Warranty. Getting headliner,maplight replacement authorized due to water leaks. - Kia Forum
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#1 (permalink) Old 06-10-2012, 05:52 PM
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Default Warranty. Getting headliner,maplight replacement authorized due to water leaks.

2007 *Kia Sedona w sunroof.
3rd generation (2006>2012)
Bought NEW.
Approaching 5/60 warranty end date.
Past 4yrs same dealer doing service.
47k Miles
Customer-My 80yr old father
Mfg date= 2006-03
Sell date= 2007-07

(Car early production unit. Add insult to injury in possession of mfg network, associated dealers over a year! -this meaning it was probably transferred from dealer to dealer several times.)
Selling dealer, mfg denies installing a "Sunroof" air deflector "servicing" dealer "blamed" for causing water leak(s).

SHORT VERSION:

Headliner has been stained (damaged) from water intrusion.
Local dealer has been giving my 80yr old father the run-around- blaming water (leaks) coming in from pre-retail sale sunroof air deflector (As shown in accessory brochure and shown on website as a "approved" accessory)

Dealer removed the air deflector- car still leaks.

Water dripping from maplight /overhead console trip computer assembly into car when it rains.
Headliner damaged (Water stains) Left and Right side -towards front indicating front drains not sized, positioned correctly, drip pan not engineered to take into account parking on slightly uneven ground. (EG: The real world)
(NOTE: 80yr old people as a rule don't park on steep inclines.)
Water in R.F floorboard. (As a clogged A/C drain, windshield leak would do)
2009-10 Windshield replaced. Windshield broken by dealer while in their possession, replaced by 3rd party glass shop.
(Problem started before that date- this said)

Want:
1: Leak(s) fixed (duh), Headliner damaged by water leaks (Stained) replaced., carpet /carpet underlayment and any electrical components water damaged replaced.
2: Mfg to bear costs of repair (honor mfg warranty) as the problem is not caused by customer abuse, (EG: Parking under trees causing drains to clog, physical damage, etc.) problem should be mfg's. Sunroof over a 5yr period only opened about 20 times, so it's not a case something is worn-out.

Flowchart:
1: Fix the water leak(s)
2: Verify leaks are fixed.
3: Replace any parts damaged by water leak(s).
(Headliner /electrical components, etc)

Planning on picking up the car in the next day or so...
You may say "Try another dealership" As this is the dealership they purchased car #2 and they've done all the service for the past 4+ years I would think they, instead of another dealer would "go the extra mile" to address these problems.

What really is sad is them after being told once warranty expires they will be shortly purchasing some new vehicles, not realizing that a little expenditure of effort now will result in many thousands of dollars profit from the sale of the new vehicles, money from trade in, money that they will make from future servicing.
(From what I've read on the net- this is a common attitude with dealership personnel)

NEED some advise on who to contact, info on getting the mfg / factory rep to man-up.

(First choice would be the owner of the dealership I would think.)


Really unimpressed with the dealership (Nothing is ever noted on the ticket that the "tech" found a problem and corrected... It's always the "customer' has to notice a problem and report it.

***************************************
***************************************

Last edited by WeAreNotAlone; 06-11-2012 at 12:33 AM.
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#2 (permalink) Old 06-10-2012, 10:12 PM
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Default Long version of water leaking into car

LONG VERSION- the details:

Water leaking into car...

Water dripping from maplight /overhead console trip computer assembly.
Headliner damaged (Water stains) Left and Right side -towards front
Water in R.F floorboard. (As a clogged A/C drain , windshield leak would do)
2009-10 Windshield replaced. Windshield broken by dealer while in their possession, replaced by 3rd party glass shop.

Usage:
Sunroof always keep closed. Customer parks in garage 90% of time. NO trees near outside parking spot that might drop debris /clog drains.
(Customer has maybe opened the sunroof 20 times in the past 5 yrs. (LOL) The ONLY time it gets opened is if I'm in the car on a nice day.)

2009-06 @24,000 miles Water leak first documented.
As a aside -Customer moved from NE down south where it rains more- so issue was probably there but not documented.
To be far to dealer on time frame involved (3ryrs) customer parking in garage 90% of time makes time between reports longer than if customer didn't have a garage to park in.

