Replacing the Fuel Temperature Sensor - 2004 KIA Sedona - Kia Forum
User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 09:08 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Red face Replacing the Fuel Temperature Sensor - 2004 KIA Sedona

So far this job is proceeding like most things on my KIA, a struggle. I thought others might find this helpful.

My wife's 2004 KIA Sedona started showing a check engine light. I used my scan tool and saw that the code referred to a Fuel Temperature Sensor. I looked for a Technical Service Bulletin on this error but could not find one. I found someone's post where they had pasted the troubleshooting steps from KIA for this issue. Involves checking for the correct voltage and ground and then replacing the temperature sensor if they look OK. I reset the code hoping it might have been an aberration but the code came back.

Next I had to find out where the Fuel Temperature Sensor is. The fact that I cannot buy a Haynes or Chilton manual for this van is still a point of frustration but is not so bad because KIA offers the on-line manual at www.kiatechinfo.com. However this week I cannot get the on-line manual to display in my web browser. Either Internet Explorer or Firefox, under both Windows or Linux. So that option was gone. Continuing to search the internet I found suggestions that it was probably in the gas tank. Further searching on the internet and it suggested that you might be able to access the fuel pump through an access door in the floor of the van without removing the gas tank from underneath. All of this took time to find and nothing was definite because people's posts refer to different years but it gave me some hope because removing the gas tank (which was heavy and almost full of gas) was a hassle I would rather avoid.

I located the access door, remove the screws and could see the top of the Fuel pump, 2 fuel lines, some other items in the top of the gas tank and several wiring cables with connectors. I could see that the fuel pump was secured with 6 philips head screws. After poking around, disconnecting the cables I could see nowhere that the Fuel Temperature Sensor was, so figured it must be in the tank, under the fuel pump. I left the job at this point, closed everything up and decided to get a new Fuel Temperature Sensor before I went any further. Without having a fuel temperature sensor in my hand I was not sure I would even recognize it.

I checked at NAPA, who without even looking in his system said they did not carry it. furthermore he said that KIA is very protective of patents and therefore they do not have many aftermarket parts for anything KIA, that I would have to go to the dealer. I checked on-line at Rockauto and at another parts store, none had one. Because the 3 closest KIA dealers to me all closed it is a hassle to go there, I also have to go there when they are open.

In the meantime my wife reported that sometimes the van would crank and crank and crank and not start for quite a while. I had this happen to me once while driving it. I figured it probably had to do with the faulty Fuel Temperature Sensor. I sent my wife to the closest KIA dealer to get a new one. Fortunately they had one in stock but it was around $27. She brought it home, it is very small.





Since I already new where the Fuel Pump access hole was and how it was secured to the tank, I thought I would tackle it quickly on a week night and replace it. Even though I have a great garage to work in at home, the endless rain we have gotten the last several weeks have created a swarm of mosquitoes and 20+ must have sneaked into the garage when I pulled the van in and quickly closed the door.

While swatting off mosquitoes I pulled one of the middle seats out, pulled back the carpeting, opened the access hole and started to remove the 6 screws that held the Fuel Pump on. 3 of the screws removed quickly and easily. They are surprisingly small. One of the screws broke off in the tank and 2 of the screws the heads started to strip out. At this point I knew this was not going well and realized my wife would be without her vehicle for several days if I could not get this back together and this would not be good timing. So I put the 3 good screws back in and hoped it would seal well enough with only 5 of the 6 screws holding it down.


--
I am the cause of my own suffering - but only all of it.

Last edited by shocksystems; 07-26-2009 at 07:52 PM.
shocksystems is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 09:12 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Default Continued

The wan worked for the rest of the week and I started on the repair again Friday night. I opened the access door, disconnected the cables and removed the fuel lines. One of the fuel lines pulled off easily and the other line would not budge.





I realized that if I had any hope of getting the rounded out screws out without breaking them I would need to pull the gas tank so that I have clearer access to them and maybe I would coax them out with vice grips. I put the van on my lift (I love my lift, I am fortunate) so that I could see the gas tank straps. I loosened the 2 straps up but not completely because I did not want a heavy gas tank falling on top of me or to the floor, while ripping off the fuel lines and cables. I then lowered the lift almost completely, slid under the van and removed the strap bolts. The tank swung down and got hung on the remaining fuel line, the fill tube and a rubber vent hose that was connected. I was not too concerned because they look like black rubber lines and I know from experience they are pretty flexible. I realized though with closer inspection that the black rubber is just on the outside of a semi-rigid blue fuel line and that the lines were getting kinked. Not good, I did not want them to spring a leak.

