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Need Help ~ Rear Disc Brakes Swap! ;)

64K views 237 replies 4 participants last post by  Loyale 2.7 Turbo 
#1 · (Edited)
This is a Project, and I will need your Help to Successfully finish it,

so any Advice, Idea, Experiences and Suggestions are very Welcome. :)


So, I am perfectionist and I somehow "Need" that my cars run Mechanically as near as Perfect could be Possible, but my Wife's "KiaStein" needs monthly adjustments to the Rear Drum Brake's Shoes and I'm getting very Tired doing that monthly adjustment.

(More info, ~► Here.)

Not only because it is a Pain in the Rear to do such simple Job, due to the Lack of a well designed way to adjust 'em from the outside (There is an unuseful misaligned tiny hole in the Back of the Backing Plate and I never found a tool capable to "Magically" reach the adjuster thru it) and thus mean that you "Need" to remove the Whole Drum to do the Adjustment (many times 'till is done right), but also Because I suffer from Deep & Horrid Gout Foot Attacks some times per year, and during those days, I couldn't do that adjustment and I have to drive my Wife's "KiaStein" because is Automatic and thus mean to use only one foot...

The Rear Drum Brake system found on the Second Gen Sephia uses a Ratcheting Cam (Named "Strut" by Kia) that is suposed to take up play as Brake Shoes wear, but definitively, such thing doesn't work at all due to their bad design, and as the rear brake shoes wear, their surface gets farther from the rotating drum and during braking, the rear wheels spin freely while the fronts are doing the braking effort, because the rear brake pumps can't handle well the extra distance without a useful automatic shoes adjuster, that means that the rear shoes are barely "Touching" the Drums under Braking, while the fronts could be at Maximum clamping force.

So, in order to compensate the normal wear on the rear shoes, the car needs Monthly adjustments to the Rear Drum Brakes to Keep said shoes as near to the Rotating drum as possible, and thus means to have a firm & tall brake pedal, and ensure that it has the proper braking power to be Safe... but I'm really tired of doing that, I already tried with new Adjusters, springs, etc... it is a Faulty design that never worked at all.

Kia found the only Real solution to that problem: To install Factory Rear Disc Brakes.

I Know that there was a "Top of the Line" second gen Kia Sephia (Premium) Model with Factory Rear Disc Brakes, but is not easy to come across one of those in Local Junk Yards.

So, the Questions Are:

Have anybody did the Rear Disc Brakes Swap or Retrofit on a 2000 Kia Sehia Before?

Where I could find Used parts from a Second Gen (1998 ~ 2001) Kia Sephia with Factory Rear Disc Brakes to do the Swap?

Does another Model's Rear Disc Brakes, fit onto the Sephia's Trail arms? ... in order to do a Retrofitting.

If so, which Model? ... Spectra? ... or Another Non Kia, such like Hyundai?

Could I use the Same Cables to enable the Park Brake function?

If someone comes across to a Sephia with Factory Rear Disc Brakes in Good Shape, I will buy 'em from you, so please let me Know.

Also let me Know if someone has already done such Swap or Retrofitting, and please point me to the Thread that has the Info
(I searched and found nothing).

Kind Regards.
 
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#38 ·
The 04 Spectra locally doesn't look good - has the (05) rear suspension, but am going back today to verify,

I have folks at (3) salvage yards locally keeping an eye out for a Spectra that has the rare rear-disc assembly,

And will be traveling out to another salvage yard approx 2 hours away on Monday to personally inspect a (potential) Spectra,

* Your project is important to me - I am glad to help: but I need to let you know that due to fortunate, happy circumstance, I was able to purchase a 2nd Sportage for my wife, it will be her daily driver ..

But as with most $500.00 purchases, it needs work, thankfully the majority of work is motor / exhaust related, which I am equipped to do .. The trade-off, of course, is a major investment of personal time to diagnose and rehabilitate the vehicle properly,

so, if the Monday trip doesn't produce results, we may have to expand the search area considerably / work by phone & email to see what is available in the U.S. ..

but as I stated above, some good folks that work local yards are looking out for us ,

Sorry about the delay in reply, didn't mean to keep you hanging on the '04 Spectra, hoping to have good news for you soon.
 
