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looking for help to solve code P0139

58K views 108 replies 5 participants last post by  MIA KIA 09 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello again folks. Background on this 09 spectra, 2.0L automatic,now has 97,500 miles.been chasing this code for a while now. had bad flex pipe,and had replaced. Replaced downstream O2 sensor. Installed new spark plugs as they were close to recommended 100,000 mile(160,000Km) interval. New air filter and Seafoam brand fuel treatment.
Car operates perfectly but daughter is annoyed by the CEL turning on(about every 100 miles) for this code. I have in the yard monitored engine readings and found 2 things that seem odd to me. The EVAP system does not seem to be going thru complete self testing, as its monitor says,yet NOT throwing a code. And from stone cold, ambient air temp reading is correct to a thermometer, but the coolant temp reads on average 35 to 40 degrees warmer(FROM COLD).The last bit of info I can offer is when up to temp the upstream and downstream O2 sensor temps are reading the same temp within a second of each other.
I am contemplating replacing the upstream sensor and replacing the coolant temp sensor, but would love to hear some feedback on this code problem first. Any super sleuths out there that want to take a curious case? LOL
I also have a "hard time" in thinking this could be a catalytic converter problem,as I have never had to replace one other than for massive fuel/oil problem from an engine problem, this runs TOO good !
 
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#2 ·
I'm certainly not a 'super sleuth', but will nevertheless offer up a couple of things from under the shade tree. First off, I wouldn't replace those other sensors if it were mine, given that the vehicle running fine and neither of them should be contributing to setting a P0139. Next I'll ask if you did any electrical testing of the downstream O2 sensor circuit when the CEL is on? That would have been my first step in trying to diagnose this issue, before replacing any parts. JMO, and not trying to be critical of what you've done so far.
 
#3 ·
Well I certainly welcome the comments! while checking many different online help sites, all suggested to replace the downstream sensor and from my past experiences with my other vehicles that at the current mileage of the Spectra it certainly would not hurt it. And the shop that changed the bad front pipe/ flex pipe reused the downstream sensor. The Spectra started throwing this code shortly after finding that the flex coupler was opening up due to our wonderful rust belt area. Also the fact that it is reading,just slow to read, and is the only code and no rich running or misfires found in the computer. I honestly thought that at mileage the new plugs would definitely take car of it after the O2 sensor didn't. Other than posted info nothing else seemed "out of whack". Daughter has only had the car for 4 months and put 6500 miles on it, and the oil was new when purchased and changed again 2 months ago. And soon to get it again when I can do more checking for this posted inconvenience.We do maintain and not "beat" on our rides. Thanks again for your input would gladly accept any more thoughts.
 
#4 ·
Well I just got done doing more searching and from google found a thread from right here on the Rio section, Remember I posted of the EVAP system not fully going thru its self test monitor, but no code or pending code. seems this later Rio owner had a gas cap that was not fully sealing. When I can get my hands on the daughters Spectra, I will check out the gas cap. My 04 Chrysler T&C likes to pull a similar code problem(Po420 cat efficiency below specs...) a lot too and have tracked that to a gas cap sealing problem too.Especially in COLD weather! Still open to thoughts.
 
#5 ·
I to would be reluctant to change out the O2, given that the setting criteria for that code is, a reading of not less than .o2v on deceleration..

The ecu is looking for a cut in fuel on decel, fuel is detected during this event,
items to check,
  • Dirty throttle body, staying open.
  • leaking evap,
  • maladjusted TPS,
  • Leaking FI, lastly,
  • lazy O2

It would be advantageous for you to post the freeze frame data for this occurrence..