Ticket states:
Customer reports: Water is leaking in on right front floorboard when raining.
Service manager states: Water not draining from sun roof visor. Advised customer not to park facing downhill.

(Proper thing to do would be if air deflector causing leak:
A: Cut slots with a die grinder lower front edges - to allow water to drain.(10 -15 mins)
OR

B: Remove air deflector. (3mins)

Note: Air deflector on car prior to retail purchase, customer not aware it wasn't factory. Same deflector shown on mfg site as a "approved" accessory and most likely in 2007 hard copy of brochure.)

2009-11 @29,000 miles
Ticket states:
Water is leaking in from around map light console area when raining.
Caused by improper sealing of windshield. Reseal windshield. sublet to Affordable Glass shop

(NOTE: They broke the windshield...No mention of that on the ticket)

2010-08 @35,000 miles
Ticket states:
Remove visor due to water leaking in heavy rain.

2010-11 @37,000 miles
Ticket states:

Customer reports: Water is leaking in from the map light Assembly when raining.
Rep states: "No problem found".


2012-05-24 @ 47,000 miles.

Car dropped off for multiple issues as car is approaching end of warranty.

1: Clunking in front end= dealer replaced (2), not all of the subframe bushings.. Previously they had released car after performing TSB which references (over) tightening strut insulator nuts....
2: Car was dropped off with WATER in right front passenger floorboard.
3: Headliner stained= requesting it be replaced
4: Campaign on rear door latch assemblies not done (found out by calling some other dealers of outstanding campaign... "servicing" dealer said everything up to date- no campaigns showing (LOL)
5: Intermittent = Electronically controlled doors malfunctioning. Requesting relays/control modules be replaced with superseded part(s).
6: Power steering hose leaking.
7: Oil leak L.F head valve cover.
8: Intermittent Battery drain (new battery)

*We have (2) of these vehicles- other was "released' from a service the other day..
Tech did not pick up on A/C compressor knocking noise (TSB on that)
Gear noise Right Front window.
Shimmy @ 73mph +/- hwy speed-constant rate of speed. (This being a ongoing issue since 2008!!!, Dealer installed tires. Dealer actually putting on ticket it's normal for the car to "shimmy" at hwy speeds!
(Received car back with note on ticket about the shimmy:
"Customer denied turning front brake rotors".
(Brake rotors new 12k ago-)

2012-06-09 Called to check status:

Told car ready for pickup

"No Problem Found" (on water leak(s)
When asking about if headliner would be replaced told by service writer he had heard service manager supposedly talking with mfg rep, rep denying headliner be replaced.


In my mind (being a tech myself)
1: Fix the water leak.
2: Replace any parts damaged by water leak.
(Headliner /electrical components, etc)

Upon calling them 2012 06-08- was informed car was "ready"..
"No Problem found"

NO PROBLEM FOUND- when the carpet was saturated with water when I dropped the car off?

Headliner stained?




.

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#3 (permalink) Old 06-11-2012, 12:01 AM
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Default How much it will cost once out of warranty to replace headliner.

To give you guys a idea how much a headliner costs once out of warranty...

JUST for the PARTS:

Headliner W/LONG WHEELBASE, w/sunroof, gray
PARTS: Order by application.
MSRP Core ? Online Price
$949.95
$0.00 $759.96

Trip computer
Computer
PARTS: Part included with overhead console.
MSRP Core ? Online Price
$372.87
$0.00 $298.30

Trip computer, map light complete:
overhead console w/trip computer, gray
PARTS: Order by application.
MSRP Core ? Online Price
$454.70
$0.00 $363.76


NOTE: Your friendly local dealer isn't probably going to give you the online price...

*Beige is around 5% cheaper.
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#4 (permalink) Old 06-16-2012, 01:04 PM
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There are drains in the sunroof tray, they are probably clogged.
Open the sunroof and with a small glass of water and the van on level ground pour the water in the tray.
Watch where it goes.
The drain will be in one of the front corners, if full of debris the water will not drain and overflow into the ceiling.
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#5 (permalink) Old 06-18-2012, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike555 View Post
There are drains in the sunroof tray, they are probably clogged.
Open the sunroof and with a small glass of water and the van on level ground pour the water in the tray.
Watch where it goes.
The drain will be in one of the front corners, if full of debris the water will not drain and overflow into the ceiling.