#39 ·
GottaCruse..
Good to know you are still looking....I backed off when you said you found one...I will look on my end (Northern Ohio) if you want.
There must not have been too many Sephia/Spectras with rear discs..
Dave
 
#40 ·
Hi Dave,

Yes, please keep looking - the Spectra at the local yard has the 05-09 rear axle setup / won't work for Jeszek .. Spindles aren't even close.

I also did some checking to see if it may be possible to swap the 04-09 hub onto the 00-03 spindle / to 'frankenkia' the rear hubs/spindles, but that appears to be a no-go .. The (2) assemblies are just too different.

I've learned more about Sephia/Spectra suspension and brakes in the past 3 weeks than I'd thought possible - factory rear disc brakes on the Sephia was very rare, rear disc brakes on the 00-03 Spectra was uncommon, but due to age, they are also very rare used at this point - you just don't see them in the yards in this area, and if you do, the ones I've seen are in poor condition, usually missing wheels, and sitting on dirt.

--
One of the reasons I purchased that 2nd Sportage is because it was a California vehicle, having spent the first 8 years of life out there, no road salt, and well maintained early on in life, the condition of the frame and major suspension parts is as good as I've seen on a 3-4 year old Sportage in NH,

I'm thinking of trying to contact some yards out in CA to see if they have anything that can help JesZek,

I also need to contact the yard that has that potential Spectra in NH on Monday morning - if that vehicle is not a recent rolling arrival, and I can't get good feedback on mileage/parts condition, I will have to defer before going out to personally inspect later in the week .. To combine that trip with other business / make the travel more cost effective,


Regards,
GottaCruise
 
#43 ·
Dear Friends Robert and Dave:

Thank you So Much for helping me to find those elusive parts, all your Efforts are Really Highly Appreciated, I Hope I could do something like that for you, someday.

I will be here, waiting...

Kind Regards.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Today I went to one of the many Local Kia Dealer's shops, I went because the High Pressure Pipe + Rubber Hose that sends the Power Steerin' fluid from the Pump, started to Fail: it started leaking oil from one of the Hose's ends, on the Lower Rubber Hose. (I already changed the Upper Rubber Hose)

By the way, I asked for the Rear Disc brake Parts for the Second Gen Sephia / First Gen Spectra, and they told me that they do not have the Spindles, nor the Rotor or Park Brake Cables; BUT they told me that the Rear Disc Brake on the Kia Carens uses the Same Rear Disc Brake Pads, and part of the Caliper (The Pump) is the Same... (Despite that Spindles and rotors are Different) ...and they have those pads locally, also such brake pads are available aftermarket for the Popular Kia Carens.

Could anybody please confirm if the Rear Disc Brakes on the Kia Carens uses the Same Pads than the Second gen Sephia / first Gen Spectra?

If that's true, it will be easy to find brake pad replacements locally, in case I finally made the Rear disc brakes' Swap...

Kind Regards.
 
#45 ·
Every and each day I check this Thread,

with the Hope of finding good news...

... maybe somehow, someway, someday ...

Kind Regards.
 
#46 ·
Greetings JesZek,

I haven't had any luck finding a (complete) rear disc assembly, but may have better luck on finding just the stub-axle assembly, e.g. the rear spindle and hub assembly only.

That would mean you would have to source/purchase the remaining items to complete the build, e.g. loaded caliper assemblies, back plates, e-brake cables..
--

If this is something you want to consider, getting the stub axles and completing the build sources locally / through internet, please let me know ..

* I checked w/ the guys working locally last week, no Sephia or Spectra's w/ rear-disc assemblies have come in, or are present in their respective yards.

Regards,
GottaCruise
 
#51 · (Edited)
Greetings JesZek,

I haven't had any luck finding a (complete) rear disc assembly, but may have better luck on finding just the stub-axle assembly, e.g. the rear spindle and hub assembly only.

That would mean you would have to source/purchase the remaining items to complete the build, e.g. loaded caliper assemblies, back plates, e-brake cables..
--

If this is something you want to consider, getting the stub axles and completing the build sources locally / through internet, please let me know
...
Greetings! ... Thank you for your Kind Help, which is really appreciated.

