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DEVASTATED engine blown...kia won't fix under warranty

105K views 214 replies 38 participants last post by  pemdas1972 
#1 · (Edited)
need some major help,

my sx is 2011 and barely 45k miles on it and the engine gave gave up, rattled like hell, lost all power and torque. Only had it 17months :(

Here's my story...last year changed the oil at a 3rd party around 33k, they said i had an oil leak so took it to kia 3 subsequent times because they couldn't fix the leak properly...so 4 sets of new oil in this last year, 3 under warranty due to the repairs.

Had the car towed to them, they said they HAVENT actually taken the engine apart to see what caused it to fail and are ASSUMING that is was a clogged up oil filter!!! surely impossible after all those changes of oil within 12k miles?! so they are blaming me for lack of maintenance that they won't replace the engine under warranty ::crying:: and then they said they don't change the filter when they emptied and redone the oil...i maybe a woman but i know about cars and what dumbarse changes oil without a new filter in those 3 times?

I am going mad...this is our main car, and with 2 very young kids, we don't have the money to spend what, nearly 5/10k on an engine in a 3yr old car.....especially after spending 25k on what we thought will be a super reliable car with that warranty

Someone help?! hopefully im not the only one thinking wtf?
 
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#2 ·
It sounds as they neglected to do proper maintenance of your property doing oil changes without filter changes.
Essentially, that may have worsened the issue and caused the failure.

Tell them they have to fix it and give you comparable free rental for duration of repairs or you won't have any choices but take legal action against them - the dealer and KIA USA.
And do speak with a lawyer in the mean time.
 
#3 · (Edited)
exactly our thinking ceezer...we've already told them this, and rang customer services but they are sticking to their guns.....our next step is the letter to them to fix it before we pursue legal action...

i've got their loaner car still, will refuse to give it back until my car is fixed

i just can't believe this can be happening :( it's still sitting in the same place the tow truck left it...and that the monkeys haven't bothered to find the real cause! the service guy who rung us (a sexist pig: thats another story) just thinks we are just some stupid randomers....we asked for a technical analysis but all he could say was 'we turned it on, it went bang' i mean REALLY?!
 
#4 ·
I would heavily suggest that you get an independent mechanic to be present when they tear down the engine and get photographs as it happens...
Tell them he's there to protect your rights.... Also contact KIA Motors of America about the problem and make sure they know you will be recording the tear down...

DON'T get an attorney involved with your car right now....As you will back them into a corner and they WILL refuse to go any farther with the car.... It's OK to tell them that you WILL get you attorney involved "if" they don't repair the car (but only "if" they refuse the repair)...

They will be EXTRA careful on the tear down and won't be able to change any items that might support their case of "No Warranty".... If they find there is nothing to support their claims they will have to repair the car...
Dave
 
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#5 ·
need some major help,

my sx is 2011 and barely 45k miles on it and the engine gave gave up, rattled like hell, lost all power and torque. Only had it 17months :(

Here's my story...last year changed the oil at a 3rd party around 33k, they said i had an oil leak so took it to kia 3 subsequent times because they couldn't fix the leak properly...so 4 sets of new oil in this last year, 3 under warranty due to the repairs.

Had the car towed to them, they said they HAVENT actually taken the engine apart to see what caused it to fail and are ASSUMING that is was a clogged up oil filter!!! surely impossible after all those changes of oil within 12k miles?! so they are blaming me for lack of maintenance that they won't replace the engine under warranty ::crying:: and then they said they don't change the filter when they emptied and redone the oil...i maybe a woman but i know about cars and what dumbarse changes oil without a new filter in those 3 times?

I am going mad...this is our main car, and with 2 very young kids, we don't have the money to spend what, nearly 5/10k on an engine in a 3yr old car.....especially after spending 25k on what we thought will be a super reliable car with that warranty

Someone help?! hopefully im not the only one thinking wtf?
Is it possible for you to post scanned copies of the work orders for the leak repairs done under warranty - this might gives us a better idea of what course you should take.