Normally sunroof drain problems are caused by debris from parking under trees with sunroof in open postion.

Car bought NEW.
Parked in garage 95%+ of time.
Sunroof opened maybe 20 times in 5yrs.
Car never left "parked" with sunroof in open position that would allow debris entry.

Dealer has supposedly checked drains.
Dealer blaming OEM sunroof air deflector as shown in Kia Sedona brochure /website and other printed material for causing the sunroof to leak.

Q: Don't have the part number handy right now but the air deflector fitment chart shows it fitting 2006 > 2012 Sedona (Plus several other models)

If they were "having a problem" with this item, Kia would issue a TSB stating from vin number/ production date range date xyz to zyx to remove a discard /replace with superseded part number.

I don't see any TSB's that state such...

So I think it's a case of "pinched", or "kinked" sunroof tubes.
One contact I talked at @KIA said that during the drain pan install process drain tubes were sized too long (or had been positioned incorrectly)... when mated they would kink restricting the flow.

The sunroof air deflector being blamed by dealer as cause of leak is I think a indicator of the tubes being restricted /kinked.



.
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#6 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 12:15 PM
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Default Simple fix for leaky sunroof 2007 Sedona EX

I am sorry, I don't have an easy answer for getting the mfgr. to take responsibility for this fix. I had a similar story.

Early production 2007 Sedona EX. Leaky sunroof (I used to live in wet climate 50+ inches of rain yearly). Rainwater leaked from "map lights," trip computer, and pooled on passenger side carpeting. Stained headliner.

Dealer Service Writer said: Let us take it all apart. If not your fault due to debris clogged drain tubes, then mfgr. may decide to pay half. (Maybe Half?!)

I said to dealer: There is no way that I would ever write a dealer a blank check for $2,000+. So after a few frustrating visits, I never went back to the dealer on this issue.

Getting the dealer/mfgr. to pay would be possibly a risky court battle and time consuming. You have to assess that in your own jurisdiction. Also depends on strength of your local "small claims courts," if you have them. You may need expert to provide evidence: often hard to obtain.

My solution: I carefully (I mean carefully) removed the left and right black ABS trim pieces from the sunroof (from inside the vehicle, of course). Then I removed the sunroof completely by removing the screws that hold it to the brackets, and thoroughly cleaned the channels all the way around. I reinstalled the sunroof, leaving the screws slightly loose. I used a drop of threadlock on each screw.

I adjusted the sunroof upward as far as it would go, then backed it off very slightly. Then I retightened the screws, and checked for the proper functioning of the sunroof. It worked O.K. (and still works fine years later).

Then I ran a hose (buckets of water, etc.) over the closed sunroof - no leaks - no pooling of water. That was years ago, and sunroof has never leaked again. Also, I am careful to make sure that it is completely closed before carwashing, impending rainstorms, etc.

I realize this is not the answer you were looking for - but it is apparently the same problem that your father's Sedona has. I hope that it helps.
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#7 (permalink) Old 06-25-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavisMark View Post
I am sorry, I don't have an easy answer for getting the mfgr. to take responsibility for this fix. I had a similar story.

Early production 2007 Sedona EX. Leaky sunroof (I used to live in wet climate 50+ inches of rain yearly). Rainwater leaked from "map lights," trip computer, and pooled on passenger side carpeting. Stained headliner.

Dealer Service Writer said: Let us take it all apart. If not your fault due to debris clogged drain tubes, then mfgr. may decide to pay half. (Maybe Half?!)

I said to dealer: There is no way that I would ever write a dealer a blank check for $2,000+. So after a few frustrating visits, I never went back to the dealer on this issue.

Getting the dealer/mfgr. to pay would be possibly a risky court battle and time consuming. You have to assess that in your own jurisdiction. Also depends on strength of your local "small claims courts," if you have them. You may need expert to provide evidence: often hard to obtain.

