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Temp Guage not working but ecu knows temp.

31K views 62 replies 11 participants last post by  Loyale 2.7 Turbo 
#1 ·
2000 Kia Sephia Coolant Temp Sensor

My friend has a 2000 Kia Sephia with the 1.8L DOHC and it threw a Check Engine Light for the Coolant Temp Sensor, can anyone tell me where it is at on the car?
Thanks
 
#50 ·
I hope I could help you...

I just tagged Loyale 2.7 Turbo in this thread since that name was on the pictures I posted.. I don't know if it shows up for him or if I need to private message him to see this thread. I just joined the forum so still getting used to things.
Sorry for comin' late to the party, but I've been in "offline mode" since some time ago, and being pretty busy + tired nowadays... However, I hope to answer your Questions, properly, as far as I could, doin' my Best effort for helping you and others who might find these posts, useful.


... My ecu says my temp is at 190-200 degrees depending on how hot it is and if my ac is on, but my factory dashboard guage reads about 1/4 up the guage from cold 100% of the time. It never moves at all. Can anyone help with this? ...
I assume it moves to zero when the key is off, and only rises up to ¼ when the engine is Running, isn't it? ... otherwise the Gauge at the instrument cluster, is Damaged and needs replacement.

... The sensor seems like it is working according to the ecu. When the car is cold the ecu says 80-100 degrees. After it warms up 190-200 degrees. And it seems to climb normally while warming up. My sephia has only the one plug on the thermostat housing ...
I assume that those readings were taken with an OBD-II Scanner, isn't it?

If so, they're accurate, and the ¼ reading at the Temperature gauge is the problem.

In some cases, such fail is related to the P-0128 "Phantom" code.

You can either try with another instrument cluster from a Junk Yard to see if the readings goes back to normal on the instrument cluster's gauge, and / or trace the wirings, looking for a loose / corroded connection on them.

On that second option, I bet that your Sephia's instrument Cluster, has loose its connecting screws, if so, the Solution to your Sephia's problem, is as simple and easy, as just taking off the instrument cluster for cleansing its electrical contacts, and retighten all the Screws behind it; because said screws are the ones who sends the electrical contact to the Gauges.

You can see an example about how those contacting screws works and also how if they are loose, they're the reason for some fails on the gauge's readings at the instrument clusters, Here:

~► http://www.kia-forums.com/2g-1998-2001-sephia/84797-instrument-cluster-swap-tachometer-3.html


Does anyone know where to find a factory service manual? ...
Once upon a time, Kia offered all that information at the "Kia Tech info" website, by free... it is also known as KGIS, but such great site, suddenly became a pay per read website, and somehow, they banned all the online sources of information, such as scanned copies of factory manuals, due to copyright infringements, you know...

That website still exists and holds that info, but you have to pay in order to gain access:

~► https://kiatechinfo.snapon.com/default.aspx


Two more things: First, remember that underlined words on my posts, are web links to further information on the Subject, but those links only works for logged-in users, otherwise you'll see other web links with propaganda and advertisments, automatically generated by this web forum's system.

Second: If you find my posts, useful; please hit the "Like" button on them. I ask this as motivation to continue sharing my experience and photos with all you...

Kind Regards.
 
#31 ·
Ok since I found this thread now (After Making my own).
from the online research I have done. I have found out that the 1998 & 1999 model KIA Sephia's have the 2 sensor setup. And the 2000 and 2001 have the 1 sensor setup, for the temperature sensors.

I have a 2000 KIA Sephia and it only has the one sensor on the right hand side of the thermostat housing.
I hooked up and obd2 scanner to the car and it displays a seemingly accurate temperature. 80-100 degrees cold and 190-200 degrees hot. And it seems to climb up to operating temperature normally.

My dashboard temperature gauge just stays about 1/4 way up from cold at all times. Never moves at all - just stuck.

So my questions are,
-How do I test the gauge itself to see if I need a new one?
-How would the wiring to the gauge be tested?
-If I need a new temperature gauge, could I put a new one in that gauge cluster? or would I have to replace the whole cluster?

Also - could I use the stock sensor to put in an aftermarket temperature gauge that has numbers on it?
If not - could I grab a sensor from and older Sephia (98-99) and put it in my 2000 where it has the plug is? (The same spot the sensor is on the 98-99 models.) Then instead of running that to the dash gauge, I would run it to an aftermarket gauge.
 
#34 ·
Just to make things clear for Google search.

