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#1 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 06:13 PM
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Default ceed sw2 flash update

Having an ongoing issue after flash update in an attempt to fix cruise control issues. I have lost the indication on the dash computer for most economical points to shift down. I still have the upshift indication display, but these points also seem to have changed. Has anyone else encountered this issue after getting a flash update. What rpm/mph does your sw2 computer jndicate changing from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th? Mine indicates changing from 4th to 5th at 38mph and to 6th at 43mph. At all my shift points, the power/torque after shifting is sluggish and the mpg has suffered greatly. just filled up on the weekend and was struggling to get into the thirties in town. wife drove to perth from dundee and back and it just hit 37mpg average. Before the flash, this was 47 in town and that same run to perth would have been mid fifties. Has anyone else noticed this after having the flash update? Can anyone verify that the indicstor for shifting applies to shifting up and down, as the KIA mechanic tried to tell me it only indicated the need to downshift when the car was in sixth or fifth gear. Any help is appreciated

Last edited by wizypuss; 01-23-2013 at 06:15 PM. Reason: spelling
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#2 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 04:05 AM
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The gear change indicator may in theory give you better mpg but I have been driving since the early 70's and personally feel no need to follow it advice. You should be watching the road not the dash, its a dangerous distraction.

If you cannot judge when its time to change gear I would suggest extra driving tuition rather than having to watch the dash.

Or buy an auto.
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#3 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 08:58 AM
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Is that MPG figure taken from the dash confuser or your mileage per tank matey?

Assuming you're changing gear at the same kinda revs/speed you did before the flash, consumption shouldn't change much at all. concerning that both you & wifey have noticed 10+ mpg drops since the flash, I'd certainly get that checked out.

The drop wouldn't be down to winter diesel change-over would it? I guess Scotland's been on that since Oct/November, so would've noticed any difference weeks ago.

I'm with the KIA guy on downshifts; my old 2009 pro only showed the downshift arrow in top 2 gears.

Good luck getting your figures back up to par.

If in doubt, Accelerate!
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#4 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 01:12 PM
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Mpg is figure on miles vs. amount of fuel. My dash fuel estimate is off by 3_4 mpg since update. As far as the shift indication,the book even says for the sw 2011 that it is across all gears. It was immediately after the flash update in the end of september that I noticed all the issues. Now, my concern with the rpm change is that it is coordinated by the comouter, and even if I followed the old designation points, would the economy be the same. I have tried it over 2 tanks of petrol and it made little difference. This is why I was seeking someone that had a 2011 sw to compare like for like. Thank you for your input though

Last edited by wizypuss; 01-24-2013 at 01:13 PM. Reason: spelling
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#5 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 02:43 PM
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any one with a2011 ceed having issues?

Last edited by wizypuss; 01-25-2013 at 02:55 AM. Reason: you were right Ajay, so I edited it Thanks
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#6 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 05:22 PM
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This thread isnt going to end well.......
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#7 (permalink) Old 01-25-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by wizypuss View Post
Having an ongoing issue after flash update in an attempt to fix cruise control issues. I have lost the indication on the dash computer for most economical points to shift down. I still have the upshift indication display, but these points also seem to have changed. Has anyone else encountered this issue after getting a flash update. What rpm/mph does your sw2 computer jndicate changing from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th? Mine indicates changing from 4th to 5th at 38mph and to 6th at 43mph. At all my shift points, the power/torque after shifting is sluggish and the mpg has suffered greatly. just filled up on the weekend and was struggling to get into the thirties in town. wife drove to perth from dundee and back and it just hit 37mpg average. Before the flash, this was 47 in town and that same run to perth would have been mid fifties.
Sorry I can't offer direct assistance but your post arouses the technical spirit in me.

~ If you think the shift advice is wrong can't you switch the display off or just ignore it? The advice is probably ok for steady cruising speed but if it does not take acceleration/hills into account, it is surely in chocolate teapot territory. Accelerating briskly up to cruising speed with higher revs does not cost fuel.

~ I have read on the Hyundai forum something about an economy switch on the dash, though no one seems to know what it does. Does the Ceed have one and does it change the shift points?

~ There is no downshift point for better economy. Economy is always best in the highest gear that meets driving conditions. The response at low speed is poor because the ECU "knows" (by programmed parameters) how much fuel the engine can burn in any given conditions. The pedal merely issues an electronic request to the ECU and so the idea of "pedalling" in excess fuel in that doesn't burn doesn't occur. So called "labouring" is merely a driveline vibration and isn't some suggestion of internal distress. Other cars have expensive DMFs to reduce it.