.. Philip
 
#6 ·
Thank you for the input! but the downstream sensor replacement is water over the dam now and plugs and air filter were due anyway. I will take a close look at the TB, but am strongly thinking in the direction of an EVAP leak as self monitor test has read incomplete the numerous times i have hooked up my scanner. Just where the leak may be is yet to be determined, If there is a leak.
The O2 sensor did not look healthy anyway on the portion that is inside the exhaust. Will not change the other sensors that I said to be considering.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Well this is interesting, My daughter got home from work at 8:00pm EST and said Dad the CEL turned off today! mind you that we saw a 20f rise in temps yesterday, but being late (and dark) out, I did not go out and investigate with my scanner. Will do that in a couple of hours before she heads back out for work. And I will then check the gas cap afterwards. I did question her about it(gas cap) and she said she NEVER lets it go to 1/2 tank, so with the distance she drives she is getting gas every 3 days or less depending on her schedule with also going to her Masters Degree classes! I am strongly thinking gas cap seal! Will keep you all informed ..... and thank you for your assistance!
 
#8 ·
OKAY here goes! started right up(as usual), and indeed NO CEL! Shut back down after 2 min. run and hooked up scanner,read for codes. P0139 and a second confirm P0139(as usual), EVAP test monitor still showing incomplete. Started back up and watched for TPS at idle,showing 0%, O2 sensor voltage showing average of 1 volt differential between the two O2 sensors. Shut down after another 5 min run time and checked the gas cap, It practically lifted off with no effort and "clicker" action felt rather sloppy. Put cap back on after a light coat of Vaseline applied to the O ring and made sure that I pushed down and cap clicked about 6 times. Went back and cleared the codes,then came in to make my report. I will see how this works out and get ready to buy a NEW gas cap for the car! As of right now I am almost certain that this is the problem(along with my daughters doing things (gas cap tightening) the way her former Escort worked (different tightening action)! Still open for comments/suggestions But thank's to all.
 
#9 ·
NOT sure, with roughly 70 mile round trip drive(shut down while at work), this am I checked for codes and found the P0139 PENDING and EVAP monitor test still incomplete. It is roughly 40f here this am and when I started the motor, the idle speed was 1550rpm, about 300rpm less than yesterdays reading of 1850rpm at 27f. Daughter will be putting on about 150 miles today as she works and has masters class tonight, with a probable 4 or 5 shut offs during that drive time. Should be a pretty good test to see what is going on,just won't be able to check things tonight as she won't get home until well after 10:00pm EST tonight.
For all you "super sleuths" out there, I will report again tomorrow.
 
#11 ·
At idling speed the upstream reads around .300v -.475v , while the downstream reads 1.300 to 1.450 after a couple minutes of run time from cold. I looked at readings from the purge while idling,and there was small voltage changes(just did not write them down or remember them). Also why would the purge solenoid not throw it's assigned code or pending code. Yes I am an OLD school tech and with all the computer check capabilities , I would expect a proper code for a system like that. NOT trying to argue but I have been wracking my brain on this one and incurring my daughters wrath, as I said that this car seemed to be pretty good and turns out there have been a number of small things to maint/repair that she did not expect to have to do.
 
#12 ·
Also I can download the info from the scanner to my PC, BUT am not confidant with trying to link from that file to the site. I am not that big into PC skills and take the old "type it out route". Hence no media and such. LOL
 
#13 ·
One issue at a time!
Will your Upstream O2 respond to rich/lean conditions? You can test with adding propane(rich) and vacuum leak(lean)??

Without the B1S1(presume you have a 4I, not a six) switching properly you are restricted on what the ECU can do..
Your reported readings indicate either a dead/lazy O2, or a lean condition.

Not sure why the B1S2, would be reading >1v.. excessively rich(counter intuitive), or shorted to a power source..

During scanning, does the B1S1 go fully lean (<.02v) when decelerating (foot off gas) from hiway speed?

Have you checked FT's?

