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Engine Valve Timing Interference - Confirmed NON-INTERFERENCE engine

93K views 56 replies 21 participants last post by  702Johnny 
#1 ·
There has been a number of times on this site where there has been arguments and questions over whether the T8D engine in the sephias and spectras are interference or non-interference. i was asked, in the last argument, to prove that i was right on this subject and if i couldn't prove it then i basically didn't know what i was talking about. today i was browsing around on our GDS at the dealership on some info on a sportage i'm working on and i ran across an article in the tech times section from 2005 that basically proved me right. feel free to look it up for yourself and read it on kiatechinfo.com if you still need proof that this is direct from KMA/Kia Motors Corp.

No. KT20050302142
Language English
Published 3/2/2005
Area N. America
Model All Model(all)
Gr./Sys./Comp Engine Mechanical System / Timing System / Timing Belt

DTC
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0301 - Cylinder 1-Misfire detected
P0302 - Cylinder 2-Misfire detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3-Misfire detected
P0304 - Cylinder 4-Misfire detected
P0305 - Cylinder 5-Misfire detected
P0306 - Cylinder 6-Misfire detected

Symptom
EN1000 - Hard/No start
EN4000 - engine stalls
EN5000 - poor engine power/acceleration
EN7000 - back-fire/knocking
EN8000 - improper exhaust gas
EN9000 - MIL ON (Malfunction Indicator Lamp)
ENN001 - Noise
ENN002 - Vibration
ENN003 - Others
Subject Engine Valve Timing Interference.

Description
Tech Line tells us they get a fair amount of calls asking about valve/piston interference on our engines. The Sportage and Sephia/Spectra are the only "freewheeling engines." The valves do not interfere with the pistons if the timing belt fails. All other Kia engines are "interference engines.” The valves may interfere with the pistons if valve timing is off.

Keep in mind this article only applies to the 1995-2002 Sportage, 1994-2001 Sephia, and the 2000-2004 Spectra.
 
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#2 ·
Confirmed NON-INTERFERENCE engine

Good find.

It sure has been debated at length here, but until now no one has found a reliable source confirming that these are NON-INTERFERENCE engines.
 
#6 ·
to prove more of a point, i drove my car until the timing belt broke. it just recently broke a couple weeks ago. 165,000 miles on the orginal timing belt. keep in mind i was taking off from a stop light and i have a lead foot so the rpms were between 5K-6K when it broke. i had a fellow kia tech/buddy of mine tow it to the dealership i work at on his trailer, and i put the new timing belt on in just a little over an hour as well as a new water pump and drive belts. once i got the engine back together, it started and ran perfect on the first try. the belt was missing 19 teeth and was lucky that it wasn't missing more. all of the teeth that were left were severely cracked so if the engine would have kept going, the belt would have been completely toothless. non-interference :)
 
#7 ·
Wish i saw this two months ago. I was paranoid about the timing belt snapping and killing my engine, so my buddy and i spent 14 hours (we're a couple of 18 year old bastards lol) replacing it, along with the water pump. I went through a freak out after i accidentally spun the cam gears while fiddling around. I was convinced i destroyed the valves. Plus, a waste of a day and 80 bucks for new belt/water pump :/
 
#8 ·
Well, I have a confirmed INTERFERENCE T8D:mad:

I bought a 2002 Spectra for a good price that had eaten a timing belt. I thought I would get a good deal based on ALL the posts about this engine freewheeling when the belt goes.

No.


It has at least one bent valve on every cylinder...I figured as much when several of the lash adjusters remained a 1/4-inch away from the cam lobe.

In fact, when I was turning the engine by hand to see if i could get compression in any of the cylinders, it stopped against an open valve on the exhaust side.

When I get the head off I'll present the photographic evidence.

In conclusion I think there have been several very lucky ppl with stripped timing belts, and for the rest of us do that timing belt service right on time or you'll be pulling the head off and doing a valve job just like I am.
 
#11 ·
2002 spectras have the 1.8L T8D. the beta 2.0L wasn't used until the 2004.5 models.

the engine is non-interference so you've probably got something else going on. you haven't had the head shaved down or anything have you?
 
#12 ·
I don't know what's been done to it, I just bought it.

It has 158K on it and the man drove it the last 25,000 miles without doing anything to it.

The timing belt stripped at the crank like they all do and judging by the condition of the belt I am nearly certain that it is the original.Nothing else looks to have ever been touched..in fact the plastic clips on the fuel injector connectors all broke with the slightest touch they were so brittle.

Either way it bent the hell out of several valves, and it stops against the open exhaust valves on the cylinder furtherest away from the T-belt.