Yes, I could consider to obtain the Rear Disc Brakes' Spindles and Rotors and try to source the rest of the parts via internet, but that would be the last option, because seems to be hard to obtain such parts; unless what the Local Kia Dealer salesmen told me is true: that the Caliper is the same used in the Kia Carens, and other Kia models... in that case I could buy the Calipers, plus the brake pads Locally because they're available here; but I will LOVE to have a Confirmation on this info, prior to make a decision... and I lost the Access to KiaTechInfo Website.

Could you Confirm if the Calipers are Same, between the ones used on the Late Sephia / Early Spectra and the ones used on the Carens?

Kind Regards.
 
#47 ·
I have received no return emails from the yards I have contacted..

I just called a yard in Cleveland (Buckeye Woodland (1-216-421-2500 Moe)) and he said he'd call me back...
I asked that they check for "disc" spindles and any other parts that may be there..
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-YuNuTyh57XS0FlSmozeW5YSUE/edit?usp=sharing
We'll see...

Not much "support" from yards that want to make money from their cars..
 
#48 ·
Hi Dave,

If it's the same in OH as in NH, the yards are incredibly busy - lots of walk-in folks sourcing parts before winter arrives.. Phone / email inquiries are on the low-priority list here too.

But will keep trying on my side as well - if JesZek wants me to keep looking / trying to source stub-axle assemblies w/ him doing the remainder parts build-out, will try to help,

and always hoping that a random, rare, rear-disc brake Sephia or 00-03 Spectra rolls into one of the yards locally, looking forward to a call from the guys looking out here,

Keeping my fingers crossed also,
GottaCruise
 
#49 ·
Well Cleveland didn't work out..The counter guy said that the car was put into the "system" wrong and it had drums in the rear...
Tomorrow I'll try a yard in Western Pa... They have one listed with rear discs..
Dave
 
#52 ·
Well Cleveland didn't work out... ...Tomorrow I'll try a yard in Western Pa... They have one listed with rear discs..
Dave
Dear Dave, Thank you for your Kind Help, which is really appreciated.

May God grant that we could find them.
 
#50 ·
Found a possible locally that wasn't listed 2 weeks ago ( was flat-out working on getting the Mrs.' Sportage repaired / inspected & didn't have a chance to check ), sent them an email contact this evening .. Will follow up by phone ..
 
#53 ·
Found a possible locally that wasn't listed 2 weeks ago ... sent them an email contact this evening ... Will follow up by phone ..
Thank you so much guys for your Kind help,

I'll wait for your answers.

Kind Regards.
 
#54 ·
Hi JesZeK,

Will keep trying for the (complete) assembly, but as you know in your searching locally in Honduras, most vehicles of this age / vintage are not in the best of condition, so trying to find a complete, intact, rear assembly that has not been sitting exposed to weather is exceedingly difficult to find..

re: Caren's Calipers vs. Spectra vs. Sephia calipers - I have no idea..

I'm not in the trade, just another 'shade tree auto enthusiast' like yourself, and the shade tree is rapidly loosing leaves on it, even as I type.. :)

Will try to confirm via internet search, bu your local KIA source is the BEST method to confirm via parts # lookup / cross-ref.

--
Not trying to be pessimistic w/ above, but need to be a realist at this point, going on (2) months w/ no luck on the (complete) assembly.. Will get some pricing on the (Stub Axle) setups and do some math to see what the extra build $$$ will cost out to this weekend,

Best Regards,
GottaCruise
 
#56 ·
... as you know in your searching locally in Honduras, most vehicles of this age / vintage are not in the best of condition, so trying to find a complete, intact, rear assembly that has not been sitting exposed to weather is exceedingly difficult to find...
Yes, I Agree... You're Right.


... I'm not in the trade, just another 'shade tree auto enthusiast' like yourself, and the shade tree is rapidly loosing leaves on it, even as I type ... :) ...
Yes, I'm also a Shade Tree Mechanic, but I don't understand the Meaning of "Rapidly Loosing Leaves" in this case I'm feeling Lost in Translation once again (My Language is Spanish, I learned English only by myself) so very Kindly I ask if you mean that it is Autumm and soon Snow will fall, or if that means that you're Tired of searchin' those elusive Disc brakes ...