.. Philip
 
#14 ·
I would love to get on the road readings, but alas my daughter takes a DIM view of anyone(family included) driving her car. I even said she drive I ride and monitor the scanner, she said no way as the cable bothers her(afraid it will get wrapped up in the steering wheel). I have about had it with her attitude to be honest and am ready to go buy a princess wand for HER to wave over HER car and magically fix itself.
Yes it is the 4 banger, and terms you are using do not match to terms on my scanner. O2S11 at idle reads roughly .5V, O2S12 reads 1.5V
(roughly) semi warmed up< 5 minutes run time at idle, PARKED. And values fall and rise as the motor runs. I am assuming O2S11 is upstream O2 and O2S12 is downstream. So which one would be dead or lazy, as the downstream sensor is now a month old and upstream is original. Either way tomorrow morning I will check things with scanner again and report. BTW.. what are FT's you are referring to?
 
#15 ·
what are FT's you are referring to?
FT= fuel trims, short term(STFT) and long term(LTFT)

B1S1=bank 1, sensor1(upstream) should switch between .05<>.9v, as ECU adjusts the FI trim to maintain stoic 14.7:1 fuel/air ratio.
B1S2=bank1, sensor 2(downstream) should be fairly stable ~.45v, conditioned by CAT..

... Philip

BTW: Tell your daughter if she wants you to fix her issues, she has to let you diagnose.. alternatively she has to pay the piper..
 
#17 ·
Well to the best of my ability,
First off I transposed B1S1 and B1S2 figures as posted from idle readings. and this am these reading on decel on the road B1S1 climbed to 4.5 -5.0 and B1S2 hit 2.0
LTFT was reading 3.9 and STFT was -1.7 during decel
EVAP purge was 0
EVAP monitor test was still incomplete and P0139 and P0139 pending was in computer memory with No CEL

So IF I may assume, the evap solenoid is either not working or I have a bad upstream O2 Sensor(B1S1)
If Evap, why would it not show an EVAP code?
It is raining like crazy here and I am working in the driveway(no garage). I have until 8:00 am EST to try other suggested readings or checks.

Thank you so much for your help!
 
#16 ·
Ha Ha, Like I said I have been wracking my brain(?) on this and must have come down with "burn out" Because as soon as I glanced at abreviation of the first one it all came back! Sorry about that. Like I said earlier, I don't get a lot of time to monitor things from daughters attitude. But will pay more attention and record these onto paper in the morning (I'll start at 7:00 EST), she leaves at 8:00. And I totally agree with you on your BTW statement!!!
BTW.. I can snapshot and put on my pc but have yet to have had the need to do it for any of our other 4 cars, so I may be a little delayed in reporting in tomorrow! LOL And Thank you!
 
#18 ·
I shortened the list of "PID" items to monitor (all requested items were not showing without scrolling the display), and found that I was getting EVAP readings and they seemed ok. but I really did not like seeing the B1S1 readings going up to 4.5-5.0 V on decel and B1S2 would hit 2.0V and then show 0 V and then quickly show around .700 to .850 v. I think(?) a wearing out/B1S1(upstream) O2 sensor may be the prime culprit? Yes I did a second run before daughter got around! She was more pleasant this am as the CEL did not come back on for her yesterday as it would do for her long driving days previously, so the spark plugs and seafoam helped some(or maybe tightening the gas cap)?
 
#20 ·
We have just gotten out of those temps! LOL
Those are the voltage numbers from the display of the scanner,maybe scanner I have is reading in a different scale as all values do change and frequently. All my other vehicles have older systems and O2 sensors are three wire unlike this year kia. Maybe that is what may be messing up my thinking process. the Link you sent me is quite informative and I will be rereading and watching the video that is in it until I got it "nailed". Also the car is gone for the day again and won't be available tonight. Thanks again
BTW the scanner is an Actron CP9580A that was given to me minus instruction booklet
 