I'm going to buy a low-mileage engine and drop in and be done with it..they are dirt cheap on eBay. Still won't even have $1500 in it.
 
#14 · (Edited)
even if you dont take care of it, that wouldn't make this case of bent valves because of broken t-belt any different. so what the guy didnt change matinence items, that has nothing to do with a t belt bending valves. How would it? That wouldn't make the pistons move anymore than a taken care of vehicle.
This is the way I see it, some people get lucky (yes there is luck in this world) and some bend valves. Even cars that are non-interference could bend valves, if at high rpms. If your at idle or just above your odds are better not to bend them, but if your way up there, theres no way.
Lets see some pics of that broken belt and motor opened up for us to see, just like lets see those bent valve pics. Both ways...
Id personally like to see his pics, for proof that it bent valves.
I personally trashed 2 sephias, becuase of broken tbelts. Confirmed by best friend mechanic, that half the time don't charge me for work, (if I help) so its not like he was trying to make a buck off me. Besides, he knew if valves where bent, I was parting them out, then scapping the rest.
We all have our own opinion and experiences. mine, t-belts on sephias, does damage to "MOST" owners.
It might also depend on rpms when belt breaks.
 
#20 · (Edited)
If any engine can manage to get the valves to contact the piston without a valve actually snapping at the stem first then I would call it an interference engine. Next time someone has one of these engines pulled down with the timing belt off , do members a favor, please turn over the cam by hand while a piston is at the top of it's stroke so we will know once and for all if the valves touch the piston crown and the engine is interference type or not.
 
#21 ·
will do.

as for if this engine is non-interference or interference. i have posted proof FROM KIA, not some aftermarket parts information BS, that this is non-interference. as for bending valves at high rpms...i don't think luck has anything to do with my sephia not bending valves when i was revved to 6,000 rpms when my timing belt sheered 19 teeth off of the belt at the crankshaft. if you bend valves on a non-interference engine, there's obviously something else at play there and since i take care of my engine as do some of the others that have "gotten lucky" it forces me to question how well you really take care of your vehicle if you bent valves. things could be sticking causing valves to stick open or open farther than the cams push them open. you could have stuck HLAs, gunk in the valves guides, etc. if your engine is well maintained, you shouldn't have these problems. as for me, i beat the hell out of my engine, but i also take very good care of it. i wouldn't beat it like i do if i didn't take care of it and perform maintenance religiously on it.
 
#22 · (Edited)
KIAracer I agree that the engine is non interference based on your posts with the info supplied from KIA, I only suggested someone test it out next time they have one apart and report their findings to convince any doubters.
 
#25 ·
sorry, i wasn't posting that for you pulsar. i was posting it for a hard-headed member of this forum that shall remain nameless. but next time i have a head off of a T8D engine i will take some pictures of the valves fully open and post them if someone doesn't get to it before i do.

as for if an engine is interference or not, if you have the timing belt off and have one of the cams holding valves open, you can test this by carefully turning the crankshaft. if the piston hits the valves, it won't let you turn the crankshaft anymore until you close the valves. i can tell you from experience that ALL of kia's engines are interference engines except the ones mentioned in the pitstop article and earlier mazda based kia engines.
 
#23 · (Edited)
There has been a number of times on this site where there has been arguments and questions over whether the T8D engine in the sephias and spectras are interference or non-interference. i was asked, in the last argument, to prove that i was right on this subject and if i couldn't prove it then i basically didn't know what i was talking about. today i was browsing around on our GDS at the dealership on some info on a sportage i'm working on and i ran across an article in the tech times section from 2005 that basically proved me right. feel free to look it up for yourself and read it on kiatechinfo.com if you still need proof that this is direct from KMA/Kia Motors Corp.
The T8D engine was derived from a non-interference design licensed from Mazda (the F-series motor of the 626, I think) in the early-to-mid 1990's. Dates back to when Ford had a major stake in Kia (and Mazda too) and most Kia products were using Mazda drive trains of one sort or another. I would guess KMA would consider any pre-Hyundai derived technology to be the red-headed step children of the past.
 
#24 ·
If it makes a difference: while changing my timing belt, I rotated the camshafts completely while the belt was off. I thought for sure I bent a valve while doing this (I wasn't thinking when I did it). But I got it all back together, fired her up, and she purred like a kitten. So I'm assuming the valves did NOT touch the pistons. That, or rotating the cams by hand isn't forceful enough to bend a valve anyways...
 