However, I am really sorry for all the inconveniences caused for searchin' those parts, please accept my Humble apologies.
 
#55 ·
I have been trying to find just the left and right spindles and "if" anything else is available (and still good) .. then I'll take those also..
The spindles are the expensive items the rest seem to be available at places like rockauto.com. Do a search for rotors and hubs..as they have a lot of close outs going on right now for the 03 Spectra rear disc brakes... Like new rotors for under $10.
The knuckles (spindles) are listed under "steering" for some known reason and ARE available there..
AUTO 7 Part # 8440007 Rear Left
AUTO 7 Part # 8440013 Rear Right

Dave
 
#57 · (Edited)
I have been trying to find just the left and right spindles and "if" anything else is available (and still good) .. then I'll take those also...
Dear Dave, as You and Robert stated, seems like the Way to go is Buying the Spindles and then obtaining the rest of the Parts.

I Agree that the Spindles for Rear Disc Brakes are the Hardest to obtain and, along the Calipers are the Most Expensive parts from the Rear Disc Brakes' Setup; so I accessed RockAuto.Com and somehow their Software displays the Page in Spanish, inmediately. (I believe they locate the I.P. of the PC accessing their Database)

I found them after Searchin' ... but RockAuto lacks on part details & info.



At least, they confirm that it Fits the 2nd Gen Sephias and the 1st Gen Spectras.

Kind Regards.
 
#58 · (Edited)
I Searched for "Auto 7 part Number 844-0007" (the Rear Left side Spindle)

on internet, and found it on Amazon.com:

~► Auto 7 844-0007 Axle Spindle For Select KIA Vehicles : Amazon.com : Automotive


Look at: "See all vehicles this product fits" Link on Amazon, it Confirms the Fitment.



But also I found Good deals in other parts, such like the Calipers:

~► BECK/ARNLEY Part # 0771786S




Also This is an Awesome Offer: The two Rear Rotors + Ceramic Pads:
(the image is Generic)





~► Amazon.com: Callahan Rear Premium Grade OE Replacement Brake Disc Rotors + Ceramic Brake Pads Set: Automotive



And Amazon says they Fits onto the Rear Axle of the Sephia :)
 
#59 · (Edited)
So, my Problems are:

► I couldn't buy online easily from Honduras...

► The Total Amount could be very Expensive for "NEW" parts, and...

► I am Afraid to end with an unuseful set of Parts lacking Small Hardware Parts.

Those are the Main Reasons why I would prefer to obtain a Used COMPLETE set...

But I'm Open to Suggestions.
 
#60 ·
Let me Explain this point:

... I couldn't buy online easily from Honduras...

I have purchased many products online, but Living in Honduras means that beside the Shipping & Handling costs I must pay within USA, Also I must pay another Shipping & Handling from USA to Honduras, plus an Import fee; the main problem is (Believe it or Not) the SIZE of the Box they send items.

Why? ... Because they Charge the Amount for the Cubic Size of the Box, Not the Actual Weight ...

In example: Long years ago I was "Screwed" by Amazon, that send me a Tiny Video Card (ATi Radeon AGP 512 Mb) that costed $ 24.ºº US Dollars and came factory on a small Box; but the Amazon guys placed that small box inside a Huge (Really Huge) Box, filled with air bags ... :eek: ... so the Delivery Co. measured that "Two Square Feet Box" in Pounds, and the Shipping cost went to the Sky for $ 59.ºº US Dollars ...
...

Now imagine the Shipping Costs from Each individual Part, at least the Two Spindles and the Two Rotors, receiving here each part, one by one, the delivery costs could raise up to obscene unpayable amounts...

Different story could be if everything is collected onto a single Box, prior to be Sent directly to Honduras as one single Pack, the cost will be much Lower = one single Bill.
 
#61 ·
Jes...
Believe me the thought of shipping size as well as weight has been part of my concerns.
Those spindles could ride together with a little strapping tape and the pointed ends blunted with tape or rags over them to keep them from poking through the box...
I also would like the complete spindle/caliper/caliper bracket together would be best but I don't think we'll find a complete assembly in real good shape..The hubs/bearings you have should work with the disc spindles as I see no difference in part numbers.