#21 ·
Events happened that I got the chance to ride with daughter for a 20 mile ride home from my son's swim meet. I had brought along my scanner if this would happen that daughter would show up after work. Did a set up of scanner and NO codes found after her 70+ miles of driving today, not even a pending. EVAP monitor self test was still incomplete. after cat warmed up the B1S! was reading in a range of 2.200V while B1S2 was reading in a range from .850V down to 0.0v and quickly back up to anywhere of .375 to .750V. I believe the 0v reading was during EVAP purge cycle that read 100% at around a 1.325V H2O according to pid name of my scanner.
The BIG thing I noticed was that my daughter "feather foots" this car, even from a stop and the trans going thru its upshifts the rpms RARELY exceeded 2,500 RPM. I am leaning to think that either a ground connection on the motor is corroded (high resistance) or that at nearly 100,000 miles that the B1S1 is just plain worn out. Also think that the injectors were "dirty" and Seafoam fuel treatment is cleaning them up, but because she does not even give it half throttle that they are still "dirty" The big surprise was that NO codes or pending codes were found before the ride or after the the ride. So to all you "super sleuths" that have been following this saga of a case, this is the latest and best info I can give. And yikes the B1S1 sensor is not exactly what I would call an inexpensive part to replace at a range of $100.00 - $150.00 US dollars!
 
#22 · (Edited)
It's back!

Well? daughter went to work and on the way back home got gas again(not even to 3/4 mark). Said CEL came back on AFTER getting gas.
went out and checked cap and it was tight this time. scanned for codes AGAIN. EVAP monitor test still incomplete and 2 sets of P0139 and P0139 pending in the memory(was empty as of last check/run). Tried to go into record mode and this scanner is not working to collect graphing for this vehicle but readings were pretty much the same as posted earlier when I drove it tonight. I am still thinking either a poor ground connection on the motor(it was pressure washed before we bought the car) or the B1S1 is worn out and its high voltage readings are messing up everything else. the car has always run like I think it should and shows no signs of symptoms of having a problem. IF I can get some time with it in DAYLIGHT, I will try and find any ground connections on the motor and make sure they are good. I am coming to my "wits end" on this one, and can not believe that the replaced B1S2 is a bad part or the converter is bad.
 
#23 ·
Had a couple of MINUTES of daylight before daughter left for class, Found only 1 small ground wire from intake manifold to right strut tower, No time to pull out tools to remove fasteners but the connections looked good. From what i am understanding of the O2 system functions ,if the MAF is reading lean and thus richening the system then the O2 sensors would show high voltage readings at the B1S1.But this still does not make sense that the B1S2 would say slow to read and be the ONLY code. The runner between the MAF and throttle body looked well secured and did not exhibit any problems(cracking). As a normal thing I do(when the car is avail) I checked the oil level. It was in good range but it smelled a little gassy on the dipstick, yet did feel like the proper thickness of a normal oil feel.
Unfortunately she will not be home again until late Sunday evening to be able to do any further checks. My plan is to remove the intake tube and inspect/clean the TB and MAF(with MAF cleaner) and then start checking EVAP system.Although I am still at a loss as to how the EVAP monitor test can be incomplete and NO EVAP code show up. From much internet searching some parameter checks must be done with a professional grade tester or by Kia's proprietary equipment. I truly hope that I will find a dirty TB or MAF and that is the root cause of this nightmare!
I have not seen a lot of help on the matter(even to my proposed possible actions), But appreciated those who have responded along with the MANY "super sleuths" that have been following this case!
 
#24 ·
after cat warmed up the B1S! was reading in a range of 2.200V
Go back and read the info I supplied, this O2 MUST switch...
the max you can produce with O2 is 1.0V (fully rich)

B1S2 was reading in a range from .850V down to 0.0v and quickly back up to anywhere of .375 to .750V.
This reading is switching, this is what the B1S1 (upstream) should look like.

Are you sure you are reporting the correct designation..

Post some graphs for the observations.. otherwise we cannot help..