I am still not sure precisely how I am supposed to manipulate the fuel line connectors to get them to release. It looked like I was supposed to squeeze the sides and pull. The remaining one got mangled a bit as I squeezed and pulled using a pair of pliers because it would not come off with my hands, I finally got them both off.





I also removed the fill tube and the vent. The hose clamp holding the fill tube was corroded and the screw head broke off so I had to cut the hose clamp off. No big deal they are generic and easy to replace.

Last edited by shocksystems; 07-26-2009 at 07:52 PM. Reason: add spaces between photos
shocksystems is offline  
#3 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 09:16 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Default Continued further further

I got the tank out from under the lift/van and on to the floor where I would work on it. I moved it outside because of the gas fumes and fortunately the rain has stopped. I removed the 3 good screws quickly and easily. I then carefully used my vice grips on the 2 rounded out screws and proceeded to mangle the heads further and further. They would not budge. I already had one screw broken off and realized that I was about to have 3 of the 6 broken off. I had not choice so I chiseled off these 2 screw heads (and prayed I would not send a spark into the gas fumes thereby ending my life). So now I was able to remove the fuel pump.

These screws are incredibly small a soft.



Sure enough, there along the side of the fuel pump I could see the evil fuel temperature sensor.



At least I had not done this for nothing. But now came the difficult choice, how am I going to deal with the screws broken off. I sprayed them with liquid wrench, used the vice grips again with the hope I could back the screw shafts out but they proceeded to break off flush with the tank. *sigh*





Were this anything non flammable/explosive I would probably just drill the 3 screws out and re-tap the holes for new screws. But it is a gas tank, full of fumes. I debated back and forth and talked to my father about options. This what I came up with.

1) I could just try drilling the holes and hope nothing explodes
2) I could get a towel soaking wet with water, lay it over the hole where the fuel pump was, cover any other holes and try drilling them out and hope nothing explodes
3) I could empty the tank, fill the entire tank with water and then drill the holes out with the tank full of water (I do not think there is any risk of explosion if I did this but I would need to be confident that I could get all of the water out of all of the related hoses and the tank after).
4) I could buy a new gas tank and new screws to secure the fuel pump to the new tank.
5) Further investigate whether or not it is true that a solution is available that you could put in an empty gas tank and eliminate/reduce the risk of fumes thereby allowing me to do the repair

I tried to get an aftermarket gas tank. Not available on rockauto.com and when I called advance and autozone they both said they cannot get gas tanks for KIA vehicles.

I called the closest KIA dealer. Approximately $475 for a new tank (ouch!) and they do not have it in stock, they will not get it in until Wednesday if I order it.

Thinking it over, I have to be somewhere all day on Saturday and would have to deal with it on Sunday, if I try option 1, 2 or 3. I decided to bite the bullet and do number 4. I ordered the gas tank. Now I have to deal with alternate transportation for my wife through at least Wednesday and I still have to finish the repair and hope that the temporary kinking of the fuel lines did not cause a problem.

I will continue this post as I finish the job .............

Last edited by shocksystems; 07-26-2009 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Add spaces between photos
shocksystems is offline  
#4 (permalink) Old 07-29-2009, 08:40 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Red face Installing the new tank

The new tank showed up today, just when the dealer said it would. Went to pick it up and the guy at the parts counter did me a favor. He mentioned that he gave me the shop discount because it was so ridiculously expensive for the new tank. I thanked him profusely, paid for the new tank and the 6 screws and was on my way. Total with the 5% sales tax was just about $421. Very very expensive but around $80 less than it would have been. A very nice, clean dealership to deal with. (Commonwealth Motors in Lawrence MA)

First I took the old Fuel Temperature sensor off of the fuel pump and replaced it with the new one. Was pretty self explanatory. Here is a picture of the fuel pump with the old FTS partially removed.




Next I uninstalled everything from the old tank and installed it on the new tank, using the new screws. One more screw broke off in the old tank during the process, oh well, glad I bought the new screws. I noticed that the new tank did not come with the foam/rubber pads so I tore them off of the old tank and adhered them to the new tank using some 3M adhesive I bought at Napa.



I mounted the tank back in the van, connected the fill tube, the vent, the fuel lines and screwed the straps back down. It went in nice and tight. I also went back into the van and reconnected the wires and the fuel lines and closed up the covers.

I poured gas back in the tank that I siphoned from the old one and fired her up. Everything worked fine. I took it for a ride to buy subs for dinner and discovered there is a clunk somewhere that I hear every time I go over a bump. It might be something between the tank and the floor. Not sure what it is. I checked everything I could and everything is tight. I will need to pull the tank down again and look for what could be causing the noise, just did not have the time (or the energy) to do it tonight.

