My review of people movers

[Carnaval Grande]

Small Comparisons

The family had expanded and we needed a bigger car.
I might note here that this review is not to review cars as if they were race cars like a lot of magazines do, and is not to criticise one tiny little bump in the road that the suspension didn’t dampen. It’s really an overall review.
So what options are out there for people with a family? I looked at a few:

Ford Territory TS
Ford Territory Turbo
Toyota Tarago
Chrysler Voyager
Kia Carnival
Kia Grand Carnival

I was originally had my mind dead set on getting a Territory. I looked at and drove 2 models: The TS, and the Turbo. I had in the back of my mind that it could come with a 3rd row which I was interested in, however, I did notice that boot space would be lack if that was the case.
As expected, the Territory came with all the features I expected from a middle range Falcon. So reviewing the interior would be pointless. I took the TS out for a drive. I was driving the AWD model with a 6 speed gearbox. I noticed that 1st gear was a little lacking in top end speed, but realised this could be good for off roading and towing. Ride and comfort were just as good as a Falcon in my mind, and considering that this vehicle was up higher, this was a good thing. I was also happy being up a little higher as I could see over the top off quite a few cars… There were also a few little features in the Territory that impressed me. One of which was the glass opening door of the hatch. Could come in handy. I swapped the cars and took out the Turbo model. Features were pretty much the same. I must say, that for a turbo model, I was disappointed with the performance. Although it may have the figures to prove it is good at what it does… it just didn’t feel like a turbo to me. The engine was quite, I couldn’t hear the turbo very well, and, at full throttle, it didn’t push me in the back of my seat. Sure, it got up to speed very fast, but other then that, it felt lacking. It also felt very gutless from a standing start. I must admit I wasn’t looking at the speedo, but until we were rolling, it really felt like it bogged down… and this was unladen.

I then started to think, if I wanted a 7 seater, why not a minivan…

I looked at a carnival, but was not impressed by it’s engine, features or reputation. A big turn off was the fact that the windows on the sliding doors were fixed and would not open. A mate of mine had one and had had a few engines. Ok, so big deal. Kia had recognised the problem of dying engines in past models and replaced it old failing Rover engine to a Hyundai engine, and the new engine seemed to be holding up quite well.

I had the opportunity to drive a work car up to Sydney, staying up there for a week and back again with the Toyota Tarago. This was the base model, 4 cylinder, 3.4L 125kw. The car was quite nice on presentation (except for the mess the last people left in it, and the smell of spilt beer wafting out of every open window). It seemed to have room, decent access to the 3rd row (unlike the Territory) and all the normal goodies I would expect (Decent CD Player, cruise control, power windows). But one huge let down – the engine. Why would you option this with a 4 cylinder car? With 7 people and full luggage (which is what I had), I nearly needed a push from every standing start. But that aside, it maintained its highway speeds well, and didn’t do too bad at overtaking. But I think that the tyres on this vehicle might be an issue. I don’t know if they were load rated tyres, but it looked like they were about to burst off with all the weight we had in it, and this was standing still. Imagine cornering! The other huge let down with this vehicle was the stupid gear lever pattern. Although this vehicle had the tiptronic style +/-, there was no straight up and down to go from P, R, N, D. It was almost like reaching to the back of the cupboard to grab a can of beans and pull it back out without knocking over any wine glasses in-between. It was awful and I got the craps with it so bad I just started ramming it up and down through all of it’s notches till it got in the gear I wanted. To have this one feature alone to deal with every day would be a big pain… even if I mastered it.

So, I had a look at the Chrysler and was pretty much turned off after just looking at it. The design was nothing to write home about, it was a column shift… which isn’t normally an issue, but being a RHD conversion, it meant that you could wind down the drivers window and hang streamers off the shifter and that I didn’t like…. And the biggie… a MASSVIE 128kw 3.3L V6 motor… I wasn’t happy with the performance of the 4cyl Tarago at 125kw, so I wasn’t gonna be happy with this 128kw... and this was a V6 which would chew more fuel.

