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Oil Change - Conventional Or Synthetic? Dealer Misinformed?

69K views 42 replies 15 participants last post by  daveINvegas 
#1 ·
Hello,

I have a 2014 Sorento 4 Cylinder.

I just had an interesting discussion with the dealership that kind of contradicts everything I have read in the manual/seen on the internet.

I just took it in for the first oil change at 6k miles (I have seen some dispute about whether to take it in early for the first oil change or at 7500 - so I just took a guess)

The dealer will be using conventional oil and they said that the manual is just general KIA information, and that in the state of Ohio they recommend every 3000-3500 miles for an oil change. Not the 7500.

They also stated that my car is not built for synthetic oil.

This more or less contradicts a lot of what I have read. I went ahead and let them do the oil change since it was free, but I will most likely be doing the oil changes myself going forward with full synthetic oil.

It just sounds like they want me to pay them to put crappy conventional oil in every 3k miles.

What do you guys think? Also - if you have any references that would be great!
 
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#2 ·
darn that dealership... just wanting you to continue buying dino oil from them.. my dealership does my maintenance and i bring my own synthetic oil.. already pushing me to get 2014 because of how i am taking care of mine.. they want to sell it more still hahaha.. (synthetic oil) they even recommended it to me after 24kkm (15k miles)

anyway unless its not specified in the manual then they are not true.. they make money with service and used vehicles.. i do my maintenance in the dealership because they actually a good dealership; doing all the things specified in the service (like lubing door hinges even)

well synthetic is also beneficial with colder climates and never you will find that synthetic does harm to newer vehicles
 
#4 ·
Conventional or synthetic doesn't matter in my opinion. Unless oil companies are pulling a major swifty, synthetic should be made from chemical feedstock (smaller molecules) and is a product of defined composition, whereas conventional oil is a mixture of (partially) refined oils. Both oils have additives, and the feedstock for synthetic is originally derived from crude oil in all likelihood. So is an oil of more uniform composition much better? It's hard to say, but the received wisdom is that synthetic will last longer. Lubrication qualities should be the same, so it is strange that some recommend conventional oil as the initial fill ("to allow a bit of wear"), followed by synthetic. Many high-performance engines come from the factory with synthetic, so "go figure".

Personally, I have been using synthetic oil in my "better" cars, and good-quality conventional oil in the others. Lately, I have only been using synthetic, and changing at 15,000 km or 18 months. Most of our cars are now out of warranty, and doing less kms, so I'm comfortable with extending service intervals.

The Cerato has been running on conventional oil (Caltex 10W-30), but will soon be getting Total synthetic (5W-30). The oil always looks fairly clean after about 10,000 km, and there is no oil usage between changes, so there's no real worries. It's worth pointing out that synthetic oil in Australia costs somewhere between $10 and $20 per litre. Conventional is about $6 per litre; so there is opportunities for scamming here, I think.
 
#7 ·
Conventional or synthetic doesn't matter in my opinion. Unless oil companies are pulling a major swifty, synthetic should be made from chemical feedstock (smaller molecules) and is a product of defined composition, whereas conventional oil is a mixture of (partially) refined oils. Both oils have additives, and the feedstock for synthetic is originally derived from crude oil in all likelihood. So is an oil of more uniform composition much better? It's hard to say, but the received wisdom is that synthetic will last longer. Lubrication qualities should be the same, so it is strange that some recommend conventional oil as the initial fill ("to allow a bit of wear"), followed by synthetic. Many high-performance engines come from the factory with synthetic, so "go figure"...
Cuda, you are 100% correct.
 
#6 ·
According to the Kia manual I have, the normal maintenance schedule for an oil change is 7,500 miles, but it is 3,750 under "severe usage" conditions. Severe usage includes driving in areas using salt or other corrosive materials in very cold weather, or repeatedly driving short distances (5 miles or less in normal temperatures or 10 miles or less in freezing temperatures). Perhaps the Kia dealers in Ohio decided that road, weather and commuting conditions in Ohio are "severe".

...and not to be cynical, but you said that the oil change was free, so maybe your dealer was pushing conventional oil because THEY were paying for it.
 
#8 ·
...and not to be cynical, but you said that the oil change was free, so maybe your dealer was pushing conventional oil because THEY were paying for it.
That's not cynicism...it's reality. :)

Bulk conventional 5W-30 oil can be purchased for less than a dollar a quart. Synthetic 5W-20 in bulk is about $4-5/quart. So that "free" oil change costs the dealer about $10 for the cheap oil + filter or about $30-35 for synthetic+filter. Which do you think they'll choose? :) They don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts...they'll use that opportunity to prospect for other "value added services" to perform.

