Kia-Forums.com is owned and operated by AutoForums.com, Inc. Kia-Forums.com is an ehthusiast website dedicated to the discussion of Kia Vehicles, Kia Family Cars and Kia SUVs. Kia-Forums.com is completely unofficial and is not endorsed in any way by KIA Motor Corp, its affiliates, or its subsidiaries. KIAź is a registered trademark of KIA Motors Corp. in Canada, the United States, and in other countries around the world. No challenge to the status of KIAź's registered trademarks is intended.
Goggles Pizano, thank you very much for your reply. You technical feedback is very much appreciated!
Mine pulls constantly. It does matter if is under acceleration, deceleration, or idle. I do have the spec sheets from the dealer this last Tuesday.
I don't have a scanner but I will work to get them scanned to post here. The BEFORE spec sheet shows that the caster is within spec but a road test showed the that Rondo still exhibited the pull.
They put it back in the shop and modified the bolt hole where the strut is connected to the steering knuckle to allow for a slight caster adjustment. They then adjusted the right wheel's caster to bring it to -1.71%, which is -0.22% out of spec to counter the pull that the Rondo was exhibiting. Before they adjusted it; it was 0.86% and was within spec. Even if this does fix the pull, which I don't think it has, it will likely cause uneven tire wear in the future.
They road tested and concluded that the Rondo was no longer pulling, however; I do detect a pull still there when I am driving it, although it is seems a bit better. The Kia Regional Rep drove it 60kms from the dealer back to me and felt it was fixed.
When the car is pulling you can feel it in the steering wheel and if you let go of the wheel the wheel will move slightly right and the car will pull to the right. As you correctly pointed out, if the vehicle is within spec and the car still pulls, then something else is wrong as Isu also alluded to in a previous post.
Radial drift has been ruled out on my Rondo since we have tested the vehicle with both the OEM all seasons and the brand new Michelin winter tires and tried rotation before that.
I am to the point that I am considering selling this Rondo and buying a Toyota Matrix if I don't take too much of a bath on it.
I am glad this post is affecting purchasing decisions because Kia needs to fix this problem and fix it fast. If they are paying attention and now know this forum is influencing purchase decisions maybe they will move a little faster.
5 months of ownership and 12,000kms driven. I wish they would offer to replace my Rondo, but if this goes on much longer it will be requested by my lawyer.
What will be cheaper, trading 'the problem' in on a Matrix or suing to have my Rondo purchased back?
Oddly enough I dropped my Santa Fe off at the local Toyota dealership for a complimentary motor vehicle inspection and was taking a hard look at the 2009 Toyota Matrix.
Narvo - did you ever consider contacting KIA Motors direct Welcome to Kia Motors
(click on Contact at the top right (next to KIA GLOBAL NETWORK), then click on "After Sales Service" on the next screen then "Contact Us" and fill out the details)
they say on this site: "In order to provide optimum service, we are eager to listen to your concerns. When Kia distributors in your country or the dealership near you are not able to solve your vehicle's problem for any reason, please contact us directly using the the e-mail shown below. Your comments are very important to us."
and you provide all the details on your vehicle and you can post your complaint and request.
Sounds like an avenue to pursue if you haven't already done it, if you have what was there response?
What every route you decide to go, I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.
.................................................. .......................
Have you seen the new 2009 Matrix, its a far cry from the old one! I was hoping they would have had the new model out at the time I was looking to purchase, one of the reasons I was holding off till 2008, but now having seen the new model, it would have been struck off my list anyway, the rear storage area is not as good as before and my wife wasn't impressed with that model.
__________________ Mileage: 21,200 km (13,200 miles), Ownership: 13 months
Last edited by conwelpic : 04-03-2008 at 10:52 AM.
Conwelpic, I have not tried that yet and I was not aware of it, thanks. I haven't went any further because after contacting Kia Canada I was just merely told to return to the dealership. When I wrote back I was told that the Regional Rep would be in contact with me and he was and has been working with me but the issue is on going. I will consider contacting Kia Motors.
I have been keeping the Rep informed as much as possible. This has because a hugh nightmare.
I did notice that the 2009 Matrix had a small cargo area but that's not a huge concern for me. After I turn in my Santa Fe this fall I will probably looking at getting a mid size pick up. That will be that cargo hauler for me. The Matrix is still big enough for our dog, although we will lose the 6th & 7th passenger capability, again not a huge deal.
If they have in fact fixed the pull by adjusting the caster to attain the difference required between sides (usually 1/2 to 1 degree), then I wouldn't have a problem with keeping the vehicle. You would be surprised how much of this type of "adjusting" goes on. We used to grind out holes and aftermarket tool manufacturers actually make add ons to fix these kinds of problems. I've seen where a fix is to put a smaller diameter bolt in the upper bolt hole of the strut-to-spindle mount to get the adjustment necessary, and then they supply a wedge as well to put between the spindle and strut to keep things from changing. It is very common now-a-days for the manufacturers to make vehicles with no adjustments for caster/camber.