Depending on where the oil leaks were, they may have merely fixed the oil leak without changing the oil, and if so they would not perform a lube service if you did not ask for this and authorise them to do the service, and in that case they may have grounds to refute warranty.

A lot depends on what is written on the work orders.

A word of advice when you eventually get it repaired, avoid the risk of using third party oil filters - there's many non-OEM filters that do not work in these vehicles.
 
#6 ·
The repairs were done on the oil seal of the oil pan itself...they expressly told me that in order to do these repairs they'd have to drain the oil and put new oil in. The guy i prefer to deal with at the dealership (the non sexist) was shocked himself the other day when we had to provide proof of that initial oil change last year...he said to the service manager 'i see 3 clear oil changes on here, enough for a warranty repair, don't you?'..that's when he said they wouldn't have included an oil filter as it was they were warranty repairs!!! You could see that even he was as shocked as we were, but didn't say anything

The last 2 times they kept my car in for 3 days then over a week to do them. Oh, and the fact they wanted proof of the 1st oil change was because on the receipts of 2 of the repairs, they didn't write oil change on them

We have only spoken to a lawyer for now, only planning on including him as a last resort.

In terms of the independent mechanic...where do i find a decent one? Only been in the country nearly 2 years and can't think of where i can find one dependable enough to trust to take an engine apart

Has anybody got the warranty info for our model? In our research, we read that on the latest model ANY oil changes would be performed with a new oil filter....i'm hoping this info means they'be shot themselves in the foot and they don't expect anybody to take any action?!
If the cause is the oil filter (which i highly doubt under the circumstances) could it be crap from when they tried to do these repairs?
 
#8 ·
it was definately a kia specified oil filter from a chain type 'oil changer' lol...i had to pay extra because kia filters are different to regular ones (or so i was told)

Is it worth going to take a look at my car and take photos of the filter in it, aswell as oil levels, engine bay etc....im so worried that they may 'tamper' with the evidence or some such. I feel stupid for thinking it but considering what has happened so far, i don't think it'll surprise me,

Loved my car so much, but i have definitely gone off KIA in all this malarkey :(
 
#9 ·
it was definately a kia specified oil filter from a chain type 'oil changer' lol...i had to pay extra because kia filters are different to regular ones (or so i was told)

Is it worth going to take a look at my car and take photos of the filter in it, aswell as oil levels, engine bay etc....im so worried that they may 'tamper' with the evidence or some such. I feel stupid for thinking it but considering what has happened so far, i don't think it'll surprise me,

Loved my car so much, but i have definitely gone off KIA in all this malarkey :(
There are widely reported problems using those non-OEM filters.
"kia specified oil filter from a chain type 'oil changer'" - those are non-OEM

It sure is worth going there and take your time recording things like the filter installed, the oil level on the dipstick and colour of the oil etc.

The fact that you don't have a written record of servicing and specifically oil and filter changes, puts your claim at risk.
 
#11 · (Edited)
but surely even oem filters will not crap up that quickly?
Correct, OEM filters do not crap out that quickly, but you were using non-OEM filters.
How many miles do you have on the filter currently installed?
We checked the obvious things when the car died...the oil level was still above the 2nd dimple and normal color/consistency!
Your warranty claim is at risk if you don't have proof of lubrication servicing at the manufacturers specified interval.

It sounds like the Kia warranty leak repair paperwork contains no proof or mention that a lubrication service was done, and they were under no obligation to service it when performing the warranty repair.
 
#12 ·
Your warranty claim is at risk if you don't have proof of lubrication servicing at the manufacturers specified interval.

It sounds like the Kia warranty leak repair paperwork contains no proof or mention that a lubrication service was done, and they were under no obligation to service it when performing the warranty repair.[/QUOTE]

That is correct Ron. Of all the car company's I've worked for, none of them pay for any type of oil filter. Even if we have replaced the engine/short block, the customer has to pay for a new oil filter. That being said, the OP should have been asked if they wanted to buy a new oil filter. Good luck on your fight Danimoose, it will be one.
 