So back to Kia I went and looked at the Grand Carnival. Wow. What a package. Brand new, at about $12000 less then the base model Tarago, I thought it was going to sacrifice on features and quality, but I was wrong. With power windows all around (even the very rear side windows), 3 zone climate control with air vents in the roof, 11 cup holders, fold up tray on the back of the first row seats, 3rd row seats that fold back into the floor and make a flush flat massive boot space, and power sockets spread throughout the car, fog lights, roof rails, and a retractable 2nd mirror that lets you keep an eye on all the people (or kids) in the car. This is great for me, because I have a baby in a car seat, and it lets me check to see if she is playfully screaming, or really needs something, without me having to turn around. I thought that I could sell my house and live in the car. It has a reclining front driver chair with arm rests… oh wait, this car even has 2 coat hooks, and a take away bag hook. I guess I can! So, how about under the hood… again, I wasn’t expecting much, and I assumed this is where the $12000 savings cut in… wrong again. With a 184kw 3.8L V6 Hyundai engine mated with a 5 speed semi automatic gearbox, this thing was spinning the wheels at the traffic lights… and the car weighs 2 ton! You might think that because the car weighs 2 ton that it might be a fuel guzzler, but it isn’t! And on the highway, it drops into 5th, and is just a pleasant cruiser! But if your still dead set on thinking it’s a fuel guzzler, it does have the 80L fuel tank to get you from Sydney Airport to CBD in peak hour. This car is fitted with load rated tyres on 16” rims with a 6 stud 4WD pattern. And thankfully, it comes with an identical full size spare. Although, this limits my choices of mag wheels down the line, it is peace of mind that the tyres and wheels are gonna hold up to the job. I took this car off road and down a bumpy track, but because of it’s long wheel base, 2 ton body, and decent suspension, it was no where as bumpy as my current Falcon. Well how about the boot space. With the 3rd row folded down, obviously it’s huge, but with the 3rd row in use? Still huge. You now have this huge crater where the seats fold into to use, and then the rest. And if that still isn’t enough, remember those roof racks that come standard? I also tried this make shift house in an underground car park. At 5.1m long, I thought it would be difficult to park, but swing wide, and it’s a breeze. Excellent turning circle! But it’s still a Kia, and they have had a bad reputation in the past… well try this one. This car isn’t actually a Kia. It’s a Hyundai. And I just don’t mean built by them, it is one. It’s a Hyundai Entourage, rebadged as a Kia Grand Carnival. However, Hyundai owns Kia, so it’s really just one big circle.

[cpapashley]

Originally Posted by Carnaval Grande

Ford Territory TS
Ford Territory Turbo
Toyota Tarago
Chrysler Voyager
Kia Carnival
Kia Grand Carnival

.....But it’s still a Kia, and they have had a bad reputation in the past… well try this one. This car isn’t actually a Kia. It’s a Hyundai. And I just don’t mean built by them, it is one. It’s a Hyundai Entourage, rebadged as a Kia Grand Carnival. However, Hyundai owns Kia, so it’s really just one big circle.

Great write up, covers some great aspects. I know for us KIA have ruined there reputation with the abysmal rover based engine debacle, and we will never be back, but I can only affirm what you say here, With Hyundai so much more at the wheel, especially with the new Carnival, it is a must for anyone serious about looking at the people movers to look at this car. I have always been impressed by all the hyundai's I have driven...including the Trajet...we were oh so close to waiting for the trajet....

so here is to a new era for Kia as now rebranded Hyundai's. Maybe in ten years I may have recovered from the $30,000 sting in the pocket Kia left us with, but by then I will no longer need the people mover....

Now I do like the look of the new Hyundai Tiburon....

[Esses]

Have to say I agree with you both. CPA because about 1/2 of the earlier model Carnies were abysmal, Grande because you're very accurate with your review, apart from a few details.
We just traded our '05 Carni. on a new Grand Carni., mainly for the extra space that having a 4th child demands. Wifey loves it, she can now fit: a stroller, backpack, 3 school-bags AND a weeks worth of groceries behind the 3rd row, plus carry 8 people, which often happens after school!
We loved our old Carni, it was just superb from day 1 & apart from very temperamental DVD & CD players (both replaced multiple times under warranty) has not given us a single problem over our 43000 km with it. Most impressive have been the 3 Canberra to Queensland, non-stop, overnight trips it's done. The first when it was just 1 week old & the last just this October. This last one was at 1 weeks notice when my Patrol blew it's radiator the weekend before so I ended up transferring 2 roof-racks, checking the fluids, put air in the tyres, packed 6 people & 2 weeks luggage in & on it & off we went. Didn't miss a beat, performed like there wasn't the biggest load we'd ever put on it & only dropped 2 mpg overall with the roof-racks full. Trading her in was a very hard decision. I would recommend our Carni. to anyone but add 2 provisos: 1/ buy a late '04 or an '05 only. 2/ Get a manual. Ours was great, well matched to the revvy little V6. The autos are slugs.