This system encourages unnecessary maintenance work as dealers make up for increased reliability of modern cars (less repair work) by amping up the maintenance opportunities (at your expense).

Best,
 
#13 ·
they never suggest synthetic as it would increase oil change intervals. Using synthetic they could not cay - hey, come back in 3 months or 3k miles to get it changed.

HOWEVER, they do not put synthetic in the factory. The way engine is built has not changed much (major stuff such as cylinders/pistons/rings). The cylinder sleeves must properly seal.
If you put synthetic oil into brand new engine the sleeves will not seal. Synthetic is too slippery and will cause glazing. Hence, low viscosity conventional oils are used.
 
#14 · (Edited)
HOWEVER, they do not put synthetic in the factory. The way engine is built has not changed much (major stuff such as cylinders/pistons/rings). The cylinder sleeves must properly seal.
If you put synthetic oil into brand new engine the sleeves will not seal. Synthetic is too slippery and will cause glazing. Hence, low viscosity conventional oils are used.

With all due respect, what you wrote is nonsense. Most US auto manufacturers put a syn blend at the factory, Mercedes and BMW use full synthetic at the factory. Conventional and synthetic oils are fully interchangeable, the latest API/ILSAC grade is SN/GF-5. The experts say as long as the API grade and viscosity are the same it makes no difference.

I am also confused with what Kia recommends, the manual and oil cap both say 5w-30 but all the dealers in my area use 5w-20.:confused:
 

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#20 ·
This topic came up recently on the Harley forum that I frequent, and just like here, there's a fair deal of conflicting information out there.

Most folks on the Harley forum promote the use of mineral based oils for the first 1000 mile break-in period, however as can be seen in the attached from Harley, they advise that the fully synthetic oil can be used right from the start.

It may be that synthetic oils with "friction modifiers" are not suited for the break-in period?


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=jx6315nNI08wSYbBXnsQ5g&bvm=bv.54934254,d.b2I
WhEn CAn i START uSinG Syn3 full
SynThETiC MOTORCyClE luBRiCAnT?
Right away. SYN3 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Lubricant is
approved for all stages of engine life, including the first
service interval – which means it’s not detrimental to
engine break-in. You can even use it as a first fill upon
deliv ery of a new motorcycle.
Royal Purple has a specific oil for the break-in period:
Royal Purple Break-in Oil | Royal Purple
 
#21 ·
Royal Purple has a specific oil for the break-in period
which is full mineral oil

Don't take my word for it
Again, I am not sure how exactly engines are assembled. Would the factory perform initial break in on mineral oil? They could... especially that those are $50k+ cars

Yes, I take your point, some cars come with synthetic.
Although, it is not my question here...
 
#22 · (Edited)
The break in oil concept is fine if you building/rebuilding a motor in your garage. But which car factories are shipping cars with "break in" oil and telling owners to change it out in Xmiles/kg for "regular" oil (syn or non-sun) per manual specs? Have never heard of that being done.

I would bet that Kia in West Point takes competitive bids from several oil suppliers and uses the cheapest oil that meets their specs. After all, they buy engine oil in serious quantities.
 
#23 ·
When I bought my '12 sorento I asked the service manager if they had any recomendations on if the first oil change should be done any sooner then the regular scheduled interval and he said Kia puts a break in oil and should be left in for at least 3000 miles.
That was the first I heard of it also.
 
#24 ·
Interesting. I have never heard that from the Kia dealer that services my wife's 2012 Optima. When I pick up my Sorento in a couple of weeks, I will ask that dealer's service department about this.

To me if there is special oil that is to be left for 3000+miles for breaking, that should be in writing to the owner. Has anyone seen anything in writing from Kia, not a local dealer employee, that says they use "break in" oil for vehicle deliveries?
 
#30 ·
Apparently the first fill is Total Quartz 9000. Google “Kia-Total lubricants partnership” for additional information.
Maybe in Europe or other parts of the world. But in West Point GA? I would be shocked if that oil is being trucked to West Point just to fill Optimas and Sorentos on the assembly line. Who has seen bottles of any Total oil on a shelf in the States? My local dealer uses Mobil 1 for oil changes.
 