... Philip
 
#25 ·
Hey Aquanaut ....
Shouldn't the B1S2 stay around .79v and NOT fluctuate like it is doing.... My secondary/downstream O2 sensors barely move on my 06 and 07 Spectras...
I thought the B1S2 should not be changing much "if" the first cat was in good condition as this sensor is basically used to monitor the condition of the first cat and does nothing to change the A/F mix... With Mia Kia being in New York State they probably have a lot of salt on the road and I would look for corrosion (blue to green powder) on the O2 sensors...
The engine being "cleaned" may indicate the first owner not taking care of the car and the dealer trying to cover this... I the car was running poorly before they got it the primary/upstream cat (located within the exhaust manifold) may have been damaged BUT that should be reported as a code on poor CAT efficiency... Was the gas cap replaced or just played with?..
Had this code (P0139) on a friends Ford Explorer and the gas cap WAS the cause...
Just some thoughts....

I ask the below as a precaution on the car...
Oh BTW has the timing belt been replaced on the Spectra? I didn't check past posts but the engine is an interference type and the belt breaking (at 97k) will badly damage the engine..
Dave
 
#27 · (Edited)
Hey Aquanaut ....
Shouldn't the B1S2 stay around .79v and NOT fluctuate like it is doing.... My secondary/downstream O2 sensors barely move on my 06 and 07 Spectras...
I thought the B1S2 should not be changing much "if" the first cat was in good condition as this sensor is basically used to monitor the condition of the first cat and does nothing to change the A/F mix...
Dave you are correct, as I have been indicating, the B1S2 should be relatively stable .5 -.7v, depending on CAT condition..

Yes the timing belt would be a concern if not monitored..

.. Philip
 
#26 ·
Thanks all, and I MEAN IT!
The gas cap was "played with" as I have had troubles from my mopar minivan for that, (P0420) and always cap or some small EVAP leak.
I stated before that my scanner may be reading in a different scale, much like using a VOM. I did while car was hooked up and running was able to watch short duration graph of individual readings of each of the O2 sensors. They were close ^(waveform) spikes from that stated voltage readings and when I would switch to the other sensor the graph scale closely matched in ^ the other except showing the different voltage scale of the readings.
And the car was NOT maintained, it was just given oil change type service, as cabin filter plugs and AF were all original, and showed extreme use.
And yes, I am stuck on just why the B1S1 is reading so high as all seems to be working.
And I do not know without doubt about timing belt replacement having been done, and am well aware of its' need for steady maintenance schedule care. I can't recall just how I got a "peek" at a portion of it but it looked to be in good shape as for wear glaze and not displaying any cracking. As I have had many timing belt equipped cars and DEF. know what you are talking about! Hopefully that is a good weather/pry car from daughter for 2 days(to give some time insurance) project ASAP!
And I tried to download into my pc and it would not recognize the scanner, we have switched to a new operating system since I last did this function with the scan tool. And I am NOT that PC computer Savvy to mess with that. LOL
 
#28 ·
I am stuck on just why the B1S1 is reading so high as all seems to be working.
Not only is it reading higher than MAX design but is is not switching...

I would be checking this circuit for a short to an outside power source..
  • first verify the output from O2 (disconnected) engine running, MM/scope, then
  • check the harness connection for any stray power, power on/engine off,

Timing belt can break/separate without any outside indicators.. remember they are operating in severe heat conditions and stresses..

..philip
 
#29 · (Edited)
Thanks for the reply! I had been "mulling" over high reading causes and was still drawing a blank because no other code present for the particular parts in question. This morning I did eyeball the B1S1 and it looks pretty rusty/heat discolored but did not "play" with its' connector. But am wondering if the heater wire may be shorting as I get 4-5 V readings COLD for that sensor, But then again NO direct code.
As soon as I can get my hands on the car I will start checking as suggested on the B1S1.

BTW: other than being able to obviously tell that the engine bay has been pressure washed, ALL wiring harnesses and such look like new in layout and appearance. This car was well used but NOT chopped up.
 
#30 ·
Mia,
Unfortunately codes that set under the OBDII protocol, must fall in a specific condition and especially for Environmental..
The parameters MUST not be substitute values. May not always trigger!
Some times (more often than not) trigger falsely, costing many $$ for the uninitiated and those lazy mechanics..

With the more advances scanners, the Mfg specific data is available, many times more info.

I often resort to using a DSO (scope)..

... Philip
 
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