My solution: I carefully (I mean carefully) removed the left and right black ABS trim pieces from the sunroof (from inside the vehicle, of course). Then I removed the sunroof completely by removing the screws that hold it to the brackets, and thoroughly cleaned the channels all the way around. I reinstalled the sunroof, leaving the screws slightly loose. I used a drop of threadlock on each screw.

I adjusted the sunroof upward as far as it would go, then backed it off very slightly. Then I retightened the screws, and checked for the proper functioning of the sunroof. It worked O.K. (and still works fine years later).

Then I ran a hose (buckets of water, etc.) over the closed sunroof - no leaks - no pooling of water. That was years ago, and sunroof has never leaked again. Also, I am careful to make sure that it is completely closed before carwashing, impending rainstorms, etc.

I realize this is not the answer you were looking for - but it is apparently the same problem that your father's Sedona has. I hope that it helps.
Wow, So if drains weren't clogged by debris...they implied that you'd have to pay 50% on the repair- while car was in warranty?

Thanks for the info- any and all info is appreciated!

Sounds like in your car a simple panel adjustment /drain channel cleaning was all that was needed.

Makes you wonder about the dealers "techs" missing such...

(I'm not impressed with the quality of service I've been witnessing over the past two months, two separate dealers.)

Currently have both vehicles- at two separate dealers...

One there a month... the other 3+ weeks.

Vehicle 1= No loaner car
Vehicle 2 =Loaner car provided.

Vehicle 1 (Mothers car) Status:
Ticket opened: 2012-5-28
Clunk-front end. Tech could not find clunking noise in front end.
Ordered A/C Compressor clutch hub as per TSB (Knocking noise)

2012-06-05- Dropped off car.
(A/C hub in.)
Had tech do a ride-a-long (which should have been done the 28th) for clunking noise in front end over minor pavement variations. Tech hears noise /confirms.

2012-06-20
Call to check status-Service writer says it's ready (but it's not), says she was "just" getting ready to call me..

Father/mother drive 45miles, we meet at my house, drive another 15 miles to dealer.
Before signing off on ticket road test car-following issues noticed:

1: Idler noise- most noticeable when A/C compressor cycles OFF. (Car was in for TSB on replacing A/C Clutch- I'm thinking maybe the "tech" rolled the belt on, pried against idler..)
2: Pulls to left (They replaced (1) strut, car had clunking sound over minor pavement variations.)
3: Clunking noise now replaced by squeaking noise
4: *Wind noise RF window (They had replaced window regulator)

*Wind noise= I did not have someone to drive car so I could ascertain were noise was coming from.

******

Vehicle 2 Status - Been at dealer since 2012-05-24

Told ready- 60miles to dealer.

(About 7 things on ticket)

Upon arrival:

Was going to road test before signing off on ticket...

1: Month old battery totally DEAD (Thanks guys!)
(Tech left dome light switch on.)
2: After several conversations on the sunroof issue...
They state no water leaks. I say great, now it's time to restore customers car to "pre-leak state".

I get:
Factory rep isn't going to authorize a headliner replacement run-around.
Service manager talks about "cleaning" the headliner.

About a week later receive word they have "ordered a headliner", it will be replaced N/C.



Headliner comes in... it's the wrong one..
(No cut out for sunroof).. 50/50 chance and they screwed that up....
(50/50 chance on it being the wrong color next go around.)

Dealer states- they are having to order direct from Korea as they are NO headliners in stock in the US.
Dealer states (verbally)- headliner will be installed @N/C once it comes in.

(Concerned about "verbal" agreements as the 5yr/60k Warranty on car expires 2012-06-07)

3: Clunking /noise in front end STILL there.
(They had replaced (2) Front sub-frame bushings... of (4) total.
A month or so before that they had done a TSB in which you over-torque the front stut insulators (Strut mounts).
TSB references if strut noise still there- to replace struts.


Ask if they did sub-frame bushings on car, told no- they pulled entire sub-frame off... only replacing the 2 front bushings.
(I bet the others go bad shortly.)


.

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