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#1 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 06:19 PM
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Default Air Intake- Cool or Hot Air?

Was thinking of trying to make my factory air intake a little more efficient if that's possible. My question is would it be more efficient if I was to bring in more cool or hot air? Thanks!
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#2 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 06:28 PM
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Was thinking of trying to make my factory air intake a little more efficient if that's possible. My question is would it be more efficient if I was to bring in more cool or hot air? Thanks!
Interesting question, and I think that there's a clear distinction between performance and efficiency with regards this.

On large power plant coal fired boilers they draw hot air from the upper area of the boiler house enclosures, rather than take cool ambient air from outside.

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#3 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 11:58 PM
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Have been doing some reading up on this and the conclusion is there are pro's and con's to both setups. Maybe the thing to do is keep as is.
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#4 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 09:44 AM
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I have used both. Not on this specific car but. I will say that either way, there is not going to be a huge difference.
An intake only adds more, when other things are opened up like exhaust, manifold work ect.

My short ram (not hot air) seems to work good. I first installed it and did notice a 1-2mpg gain. After the maf mod, I have been continually been seeing a 27-29mpg on my 4 cyl. That is up from around 23-25 from before.

Im not after power, im after fuel efficency. Intakes really have minimal gains in the hp department.

What are the cons? I have never seen one from an intake. The biggest con with a cai would be modifying it to fit, cutting a hold in fender for filter to fit down in.

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#5 (permalink) Old 06-24-2011, 05:05 PM
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Cold air is more dense. It has more molecules of oxygen for the same given volume as that of warm air. More oxygen needs more fuel. That's why typically you see your fuel economy nosedive in the winter time. But, you'll also get more power out of a colder, denser air charge.

There is a point where the air can be too hot though. You start getting into issues of detonation and the spark timing will be retarded to correct it. When that happens, you lose both power and fuel economy. there are a few forums out there like gassavers where they do a lot of this stuff and you can get a better idea of an ideal intake temperature.
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#6 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ron1004 View Post
Interesting question, and I think that there's a clear distinction between performance and efficiency with regards this.

On large power plant coal fired boilers they draw hot air from the upper area of the boiler house enclosures, rather than take cool ambient air from outside.
BOILERS, let see, they make heat, so they would want to start with hot air. Why heat cold air, when if its already warm its more efficient.

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#7 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 05:58 AM
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BOILERS, let see, they make heat, so they would want to start with hot air. Why heat cold air, when if its already warm its more efficient.
Good observation, and in line with the point I was making.

Boilers make steam, and heat/combustion is part of that cycle, just like heat/combustion is also a part of the cycle in the case of cars.


Air preheater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An air preheater (APH) is a general term to describe any device designed to heat air before another process (for example, combustion in a boiler) with the primary objective of increasing the thermal efficiency of the process. They may be used alone or to replace a recuperative heat system or to replace a steam coil.


Ljungström® Air Preheaters

The Ljungström® Regenerative Air Preheater is more widely used than any other type of heat exchanger for comparable service in the steam generating industry. The reasons for this worldwide acceptance are its high thermal effectiveness, proven performance and reliability, effective leakage control, compactness of its design, and its adaptability to most any fuel burning process. It is both designed and built to operate over extended periods with durable, uninterrupted service. Simplicity of the design also makes it easy and economical to maintain in operation and at scheduled outages.

Available in a broad range of sizes, arrangements, and materials, Ljungström® Regenerative Air Preheaters are custom engineered to meet the specific requirements and operating conditions of a variety of applications including:

Electrical Power Generating Plants

Fluidized Bed Boilers

Package and large industrial boilers

Hydrocarbon and chemical
processes

Waste incinerators and drying systems

Flue gas and other reheating systems

File:Steam Generator.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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#8 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 01:46 PM
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Boilers don't make heat. They make steam using heat(heat from any fuel source). Any heat loss is wasted fuel to make that heat that was lost. So, any unused heat(chimney) is used to preheat the water, air, and fuel that is entering the boiler. The goal is to get as much steam out of the boiler and every BTU counts.

We should not compare a steam boiler to a gasoline powered piston engine.

The biggest problem we have with air intake temperature is that we have no method for adjusting timing and A/F ratio to optimize for whatever the air temp is. We have limitations with the typically 'safe' and 'clean' OE programming. I would do anything for more 'timing' in order to use cooler denser air, and a little more or less fuel depending on the situation that makes the most power, or the most efficiency, as needed.

The real question is whether your MPG and/or power increase if simply from removing the air box and its associated convoluted plumbing, and not really if its from the cold/hot air difference.

Now, 1fastkia, you need to try to get rid of that accordion tubing with a nice smooth elbow-tube. Also, I would think that you could also use a bigger filter since that cone you're using just doesn't look like it has enough surface area for adequate flow and filtration.
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#9 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 02:38 AM
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Yes if I can get one made, or even modify one to fit that will work. The rubber hose is just there till I think something up. Dont have much time to fiddle with it now.

The filter is little, but not to far from actual surface " over stock drop in. The pic is a bit deceptive.

To the boiler, I was gonna ask why we are compairing it, but didnt want to even say that kind of thing to him.

Not just a different world than a car, a whole different universe.

Thats like compairing an apple to a pineapple.

I am not even going to look at the links to boilers. All I know about them is my furnace is a steam boiler. Yes its ancient, but heats this big house when its 25 below, no issues. This is a car site, boilers is nothing I need to know.

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#10 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 07:39 AM
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Exclamation You're right, and very often the pro's are more to do with placebo effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadart View Post
Have been doing some reading up on this and the conclusion is there are pro's and con's to both setups. Maybe the thing to do is keep as is.
You're right, and very often the pro's are more to do with placebo effect.

Here's an interesting comment on this:
Testing a warm air intake (WAI) - MetroMPG.com
Quote:
Anyone with a passing interest in engine performance is probably familiar with the concept of the cold air intake (CAI), where the goal is to feed the coolest possible air into the engine. Since cooler air is denser (contains more oxygen by volume), a modern engine will compensate by injecting more fuel into the mix to retain a proper air/fuel mixture. The result is more power at a given throttle opening (relative to warmer air).

The idea behind a warm air intake (WAI) is based on the same underlying principles, but its goal is 180 degrees in the other direction: heating the intake air and decreasing its density to reduce power and boost the engine's overall efficiency.

http://cfbcvizela.org/intake/are-col...-your-car.html

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Last edited by ron1004; 06-26-2011 at 07:59 AM.
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