Cheers!

Jim
shocksystems is offline  
#5 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 06:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 370
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Default

Those fuel pipes have a special internal plastic clip that is not released by squeezing the sides of the fitting you need a special release tool that is very easy to buy at any parts store as unfortunately most makers are using those pipes now.
Check those pipes have unbroken internal clips before refitting them as they can fall off inservice if they are damaged.
Classic boy is offline  
#6 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 08:31 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thread Starter (Thread Starter)
Default I wonder what the tool is called.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic boy View Post
Those fuel pipes have a special internal plastic clip that is not released by squeezing the sides of the fitting you need a special release tool that is very easy to buy at any parts store as unfortunately most makers are using those pipes now.
Check those pipes have unbroken internal clips before refitting them as they can fall off inservice if they are damaged.
Thanks! I wonder what the tool is called. Maybe I can find it on-line somewhere. I will have to bring a picture of the fittings to the store otherwise.

Cheers!

Jim
shocksystems is offline  
#7 (permalink) Old 01-02-2011, 11:55 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Default

Jim,

Thanks for posting this, I was wondering what I was getting myself into when I bought the sensor. I was lucky enough to get 5 of the screws out without any damage, I used an impact driver (the kind you hit with a hammer) to loosen up the screws, but one was just too stubborn and I stripped the head completely. From your posts I was afraid I'd have to replace my fuel tank, or at least pull it off the van. I put the other 5 screws back on the pump so that any fumes were confined to the tank. Then I drilled the screw just far enough that the head came off. Then I removed the 5 good screws, disconnected the fuel lines and took the pump out (I bought the fuel line removal tool, but I'm not sure it helped). Anyway, once the pump was out and I removed the rubber gasket on the tank, there was just enough screw sticking out to get it out with a pair of vise grips. I had no luck with needle nose pliers, I definitely recommend vise grips or some pliers with really sharp teeth. I went down to Home Depot and picked up 6 new screws (they're M4-0.7 thread, 10mm long). I went with hex head, thinking they might be easier to get out if I ever have to do this again! As usual the wiring harness on the sensor the dealership gave me was wrong and I couldn't plug the sensor in, but with a small screwdriver and a lot of fiddling around, I was able to get the connector from the old sensor to release the pins, I did the same with the new sensor, then stuck the new sensor pins into the old sensor's connector. So far it's working great, no check engine light for the past day.

Thanks,
Chris

Last edited by csalinardi; 01-02-2011 at 11:59 AM.
csalinardi is offline  
#8 (permalink) Old 08-04-2012, 05:50 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Default Replacing Fuel Temp Switch

Hi Jim,
I'm in the same (sinking) boat as you with your wife's van. Albeit an '05, the same thing is applicable. I now know what that little patch on the carpet is for. More great info. I absolutely hate breaking screws, for that very reason, so, I'll bite my bullet with the dealership. Rather than the new tank, screws, giant tub-o-grief, etc, I'll let THEM break the screws, use their little magic pliers to remove the fuel hoses, smell the gas, and put my little sensor in. I'm sure that cost offset of the new tank that you suffered will pay for the technician's time....... hopefully.
Thank-you very much for a very descriptive account of the affair, and if your intent was to save someone the pain by giving the instructions, then mission accomplished! I'm off to the dealer on Tuesday morn. I'll let the thread know of the results so a comparison may be available from the DIYer to the chicken who goes to the dealer
KillNAction is offline  
#9 (permalink) Old 08-30-2012, 12:19 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2
Gallery: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Default

Well, all done - dealership style.
I took it in for a 9:30 appointment, arrived early, and left it. An hour and a half later, I get the call that "they'll be getting it in right away". (sighhh). At the 2 hour mark, while now sitting in the waiting room, I'm met by the service rep who tells me that "it's the fuel temperature sensor that's defective"..... Really??? Isn't that what I said 2 hours previously??? Ok. Good. "Authorized", I say. "Fix it". Well, they can't. The part has to be ordered in. So, I get to take another trip back later. I'm charged 1.3 hours at $116/hr for the diagnostic, plus shop charges, taxes, etc. worked out to about $200
The following week, the call call comes in and so is the part. Another day off work booked and in we go for the installation. Appointment set, van in, part installed. An hour and half labour and $65 (ish) for the part, plus the "this-that charges", and we're out the door again for a little under $250.
So, I took "the easy way out", and avoided the busted screws and new tank, not t mention the possible marital councelling.
KillNAction is offline  
Reply

  Kia Forum > KIA Models > Kia Carnival & Sedona Forum


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On