#27 · (Edited)
so i was "lucky" when both my sportage and my sephia broke timing belts, both on acceleration above 6,000 rpms as well as many others that have "gotten lucky" when their sephia or sportage didn't break valves. wow thanks for clearing that up for me. i suppose many rio owners with interference engines get lucky like this too? if they do then this forum wouldn't be littered with horror stories from rio owners that had the disappointment of having a mechanic find this and this because they were just driving along and the engine just cut off. personally i've never seen a sportage or sephia/spectra with bent valves after a timing belt break and we have them coming in all the time which leads me to believe that if you didn't inspect the valves yourself on those 3 sephias that you mentioned, then the shops you took them to probably fed you some BS to make money off of you. i've personally confirmed that this pitstop article from kia is true to it's word.

i really think that kia dealership you mentioned needs get with the program. just because they're the only dealer in the state, doesn't mean they can't be trying to hit a home run on every timing belt break that gets towed in. our dealership being in the vicinity of 4 other kia dealerships and countless independent shops, we don't have that luxury and actually have to compete with the other dealers in the area. and yes i'm saying that they probably didn't even look at your valves. they could have just went off of aftermarket "knowledge" and assumed the engine was an interference type because of what the timing belt manufacturers say.

not even sure why i'm STILL wasting time arguing with you about this because you're gonna believe what you want regardless of the information and proof i post on here. at least i did my part by posting proof FROM KIA that you requested at the beginning of this argument so that people can decide for themselves what is the correct information. and if you're going to try and challenge kia's information on their own engines that they built and designed versus what any non-kia information says, then you're an idiot.
 
#28 ·
Apparrently you are one of those people that read something and don't comprehend it. I am not disputing our claims, I am simply putting out what has happened to me.
Did I say, kiaracer is lieing? No i did not. I said in my experience, it seems as though they are interference.
 
#30 ·
"seems as though they are interference"

well with my experience as well as many others, they have shown to be non-interference and kia backs that up. i shouldn't have to pay $16 to find out something i already know.
 
#31 ·
I was at the junkyard the other day. I saw a Kia Sephia....must have been a 00 or 99. It had the head taken off. The cylinder seemed to have depressions for where the valves can go... It looked like this.


I took a pic with my phone, so I'll try and get that up here soon.
 
#32 ·
The recesses are for the valve heads so they have clearance in operation, and not sacrifice to much compression by having big piston crown to combustion chamber height.. The engine is non interference but if anything like timing belt breaks at speed or cam shaft fails or seizes, everthing comes to a faster than normal stop so valves can still be damaged by the sudden deceleration without even hitting the pistons. That is why non interference engines can still break valves without the valve heads necessarily hitting the piston crown..
 
#33 ·



Alright, those are the pics I have off of my phone. Sorry they're not better quality. Oh, and this isn't my Kia...it's one I saw in the junkyard!
 
#34 · (Edited)
Good photos Bigcee, I was hoping they were of the junkyard engine otherwise you have a internal rust problem in your car's bores. ;);)::D. The photos show the recesses for the valve heads in the piston crowns very clearly.
 
#35 ·
I was running 90 on the interstate in my 2000 Sephia when the belt went, no bent valves, replaced belt, and just fine. My mechanic told me that the smaller engine for this car (he said 1.6, tho I haven't found any evidence of this size existing for this car) was an interference engine, but the 1.8 (which is what it has, of course, i don't know if they MAKE a smaller engine for it) was a non interference engine. Also, my belt had 26 teeth shredded off of it... the engine had 98k on it when this happened, in January of '05.
 
#36 ·
I can tell you guys from experience that those engines are none interferance just as kiaracer has stated. I can also tell you from experience (I have a few years behind my belt) that it is possible for a non interferance engine to bend valves. Age, eng RPMS and heat are all factors (whoever said they take off from stops and have their engine rapped out at 6,000 rpms was lucky he did no damage his engine, I am not sure why you would drive your car like that especially a KIA but I have my doubts that he is being 100% honest, just from experience). I have seen a couple sportages (I believe a 2000 and a 2001 - can't remember for sure) that did do engine damage. Both bent valves. It is rare but it can happen. I have seen it. But just for the record I have probably seen 10 other sportages that broke belts and had no issue's (we very rarely ever saw sephia's and I have never seen a broken t-belt on a spectra - go figure)
 
#37 · (Edited)
Hey,
I am not going to debate this time, just wanted to say that I guess my 63 year old dad was just unlucky wit his sephia that he sold because of this (traded in that is)
His belt broke on his sephia. His car somehow managed to do internal damage when the belt broke. And no, the shop was not taking him for a ride as its a family friend that does his work. And in no way made any money off him.
He dont race his car, let alone even drive the speed limit lol. Guess he was just unlucky.
Like I said before, even a non, motor can do damage.
My 89 prelude was interference, but slapped a new belt on when it broke, started it, ran perfect, and thats interference.
Like the saying goes Crap happens.
 
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