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#11 (permalink) Old 02-16-2013, 10:53 AM
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You can get usb socket for less than £2 on poular auction website. They just plug in to your cig socket.
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#12 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 04:53 AM
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You can't use those to play musing from USB drives.
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#13 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DavesSpectra View Post
One programming bug (like INTEL had with their Pentium processor) could spell a tragedy..
Why should that be any worse than a design/manufacturing fault on a vital mechanical part?

Compared to processors that go into PCs, car electronics is pretty mature by the time it gets to the dealer's forecourt. And if you do get a car with a chip or software design fault it's unlikely to work away happily for 3 years before that particular section is accessed. (Or if it does, it will be another 3 years before it happens again. But repeated over 500000 cars, it would be statistically quite noticeable.)

There is also an enormous difference between the software in a car and a PC. Every car leaving the factory is the same. And car software will be same 10 years after it left the factory. So it is more akin to your tv remote control than to a PC. A PC changes from the moment a customer merely turns it on and off (one curiosity about Windows is that it says it is saving something when switching off even if nothing has been done), let alone after entering their preferences and loading dodgy apps off the internet. It's really quite remarkable that a PC works at all for more than 5 minutes.

I agree, though, about the start/stop button. Just a silly fashion item.
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#14 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 05:28 PM
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To address your opening statement...
"Why should that be any worse than a design/manufacturing fault on a vital mechanical part?"
TOO MANY VARIABLES and interactions between systems...

All of the Millions of Intel processors "were the same" and their "simple calculating error" built into those processors DID cause such MAJOR problems such that an external piece of software had to be added to make sure that firmware calculation was never used. This "bug" was not found UNTIL the CPUs were installed and in public domain.

If you check the interaction between MPUs (ECM/TCM/BCM/SRS/ABS (antilock braking) /etc...) an "error" may not be "found" before a mix of the combined functions of the intercommunicating MPUs strike like a "true" slot machine (not like the programmed ones that do not randomly "pay out")..
The 2007~2008 Spectras had a problem with their "auto off" headlights coming back on (in the middle of night most times) when an internal programming bug hit on the right combination of variables were "hit" and it drained the battery. ...Found AFTER a year of driving them...Yes the software was corrected and the "bug" squashed but not ALL Spectras had this problem and there are still some with the old code on the road today.

NOT ALL cars leaving the factory have the SAME programming.. Ref: Canada's so called security system is not here in the USA, ABS on "some" models, Cruse control on some models, manual & automatic versions, anti-skid, traction control...I can go on and on....

Your statement "Every car leaving the factory is the same. And car software will be same 10 years after it left the factory." is also flawed and incorrect...
Some cars will get updates in firmware and others will slip through the cracks up till the day they are no longer driven.

You better check on your windows statement also...Windoz8 (typed that way on purpose) MOST definitely DOES save an "image" of the last few seconds to the hard drive to make you believe it's "faster" than it's earlier OS's.. And thankfully you CAN defeat that "improvement"...

I choose to run a "flavor" of Linux called Kubuntu because I DON'T trust the thieves at MS... Better programing, free, and open source to keep my computer running faster and safer from all the problems MS "sees".

Software "code" has become commonly millions of lines long and when "updates"/corrections/modifications are then added to that base software it becomes no longer practical or possible to check each and every logic statement and subroutine. Errors do get past..

Microsoft FINALLY saw that "Vista" was a SLOW HOG and spent millions of dollars removing dead end code that went back to DOS 1.0.. Windows7 is a much better OS than Vista... Windows8 is also not being well received.

I understand that there are TOO MANY variables in software/firmware/hardware to trust...That's why I want to be able to "pull the plug" (and mechanically disconnect power when absolutely necessary). I also have an "honest to God" RESET button to regain control over hardware/software problems.
Dave
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#15 (permalink) Old 02-17-2013, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavesSpectra View Post
To address your opening statement...
"Why should that be any worse than a design/manufacturing fault on a vital mechanical part?"
TOO MANY VARIABLES and interactions between systems...

All of the Millions of Intel processors "were the same" and their "simple calculating error" built into those processors DID cause such MAJOR problems such that an external piece of software had to be added to make sure that firmware calculation was never used. This "bug" was not found UNTIL the CPUs were installed and in public domain.
Yep, being the same was precisely the point. And you ignore that electronics devices in cars will be very mature before reaching the user; engine management and ABS have been around for well over 20 years and unlike the flashy bits for the consumer's eyes, the development cycle need have no concerns about fashion.
Quote:
If you check the interaction between MPUs (ECM/TCM/BCM/SRS/ABS (antilock braking) /etc...) an "error" may not be "found" before a mix of the combined functions of the intercommunicating MPUs strike like a "true" slot machine (not like the programmed ones that do not randomly "pay out")..
The 2007~2008 Spectras had a problem with their "auto off" headlights coming back on (in the middle of night most times) when an internal programming bug hit on the right combination of variables were "hit" and it drained the battery. ...Found AFTER a year of driving them...Yes the software was corrected and the "bug" squashed but not ALL Spectras had this problem and there are still some with the old code on the road today.
Unless all did it, that wouldn't be a characteristic of a software problem. A problem occuring outside the software domain that can be fixed with a software workround, perhaps.
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NOT ALL cars leaving the factory have the SAME programming.. Ref: Canada's so called security system is not here in the USA, ABS on "some" models, Cruse control on some models, manual & automatic versions, anti-skid, traction control...I can go on and on....
The ECU in my car probably has all the functionality for cruise control even though I have been given no means to access it. It will almost certainly have all the capability to interract with an auto box controller even though auto is not fitted. Individual boxes may be electrically connected the ECU but likely only because the ECU contains a hub for diagnostics - physical connection to the box does not mean separate functions must inevitably interract in a complex manner.

Quote:
Your statement "Every car leaving the factory is the same. And car software will be same 10 years after it left the factory." is also flawed and incorrect...
Some cars will get updates in firmware and others will slip through the cracks up till the day they are no longer driven.
Doesn't alter the principle. My 5 year old Ceed has had one engine update and it's unlikely to get another which still means only two flavours will be in service. Even then, as engine management is so heavily table driven, they probably only changed a few parameters, not the operating code.

Quote:
You better check on your windows statement also...Windoz8 (typed that way on purpose) MOST definitely DOES save an "image" of the last few seconds to the hard drive
That's precisely what I said. Why are are saying I'm wrong, other than not reading? Other than that, just hold on to what I said about car systems not being not being like a PC.
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#16 (permalink) Old 02-18-2013, 09:52 AM
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wow thats a lot to take in guys - glad I use a Mac

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#17 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Nikola View Post
^ amen to the above.

Btw, I got my radio replaced once under warranty, the second unit is relatively ok. (Not 100% satisfied with it, but I can use it on a daily basis (playing CDs), which was not the case with the replaced one). If I had a usb socket, I would not complain. It sometimes stops & ejects the CDs though...
In 1,5 year i replace HU three times under warranty then i finally bought kenwood and know i finaly have peace
The Oem HU is low quality siemens aka blaupunkt/sucks
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#18 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 03:50 AM
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Indeed it sucks.

However, I'm worried that someone would smash my window and take the new unit out...most of them don't come with detachable front panel as old 1DIN units did.. or they do come with a detachable front panel, but cost too much. (At least, last time I was browsing to see what's being offered)

Plus, the guys at KIA here don't want to install it, and they void the warranty if someone from aside tampers with electrics..
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