#31 ·
My 2014 Kia Sorento owners manual has the Total Quartz logo on the Recomended Lubricants and Capacities page#8/6. I have never seen the Total brand in the big box stores in NJ however, the oil is sold in a few smaller stores in my area.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Since I do have my Sorento yet, I downloaded the owner's manual from the Kia Tech site. On pages 8/6 and 8/8 the oil recommendation is for 6.02 quarts (5.7 Liters) of iAPI SM or ILSAC GF-4. That is a bit odd as those specs are several years one and there are newer ones. At ILSAC there is the GF-5 spec. That corresponds to API SN Resource Conserving. Those newer specs are for oils that do a better job with turbos, ethanol, and other issues. The viscosity grade recommended is 5W-30. The chart indicates if you are in an arse freezing climate consider 5W-20.

So for my Sorento the oil will be API SN Resource Conserving (ILSAC GF-5) 5W-30. Since I have been using Mobile 1 for years, I will stay with that product line. The Mobil 1 oil that fulfills the ILSAC GF-5 is Mobile 1 Extended Performance. So for me the next question is Kia filters or Mobil filters. I hear Kia filters are good.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I have heard of the tie-up between KIA and Total, but it's anyone's guess what they actually use during manufacture. I use their 5W-30 Synthetic in our cars.

Total isn't a common brand in Australia, but is used by many independent service shops. I get mine from a local distributor, who tells me it may soon be more widely available in retail outlets.

I've never changed the oil early-on with new engines. Over the last 10 years or so, there's been 5 new cars in our family and, after the usual 1000km break-in and checking period, the cars have been pressed into service on annual holidays etc. and not touched until the first service at 7,500km to 15,000km.

There has been no evidence of engine wear, and oil usage between changes has been minimal. Oils used have been Castrol (15W-40) and Caltex (10W-30) conventional, and more recently Castrol or Total synthetic (5W-30).
 
#39 ·
Couple that with the manual specifying older ILSAC GF4 instead of ILSAC GF 5...or dexos 1........and it seems as Kia is not keeping up with the rest of the industry.....at least in the manual writing.

I will stick with Mobil 1 as it is dexos 1 and ILSAC GF 5 certified.
 
#40 ·
It is not that KIA does not keep up with the industry...

GF-4 was introduced to market sometime around 2005 or 2004. It is a very high standard.
GF-5 is very fresh (2010/2011) and market has full year to adjust their oil classes.
Hence, at the time of printing of the manual GF-5 could be still somewhere around, but update was not required.

Besides, why would KIA require you to pour GF-5 if GF-4 is more than satisfactory?

Sure, you can use GF-5 as it is better, but it will not provide any better protection to your engine than GF-4. Not any normal engine... What is the likelihood of your oil going over +150 deg C? Very slim. But GF-4 must withstand this temperature for 100 hours. That is more than racing...


In addition, if you think they do not keep up.
Think of this - brake fluid.
Now you can get DOT 5.1 for about $8/500 ml, DOT3 for about half this price.
BOTH will do the same work in your everyday driving. But KIA could require you to change the brake fluid every two years using DOT 5.1 or you loose warranty. That would piss you off.
 
#41 ·
Besides, why would KIA require you to pour GF-5 if GF-4 is more than satisfactory?
Better fuel economy for their product line. If I had to provide a 100,000 mile power train warranty, I would want that power train protected as much as practical. Using GF5 or dexos 1 oil is easy in North America. There are many certified dexos 1 oils. http://www.gmdexos.com/aboutdexos. html://www.gmdexos.com/licensedbrands/dexos1licensedbrands.html

See the spider diagrams comparing GF4 and 5 on the left of the GF 5 link below. There is also a comparison between GF4, GF5, and dexos1 Main GF-5 Site Home

The great thing is, we have options.
 
#42 ·
Better fuel economy for their product line
maybe, but one must take economical aspect here - what is the outcome to your input

See the spider diagrams comparing GF4 and 5 on the left of the GF 5 link below.
The problem with this spider I have is that it lacks of scale. The difference can be roughly 1-2% and if you blow the graph enough it seems like a lot... just because the scale does not start from zero.


The great thing is, we have options.
Exactly.
You can put what you like as long as it passes or meets manufacturer requirements and they will not deny warranty.
Just, like I said above, consider if the expense is justified.
Say, buying low resistance tires that are 40% more expensive than "regular", but when comparing rolling resistance of those two you will find gain of 2%.
Sure, 2% on span of what 30k miles? Will it save enough petrol to pay off the extra say 250 USD spent on them? Maybe...

Anyway, if you feel better - go for it.
Or spend money on other mods that you might like more.
 
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