I will try a few more yards in the morning for spindles and calipers and brackets.
Dave
 
#62 ·
Dear Dave,

Thank you so much for your Kind Help. :)

In the past fifteen years, I've received many, many Car Parts from USA without any problem, but each part came in a Box with adequate size and each part solved a problem or issue I had with one of my Cars.

In Example, I received a 32/36 Weber Carburator from Redline Weber, a High Vibration Ignition Coil from Amazon, a Complete Rear Disc Brakes set for my Subaru Loyale from a Friend in Washington State... just to mention few.

My concern was not exactly the Total Weight nor the Total Shipping cost for one Box containing all; my concern was to receive all the needed parts on individual boxes, each one with its own Shipping, Handling and Tax fee... Only in Case I had to buy the parts individually, from the Links I posted on Post Nº 58 of this thread.

I will Wait for you and Robert to see if you obtain positive answers from Junk Yards, I believe it doesn't matter if Rotors, pads or bearings are worn, because those could be sourced locally and I plan to service the Rear Disc Brakes, prior to the install.

Kind Regards.
 
#65 ·
Jes..
I just tried (called) the below yard and they told me the whole rear suspension was gone.. They told me the listings on car-part.com don't get updated very often.

2001 Brake, Rear(Rotor/Drum) Kia Spectra A 4F7903 $Call Novak Auto Parts Inc. USA-PA(New-Brighton) Request_Quote 1-800-452-4343 Request_Insurance_Quote
Distance 65

I guess I'll have to go farther (distance) and look..
Still trying....
Dave
 
#67 · (Edited)
Jes..
I just tried (called) the below yard and they told me the whole rear suspension was gone ... I guess I'll have to go farther (distance) and look...

Still trying....
Dave

I'll give them another call - the vehicle was sitting for "awhile" before being junked ("awhile" = several years), but if the rear assembly is still complete / the vehicle hasn't been consigned to the crusher, I can take a ride up on Thursday morning to check it out.


Dear Friends,

Many Thanks for your kind will to help me with this, which is Really Appreciated.

Please check your inbox, I've sent a PM.

Kind Regards.
 
#68 · (Edited)
Please correct me if I'm Wrong:

The Calipers has Sides (L and R), isn't it?

I want to know about the two brackets per Caliper:

The Bracket that holds the Pads and the Bracket that holds the Parkin' Brake Cable.

Could I switch the Left to the Right side and Viceversa? (I Doubt it)

In case I couldn't find the proper ones Locally.

Kind Regards.
 
#69 ·
I found this pretty interesting comment while searchin' the Web (in other Forums):

I am a certified mazda technician and the 1999-2000 Kia sephia is basically a mazda protege / Ford Escort. It uses the same suspension / subframes front and rear including brakes. ... The Kia sephias transmissions is a upgrade to the 90-94 Mazdas cause the internals are stronger and axles are beefer

I Already knew that the Kia Sephia was somehow "Based" on the Mazda 323 / Protegé 1.8L \ Ford Escort of the era; but I'll LOVE to Know if any of those that came from factory with Rear Disc Brakes could have Spindles that will interchange with the Sephia's ones ... :) ...
 
#70 · (Edited)
According to the Info I found on Internet, all the Proteges that had four (4) lugs, that were Sold in USA, had Rear Drum Brakes; the Rear Disc Brakes for those models were available in Europe & Japan only.

See: http://www.protegefaq.net/mods_brakes.html#drumtodisc

So I'll Investigate about the Ford Escort GT.

Kind Regards.
 
#71 · (Edited)
I Believe this Document is Interesting, Despite that it is about a Rear Disc Brakes Conversion onto a Ford Escort GT, it is extremly well detailed, with Photos and procedures, so it worth share here, because many of such procedures shall be the same or very similar on a rear Disc Brake Swap / Retrofit to be Done on the Kia Sephia:





The Rear Spindles from the Escort will Not Fit the Gen II Sephia, as far as I read on some internet forums, they fit onto the Gen I Sephia, the older design.

Kind Regards.
 
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