Since this is the first post that came up when I was searching google, let me add to the thread.
Not all sepia's have two temperature sensors.
Some have 1 and some have 2.
From the research I have done... The 98-99 have 2 sensors & the 00-01 have 1.
The one on the left of the thermostat housing is for the dash and the one on the right is for the ecu.
I will include pictures.
Auto part Automotive fuel system Carburetor Engine Fuel line


Auto part Fuel line Engine Carburetor Automotive engine part


Auto part Fuel line Engine Vehicle Automotive fuel system
 
#35 ·
The problem I am having is that I have a 2000 Sephia and my ecu is showing an accurate temp, but my gauge never moves at all. I have a model with the 1 sensor setup.
I am not sure how to test the gauge properly or how to install an aftermarket temp gauge

This pictures shows I only have one temp sensor.
Auto part Engine Fuel line Automotive engine part Carburetor


This is where my gauge stays at all times - never moves.
Speedometer Gauge Auto part Odometer Measuring instrument
 
#36 ·
What happened? 3 Threads merged into one now.

I don't know what happened, but it looks like 3 different threads have now merged into one thread. Probably by an admin or something.

OK. Update -
I unplugged the temperature sensor connector and the gauge didn't move at all. stayed in the same place.
I know it was suggested to ground the connector and see if the temperature on the dashboard gauge increases to max temp. There are three wires, and I know one of those has to go to the ecu. I am not comfortable grounding a wire that goes to the ecu because I fear I could damage something.

So with the three wire connector, what would be the steps to test the gauge and the wiring?
I am not sure what wire goes to what.. So without a book, or someone with that knowledge I will have to take off the heat wrap and chase all these wires.
I believe that the sensor itself is in working order since the ecu knows what the temperature is at.

Also 2nd question, what would be the best way to hook up an after market gauge?
(I want one that displays numbers to have a better idea of what my actual temperature is at all times.)
Is it better to :
-Use the stock sensor that is in it already?
-Install a sensor from an older (98-99) Sephia to the other side of the thermostat housing (Just behind it actually.) where mine is plugged off, and run that to an aftermarket gauge?
- Or is there a good spot to put in a sensor that comes with one of those aftermarket gauges?
 
#37 ·
I don't know what happened, but it looks like 3 different threads have now merged into one thread. Probably by an admin or something.

OK. Update -
I unplugged the temperature sensor connector and the gauge didn't move at all. stayed in the same place.
I know it was suggested to ground the connector and see if the temperature on the dashboard gauge increases to max temp. There are three wires, and I know one of those has to go to the ecu. I am not comfortable grounding a wire that goes to the ecu because I fear I could damage something.

So with the three wire connector, what would be the steps to test the gauge and the wiring?
I am not sure what wire goes to what.. So without a book, or someone with that knowledge I will have to take off the heat wrap and chase all these wires.
I believe that the sensor itself is in working order since the ecu knows what the temperature is at.

Also 2nd question, what would be the best way to hook up an after market gauge?
(I want one that displays numbers to have a better idea of what my actual temperature is at all times.)
Is it better to :
-Use the stock sensor that is in it already?
-Install a sensor from an older (98-99) Sephia to the other side of the thermostat housing (Just behind it actually.) where mine is plugged off, and run that to an aftermarket gauge?
- Or is there a good spot to put in a sensor that comes with one of those aftermarket gauges?
Not sure why you want numbers on the gauge. The odb is telling you the temp, so you know the actual temps based on which hash mark the needle is on. If the middle mark is 190, you'll figure out the temp.

I myself haven't found a helpful troubleshooting book yet, but I'd imagine you should just pop the cluster and replace the gauge. You can first see the coloring on the wire, and test to confirm the wire isn't shorted. But id imagine if it shorted, it wouldn't stay at 1/4 mark.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
#38 ·
The reason I would want numbers on my gauge is to see exactly what my temp is at all times. I find that factory gauges don't all read the same.

For example: I have a 98 Ford Expedition that stays from 190-205 degrees according to the ecu. But my gauge only goes up to about the 1/4 mark. The guage works fine...
I also have a 1999 Ford F150 that stays at 180 degrees but the gauge is just below the half way mark. I have a 1998 Chevrolet metro that stays at 190 and sits on the half way mark.

I have changed out many gauges in cars (mostly to put in a cluster with a tachometer) and I have noticed a difference in where the needle sits. So I know it isn't a sensor or wiring, and it is the gauge itself.

So.. Instead of just using the gauge as a way to see if the car is running hotter or cooler than normal. I would like to know the exact number.

I only know what the exact temp is when I hook up my obd2 scanner. I would like to know at all times.