The new Grand is magnificent. Space galore, performance to burn, standard features (Cruise, ABS, 5-sp Auto etc) everywhere & is even quieter & smoother than the old one. We just did our first fill: 19.3 mpg, on an engine that had 14km on it at pickup & 230 at fill. Very impressive as the '05 averaged about 21 mpg.

Grande, for the record, our Grand Carnies DON'T have a full-size spare - that's the old model. All new Carnies have a "Space-Saver".
Until the new '06 SWB Carni came out, they ALL had the Rover-based KV6 2.5 litre V6 engine. Difference is that with the '04 model they introduced the "Gen II" version which MOSTLY cured the cylinder liner/head-gasket issues of the past. Some '04s & the rare '05 still spit their dummy. 2 Kia KV6s went through my depot last wek heading for an engine rebuilder.
The new SWB Carni has the engine/transmission from the old Hyundai Trajet - the 2.7 litre V6 that's been around for yonks & also powers the Hyundai Tucson, Santa Fe, Tiburon & the Kia Sportage, Optima & Magentis.
BTW, the engine on our GC has Hyundai AND Kia logos stamped on it: "Hyundai/Kia". One big, happy family.

[cpapashley]

Originally Posted by Esses

Have to say I agree with you both. CPA because about 1/2 of the earlier model Carnies were abysmal, Grande because you're very accurate with your review, apart from a few details.
We just traded our '05 Carni. on a new Grand Carni., mainly for the extra space that having a 4th child demands. Wifey loves it, she can now fit: a stroller, backpack, 3 school-bags AND a weeks worth of groceries behind the 3rd row, plus carry 8 people, which often happens after school!
We loved our old Carni, it was just superb from day 1 & apart from very temperamental DVD & CD players (both replaced multiple times under warranty) has not given us a single problem over our 43000 km with it. Most impressive have been the 3 Canberra to Queensland, non-stop, overnight trips it's done. The first when it was just 1 week old & the last just this October. This last one was at 1 weeks notice when my Patrol blew it's radiator the weekend before so I ended up transferring 2 roof-racks, checking the fluids, put air in the tyres, packed 6 people & 2 weeks luggage in & on it & off we went. Didn't miss a beat, performed like there wasn't the biggest load we'd ever put on it & only dropped 2 mpg overall with the roof-racks full. Trading her in was a very hard decision. I would recommend our Carni. to anyone but add 2 provisos: 1/ buy a late '04 or an '05 only. 2/ Get a manual. Ours was great, well matched to the revvy little V6. The autos are slugs.

The new Grand is magnificent. Space galore, performance to burn, standard features (Cruise, ABS, 5-sp Auto etc) everywhere & is even quieter & smoother than the old one. We just did our first fill: 19.3 mpg, on an engine that had 14km on it at pickup & 230 at fill. Very impressive as the '05 averaged about 21 mpg.

Grande, for the record, our Grand Carnies DON'T have a full-size spare - that's the old model. All new Carnies have a "Space-Saver".
Until the new '06 SWB Carni came out, they ALL had the Rover-based KV6 2.5 litre V6 engine. Difference is that with the '04 model they introduced the "Gen II" version which MOSTLY cured the cylinder liner/head-gasket issues of the past. Some '04s & the rare '05 still spit their dummy. 2 Kia KV6s went through my depot last wek heading for an engine rebuilder.
The new SWB Carni has the engine/transmission from the old Hyundai Trajet - the 2.7 litre V6 that's been around for yonks & also powers the Hyundai Tucson, Santa Fe, Tiburon & the Kia Sportage, Optima & Magentis.
BTW, the engine on our GC has Hyundai AND Kia logos stamped on it: "Hyundai/Kia". One big, happy family.

Congrats on the big grande Esses. Hope all the family enjoy that biiiigggg people mover...

[Carnaval Grande]

Yeah, I realised it had a space saver spare not long after I got it. Both reviews I read and the dealer said it had a full... Oh well. Yeah, the new engine is the Hyundai LAMBDA engine. Used also in the Ganduer (sp?).