I think one of the biggest downfalls that you (and most of the others here having problems) have been running into is inexperienced front end guys. The specs produced by Auto Manufacturers are what we like to call guidelines. In fact, a lot of the time, we wouldn't even follow them. If I set all front ends to what the factory wants for toe, they would be back in a month with bald tires. These specs give you the best "overall" driving experience, but every vehicle is different and has to be treated as such.
Also, caster doesn't/won't cause tire wear. Tire wear is caused by toe and hard cornering, and secondly camber (and only if it is VERY excessive). Some Toyota's run 2 degrees Camber. If you ran that on an older chev, it would destroy the tires. So, each front end is different depending on design.
If you have the specs of the before, you could even just type them in here. The ones I am interested in is the left and right Caster and camber.
BTW.... we used to adjust Ford trucks by BENDING the front I-beams. LOL! And this was a factory solution...
I don't have the sheets with me right now but I will post the specs sometime this evening. I do have the spec for all four tires and all three specs.
I like your tie rod type solution and I may recommend this.
I am not sure of the qualifications of the techs at the dealer but I don't thing any of them are front end alignment specialists but general licensed mechanics.
It's really hard to come to grips that the vehicle can be within spec but still pull. Common sense would tell me that something else is wrong like maybe a 'power steering' pull.
I don't have the sheets with me right now but I will post the specs sometime this evening. I do have the spec for all four tires and all three specs.
I like your tie rod type solution and I may recommend this.
I am not sure of the qualifications of the techs at the dealer but I don't thing any of them are front end alignment specialists but general licensed mechanics.
It's really hard to come to grips that the vehicle can be within spec but still pull. Common sense would tell me that something else is wrong like maybe a 'power steering' pull.
Thank you very much for your feedback.
Narvo; You are welcome! I only hope I can bring some info that will help all. I can see alot of you are frustrated with this, and it makes me frustrated too when I can see you aren't getting any answers. LOL!
As well, further to the vehicle "fallling within specs but still pulling".... if the inexperienced general mechanic type guy puts the vehicle on the rack and scans in the specs for the Rondo, and he sees all realtime settings falling within the green area, he will say "Everything is within specs". BUT (and this a BIG factor!) he may not realise that all vehicles require a difference of at least half a degree in Caster from side to side. It should be at least 1/2 degree higher on the right side to compensate for road crown. So, if your Rondo had a spec of say, 0 degrees min caster and 2 degrees max caster, that gives a leeway of 2 degrees to play in. Now, lets say the left wheel was at 1 1/2 degrees and the right wheel was at 1/2 a degree. You are still "within spec", but you will have a wicked pull to the right. If they adjust it so that the two were opposite, that pull would be gone (and might even pull left depending on road crown). So, as you can see, everything is in spec, but it is still wrong.
So, if your Rondo had a spec of say, 0 degrees min caster and 2 degrees max caster, that gives a leeway of 2 degrees to play in. Now, lets say the left wheel was at 1 1/2 degrees and the right wheel was at 1/2 a degree. You are still "within spec", but you will have a wicked pull to the right. If they adjust it so that the two were opposite, that pull would be gone (and might even pull left depending on road crown). So, as you can see, everything is in spec, but it is still wrong.
I am going from memory but I think I remember the min caster was 0 and max was 1.5. They adjusted the right wheel to 1.71 which is outside of the acceptable tolerance. I don't recall what the left wheel was at. Will update this evening and I look forward to you analyzing the data.
I am going from memory but I think I remember the min caster was 0 and max was 1.5. They adjusted the right wheel to 1.71 which is outside of the acceptable tolerance. I don't recall what the left wheel was at. Will update this evening and I look forward to you analyzing the data.
Goggles Pizano - was reading your technical feedback with interest, I'm not very technical myself when it comes to vehicles, but I was just curious as to what your reaction is regarding the fact that all these pulling problems appear to be just for owners of V6's and not the I4.
I have the I4, and my vehicle tracks beautiful and handles great, absolutely no complaints in that area.
__________________ Mileage: 21,200 km (13,200 miles), Ownership: 13 months
Goggles Pizano - was reading your technical feedback with interest, I'm not very technical myself when it comes to vehicles, but I was just curious as to what your reaction is regarding the fact that all these pulling problems appear to be just for owners of V6's and not the I4.
I have the I4, and my vehicle tracks beautiful and handles great, absolutely no complaints in that area.
This is what I'm finding in my area too. This is also partially why I'm biased the I4.
Linear Mode