Yes if my gauge was working properly, I could hook up my scanner wait for the car to get up to 190-195 degrees and see where exactly that puts the needle and If it gets to much above that - I am running hot and if it stays to much below - then it is running cool. But with numbers I can know exactly where it is at all times.

Another side note - I am also going to install a volt gauge, hitch, and led lights, and possibly a train horn later on down the road. I will post pictures and information on how I do it and what I use when I get to it. This forum doesn't seem to be as active or have as much information on it compared to other forums I am apart of.
 
#39 ·
I unplugged the connector and the gauge didn't move at all.. So my guess is I have a bad gauge.

Yes, your right about just seeing what color wire is hooked up to the gauge then going to the connector and testing the same color wire.

The book we would need for problems like this is the factory service manual.
 
#42 ·
Glad I kinda helped sorta, ha.
You're right, guys on this forum are less active than my other forums. And some have a stick up their ass.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm seriously curious. What do you care what temp you're engine is running at other than its at a normal ruining temp? Why do you care if its off 5 degrees?

My point about the stock gauge being that you cab use a stock gauge and not worry about fit etc. If you're stock gauge runs in the middle, just check the odb2 one time and you will always know that the middle position is 190. As the engine warms you can watch the odb, and know what each mark is temp wise.

If you're driving you're car and the gauge is always in the normal position, you will know there's a change up or down. If you run at 190 and one day the gauge goes down partially, do you really need to know if its at 170 or 160 while you're driving?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
#40 ·
Not too many folks are still driving or working with model years that old, I gave up my 04 spectra 4 years ago to the scrap yard due to the body/chassis rotting out. But that is due to the geographic climate area I live in(Buffalo NY). And if you probably had done a search to the subject of your wants here , it was probably already discussed long ago in the "archives" here.
 
#41 ·
1.) Where I live, (Las Vegas Nevada). 90% of the vehicles on the road are from 1980-2000. So my car is not what we would call "to old to work with".

2.) I did do a search on this forum for what I was looking and found the threads I have commented on... Nothing else. And not a whole lot of usable information. I found more info in the comment of a video youtube which is sad, when there is a forum.
 
#43 ·
But just to sum it up.. Yes you are right I could do that. 190 - center of the gauge is not always accurate.. All the gauges I have ever worked with all read different. I have tested this theory. We have put 4 different gauge clusters in a 1998 Chevrolet metro. Each needle was in a different spot when the vehicle got to operating temp.
But your point is still valid.. I can note where the needle is when the car is at operating temp and make calculations from there.. But it is easy to look down and see... Oh temp is at 210 degrees.. We getting hot but we are still good.

Again.. Could use a stock gauge to do that..

Another point.. I have a gauge cluster with a tachometer. Those are harder to find in the junk yard and used. Easy to find an aftermarket temp gauge.
 
#45 ·
When searching older posts for info about your question, you may need to change the wording of your "query" to find what you are looking for, in the forum of your model of car and date of mfg. Yes it seem a lot of folks lately are NOT of the DIY modification sort or heavily into self repairs beyond "plug and play". In your climate, bodies and powertrains may last quite a long time, that does not mean everybody else do and are still ACTIVE with any forum. Please remember this is an owners site(forum) and not a factory tech service, answers will be based by such.
 
#46 ·
I know this is an "owners" forum. I am apart of many other forums just like it. The whole point of those forums is to help each other out "DIY repairs", diagnoses help, post what modifications have been done, and so on. This one however... Is not to much help at all. I know these model sephias as well as the first get are very popular on the other side of the world.

As far as the search goes... I have changed the wording.. No help. The threads I did find were for the same problem... But no good answers. Just like my thread. So I posted my experience to those threads to help people in the future with the same problem.
 
#48 ·
Not to be "hard nosed" about it, but why would I want to do searches for you that you can do? I don't have a ride as old as the first Gen and would not need to "look for info about them to give you "exact" step by step answers to your question. So you have a poor reading gage, They can be replaced easily from the instrument cluster. So why beat a dead horse insisting you get answers to your want, that are not coming anyway?
 
#49 ·
You told me to do a search.... I did.
(That is how I found the thread in the first place.)
Then you told me that I will probably find what I am looking for if I change my wording... Uhh yeah. Tried that the very first time I did a search.

You are saying the information I seek is somewhere on the forum. That my question has been anwered.... I can't find an answer to any of my questions on this forum. Which is why I say it is not active enough.
Now I see why... All the answers I get are suggesting I am the problem... Like the car is not what we came to this forum to talk about...

