buying vehicles within their class of expectations and then bad mouthing a brand because of a bad purchase. If you are a BMW type of guy I would suspect the Sorento to be a let down in comparsion to some things. Same would hold with me comparing my beloved Optima with certain other brands. It meets my expectations and I enjoy owning it for overall quality is high and didn't cost me a lot of cash. I also have a very good dealer and had a chance to really drive one that a friend owned at work.
You sound like a smarter shopper Wild Rabbit. Many dealers don't like people like us. Isn't that just tough luck! On the other hand we can be their best friend with referrals.
I hope your Sorento will do well by you even though there are annoying issues to deal with right now.
You're right in many ways. And again I would not have said anything if they compared themselves to other similar vehicles on the market - like Hundai, Daewoo, Ford, GM - anything, my attitude would've been different, but it was them who chose their competition. It is one thing when you buying what you can afford, i.e. best of the worst, it is different when you're buying an allegedly comparable replacement for what you have and love - you judge a little differently. As they say in "Crossing the chasm": you have to be careful choosing your competition.
Funny thing Wild Rabbit, there are plenty of complaints about BMW by BMW owners out on the net including this one:
2003 BMW 325i
My car sucks because I bought it on October 2002. It is a brand new 2003 BMW 325i with everything on it. It's been one year since I bought this car and it's been at the shop for at least 5 times. That's not all. The problem is not something like the AC not working or the windows not rolling down... NO NO NO... the problem is that this brand new car stalls on the freeway while I am driving fast at any time. It can be tomorrow or next month or in two months... but no matter how many times I take it to the dealer they don't find anything wrong with it. BMW has done NOTHING to solve this. Their service sucks... I met other people with brand new BMWs with the same problem. They just don't do anything because they know that BMW won't do anything. BMW SUCKS...............Susie Kent
I found many complaints about BMW quality as well as dealer quality. Soooooooooo, vehicles of any brand have issues and owners blame everyone. Many times the fault is with the owner who doesn't read the manual.
BMW has lousy dealers? I think so in some cases just like any brand. Open your eyes. BMW is not a perfect company and their products are far from being reported as such on various surveys of owners. Tell me that ain't so! Well, do a Google search and you will find plenty of BMW dealer complaints. The dealer is just one of many quality links for the manufacturer and I believe Kia as a discount brand is improving their dealer network. This year the company has spent millions to update computers, train more customer service people and supervisors world wide, improve HQ and dealer communications, and service tech training.
I have never had to take my Optima in for problems. The dealer did an excellent pre-delivery and any known issues were handled before I took possession. This dealer is outstanding in every way. They are a part of a larger Cadillac dealership but in separate locations. The techs share duties between the shops.
Anyways, I'm bored with the BMW argument. I like you to enjoy your Sorento and hope you will stay on top of the dealer(s) so that you get better treatment. Not all dealers are like yours.
Wild Rabbit -- what did Kia say about the fuel tank? I have complained about that for the two years that I have owned mine. The fuel pump always cuts off when there is at least 3 more gallons to put in. I have to manually nurse the pump for 10 seconds at a time until I get the tank filled.
I also agree with a lot of other comments regarding dealerships. When I owned my Optima I dealt with two really great dealers, one in Ft. Lauderdale and the other in Phoenix. Here in Las Vegas I will NEVER go back to the dealer that I bought the Sorento from. Their name is "Courtesy" which they had none of.
-M-
Wild Rabbit -- what did Kia say about the fuel tank? I have complained about that for the two years that I have owned mine. The fuel pump always cuts off when there is at least 3 more gallons to put in. I have to manually nurse the pump for 10 seconds at a time until I get the tank filled.
I also agree with a lot of other comments regarding dealerships. When I owned my Optima I dealt with two really great dealers, one in Ft. Lauderdale and the other in Phoenix. Here in Las Vegas I will NEVER go back to the dealer that I bought the Sorento from. Their name is "Courtesy" which they had none of.
-M-
Well in my case it did it at all time starting with an empty tank and all the way to the top, or to be precise, all the way until I got tired of it. Luckily for me the problem was easy to reproduce, and unlucky for them the dealer's shop manager had the audacity to suggest that I do not know how to fill a tank. As I said before - I'll have them trained in now time . After that he set-up a next day appointment, because I told him - either he looks at it first, or I will be in returning the lemon, and he chose the lesser of two evils - i.e. he decided to cooperate. KIA said it was a defective shut-off valve, that's supposed to prevent the overflow, and they replaced the fuel tank.
Your problem is - you already waited for two years, and they know they cat put you off. Mu suggestion is tell them you're fed up with them and start raising hell seven ways from sunday. Call the dealer and yell at them, call the regional and yell at them, call HQ and yell at them, and threaten them all with a lawer, and whatever else you can. Do call the local BBB first, that usually gets them moving, because they want you to withdraw the complaint. It is a lot more serious and specific than a threat. Call your local chamber of commerce, call your local autodealers association. Most importantly - figure out the time you are going to do this, and do it as a focused concentrated effort. And do not hesitate to scream, yell, and insult, but do not swear. Morons are legal MFCKs are not. You want your car fixed, not get yourself arrested. Do it while it is on the warranty. Drop it off and tell them you're not picking it up until they PROVE to you it is fixed. And then call them every 3 hours to see if it is fixed.
That's what I would do, unfortunately there is nothing nice or easy left to do, I'm sure you already tried everything else, like begging, pleading, and asking sternly but politely. Time to explode.
Anyways, I'm bored with the BMW argument. I like you to enjoy your Sorento and hope you will stay on top of the dealer(s) so that you get better treatment. Not all dealers are like yours.
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I clearly seem to remember that I agreed with you that
a) there sure to be people out there who not happy with their BMWs
b) that my Leesburg, VA KIA dealer probably is not the best in the States.
So what it is we are arguing about? That will not concede that KIA is wonderful company? Well in my own personal expirience it is not - it is a cheap wannabe. Are you happier now?
Dealer-shmealer, I think you miss the point, which is they named a very specific maker and model to compete against, and successfully failed in every aspect of that competition except price.
I do not know how things are down under, and I do not know how things work in former autoexetuve land, what I know is that I bought a big disappointment, and will have to drive it for the next 7-10 years. And if it is such a problematic vehicle sold to me by a bad delaership, please let me know what exactly should I get excited about looking forward? Driving a mediocre product, with a bad service?
No BMW dealer, or no dealer at all will fix the fact that they supply meters and degrees celcius to the US Market. This is simple laziness and disrepect of the consumer - namely me. No dealer service can fix the fact that the transmission on Sorrento sucks, and when it switches gears it almost snaps your head off. No dealer or research in the world will change the fact that in this vehicle I have to be careful at 25 mph, when in X5 I could do 45 mph without a worry on the same exact curve.
Because before the beamer that's what I had. As far as KIA Sorrento goes - I expected it to be somewhat less than the BMW I had, until the time I read that they in the direct competition with X5. 
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