~ If I am wrong in the above, consider how far in any journey you are operating in this non-optimal region. Let's say you travel 10 miles and the net distance travelled in a non-optimal gear is 1 mile and that this distance has a 10% penalty, the overall effect on consumption is only going to be 1%. So it is difficult to see how the change in indication causes the change you observe in fuel usage.
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#8 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ace Demon View Post
Sorry I can't offer direct assistance but your post arouses the technical spirit in me.

~ If you think the shift advice is wrong can't you switch the display off or just ignore it? The advice is probably ok for steady cruising speed but if it does not take acceleration/hills into account, it is surely in chocolate teapot territory. Accelerating briskly up to cruising speed with higher revs does not cost fuel.

~ I have read on the Hyundai forum something about an economy switch on the dash, though no one seems to know what it does. Does the Ceed have one and does it change the shift points?

~ There is no downshift point for better economy. Economy is always best in the highest gear that meets driving conditions. The response at low speed is poor because the ECU "knows" (by programmed parameters) how much fuel the engine can burn in any given conditions. The pedal merely issues an electronic request to the ECU and so the idea of "pedalling" in excess fuel in that doesn't burn doesn't occur. So called "labouring" is merely a driveline vibration and isn't some suggestion of internal distress. Other cars have expensive DMFs to reduce it.

~ If I am wrong in the above, consider how far in any journey you are operating in this non-optimal region. Let's say you travel 10 miles and the net distance travelled in a non-optimal gear is 1 mile and that this distance has a 10% penalty, the overall effect on consumption is only going to be 1%. So it is difficult to see how the change in indication causes the change you observe in fuel usage.
There is not a way to turn it off, but that isn't an issue for me. I am wondering if there is a problem with the update, as this is when the issues arose. I am now trying to find out if anyone else notices it. A lot of people that I have talked to, say that when they bought their used C'eed, the lndicator only showed upshift points. However,the book indicates that, if this option is installed, it indicates through the whole range of gears. This makes me wonder if their vehicle already had the update. My worry is not that I don't have indication point, but what else the program has affected. If others never knew they were supposed to have that option and didn' t make the connection, then KIA tech would not be looking to see if there was an issue....and neither would the mechanics. It would just be put down to how the owner is driving. I have driven using just the indication points through a few tanks of diesel, and then driving without using the indication points .....the result was that the indications added 1or2 miles per gallon to the average. This still stayed in the range of37-39 combined driving. It used to be that, upon fill up, the computer would estimate 572-630 miles to the tank an the avg mpg would zoom up to 63mpg and slowly settle to the high 40' s low 50' s as the driving went on. Now it estimates 390-420 miles to the tank, and when filling up it resets but efficiency starts at 17mpg and takes a gallon to 2 gallons before it increases to the high 20' s. perplexing and digging into my wallet.
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#9 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 07:17 PM
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There is not a way to turn it off, but that isn't an issue for me. I am wondering if there is a problem with the update, as this is when the issues arose.
.....
This still stayed in the range of 37-39 combined driving. It used to be that, upon fill up, the computer would estimate 572-630 miles to the tank an the avg mpg would zoom up to 63mpg and slowly settle to the high 40' s low 50' s
When they perform a software update, they could change fuel pressure, boost pressure, turbo geometry, egr, swirl flap, injection timing...

So it seems, as you say, the problem is probably not the effect the indicator has on your driving but that the change corresponded with something else that has broken the engine. Certainly, the behaviour of the dashboard display musn't be taken as meaningful.

When they updated mine I got the impression the performance had come down (*) but it is not possible to see any change in pattern in average fuel consumption.

(*) My impression was that 30-60 in 3rd had deteriorated but it is difficult to be sure whether it is real or a suggestion put in my mind from hearing stories of turbos being replaced under warranty. However, peak instaneous fuel consumption when floored also doesn't drop as much as it used to which seems to corroborate this. (Unless the update changed the behaviour of the display a change in indication has to be performance related, impossible to be efficiency related. Ye cannae change the laws of physics cap'n.)
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#10 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 05:38 AM
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Regardless of the 'estimated to empty' and 'average mpg' readings on dash;

How many miles did you get from a 'full to empty' tank before the update, and how many are you getting now?

If in doubt, Accelerate!
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