I can go to any other forum I am apart of and ask the same questions and get an actual response... Not a bunch of trolls.

I bet I can go ask a question about my Sephia on other forums and actually get an intelligent response... Not "oh, you are using the search wrong." .

And If I am... Point me in the right direction. I would do it for you.. Or anyone else.

Your response to me is that the car is just to old. No one wants one or has one anymore.... Why do you think that? Because mine is a 2000 and you sold your 2004 to the junkyard because you had a rusted car.. Well not everyone has money to go buy a new car every year.. And not everone needs to.. Since not everyone lives where it snows...

This car is what I call my beater. I have other vehicle's as well. I want this car because it is cost effective. I can do my own repairs and modifications. Cheap to buy parts, cheap to buy the car in the first place... Seems easy enough to maintain.

All I really need is a diagnostic tree from a factory service manual and I can figure it all out. Seems like no one on this forum has one. How can this be a 2md gen kia Sephia forum and now one has a factory service manual or similar (Not a Haynes or Chilton manual.). 2nd gen kia Sephia owners dont seem like they like to help each other out like other car owners / enthusiasts would. I have owned about 230 vehicle's myself and I am apart of many other forum's. I have provided information to other people, and I have gotten good information from those forums as well.. Without trolls, and with faster response's.
 
#54 ·
The factory gauge never moves. If the car is on, off, cold, hot... Battery hooked up, battery disconnected, doesn't matter.. It never moves. Yes I am getting the temp reading from obd2 scanner.
Then, the mere gauge is the Problem.

Remember what I wrote on my previous post:

... I assume it moves to zero when the key is off, and only rises up to ¼ when the engine is Running, isn't it? ... otherwise the Gauge at the instrument cluster, is Damaged and needs replacement. ...
So, I kindly suggest you to try swapping instrument Clusters, with a known Good one, from a Junk Yard, and let us Know the Results.


It sucks that kia tech now has to be paid for.. I need to get my hands on a factory service manual.
Yes, I Agree.

I heard rumors that you can download a copy in .pdf form of the service manual, but I've only found one .exe file that has it in an interactive way, but in Russian, and I don't understand Russian, sadly.

Remember that the Sephia was still built at the Russian and Egiptian Plants, up to 2011.

Good Luck with your Sephia, Kind Regards.
 
#61 ·
When I find the same cluster I have in my car (with tachometer) in the junkyard, I will swap clusters and let you guys know if that was the problem.. Or if it was wiring.
The wiring is not, as you can read the temperatures accurately, via OBD-II scanner, and it goes to the ECU prior to go to the instrument Cluster.

Instrument Clusters on these Sephias / early Spectras, are prone to Fail; our "KiaStein" is on its Third one, so far. More information with details and Photos, here:

~► http://www.kia-forums.com/2g-1998-2001-sephia/84797-instrument-cluster-swap-tachometer-2.html


I am also curious to see if I can use a sensor from an older Sephia with an aftermarket guage that has numbers on it ... to use one from an older (98-99) Sephia that had 2 sensors, and put the second sensor on my 2000 Sephia and run it to the aftermarket guage. I think they have to be calibrated to get an accurate temp reading though.
Yes, some older T8D engines from the Sephia, Spectra, Credos, Carens and Elan (All Kias), had two sensors for the Temperature, as posted way before in this thread, but both doesn't have the same thread size, see:




In my own humble opinion, that route is overcomplicated, unnecessarily; because you will need to:

Remove the Head from the engine, in order to drill and tap a new threaded hole, with the proper thread, to install a second sensor; without letting metallic debris to going in. Remember that these T8D engines uses a one time use Screws, so you must change 'em all + the Head Gasket.

Find the needed Sensor and place it properly with its Wiring plug.

Trace the new wiring for the Sensor...

Place the aftermarket gauge on the Dashboard, which is made of brittle plastic that deforms and breaks easily; that should be a challenge by itself, or the gauge will end in the windshield pillar...

Try to make this setup to work for you / learn to read it properly...

In my case, I would swap instrument Clusters... or at least, check the one already on your Sephia, in order to see if there is something that you could do to make it work properly again.

Good Luck, Kind Regards.
 
#56 ·
I am also curious to see if I can use a sensor from an older Sephia with an aftermarket guage that has numbers on it.
I know if I can find a good guage cluster, that would be a better option.
But if not, I can install an aftermarket guage just need a sending unit. My theory was to use one from an older (98-99) Sephia that had 2 sensors, and put the second sensor on my 2000 Sephia and run it to the aftermarket guage. I think they have to be calibrated to get an accurate temp reading though.
 
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