#13 ·
Maybe I'm understanding this wrong, but OP says KIA emptied the oil on several occasions to check for the oil leak. Subsequently the engine blows, possibly because of a blocked oil filter. If I got that correct, then I don't see why they didn't change the filter when they changed the oil to do better testing. I'm not an expert but I would say their mechanics goofed up and want the OP to foot the bill of their own negligence.
 
#15 · (Edited)
It sounds like KIA did work on an oil leak repair a number of times, but that's all that they were responsible for, not to perform any routine servicing at the time that they performed the warranty work, ...... in fact they have no history of the servicing on this vehicle seeing as the OP has clearly stated that she has been using a non-KIA lube service centre.
At the time of the warranty repair the oil filter may have only done a couple of hundred miles, ...... why would you change it?

It would have been prudent for KIA to recommend taking care of the routine lubrication service at the time of the warranty work, and who knows, they may have done just that and it was declined.

We haven't heard back from the OP with regards my question "how many miles does she have on the current non-OEM oil filter?" - would it be considered KIA's negligence if this filter has not been changed at the specified interval?

These comments may come across negative, but they are actually made to make the OP more aware of what to expect when she goes into the warranty fight.
 
#14 · (Edited)
The only "Kia specified" oil filter is blue, has "Hyundai," "Kia," and Korean writing on it (lines, circles, & squiggles). Any other oil filter is not specified by Kia. It is specified by whatever company made that filter.

Kia is saying that certain aftermarket oil filters are not adequate and can cause engine damage. We don't know anything more about this than that statement. A defective filter isn't full of crud, it somehow blocks the full flow of oil, perhaps by coming apart inside. An oil filter is good for 7,500 miles (and probably much more). If you didn't have that mileage on the filter, then there would be no reason to change the filter when the oil was dumped to fix the leak. If the tech saw the non-Kia filter, you should have been offered the opportunity to buy a genuine filter, though.

If the aftermarket filter causes the damage, the filter maker is responsible for fixing it. File a claim with them if the filter is indeed the cause.

But, you don't know what the damage is nor what caused it. It appears that Kia Motors America is trying to wriggle out of the warranty claim by just assuming that your oil filter caused the damage.

The engine needs to be opened up to find out what is damaged and why. (A possibility is that sealant used by the techs to fix your leak clogged the oil pump pickup screen, but that needs to be seen.) I don't know who you'd trust in this matter. Your lawyer might have a chat with Kia Motors America's lawyer (nobody at the dealership) and decide on an action that protects you.
Kia Motors America / Headquarters
111 Peters Canyon Road Irvine, CA 92606.
Voice: 949-468-4800 | Fax: 949-468-4515
 
#23 ·
The only "Kia specified" oil filter is blue, has "Hyundai," "Kia," and Korean writing on it (lines, circles, & squiggles). Any other oil filter is not specified by Kia. It is specified by whatever company made that filter.
Can you explain more about the "blue". I get mine from the parts guy here and it comes in an oem kia box but the filter element is yellow and the plastic part is black?
 
#17 · (Edited)
Interesting discussion...

But throwing around the idea that non-oem filters can cause damage is total BS. The engine in my 2004 is from the old 2002 I bought new. 300,00 kms adds up to about 60 oil changes in it's lifetime, only ever had 2 kia filters on it - one from the factory and another after the timing belt took out the engine. I have personally used every filter on the market in Canada but generally stick to fram.

Been running syntec since 10,000 kms. When the engine blew due to timing belt failure, there was zero service record at Kia - I had been doing all my own oil changes and servicing. They told me if there had been any sludge build up, my warranty would be void - they covered it without issue. And I was there when they tore the engine down.

I since had the top valve cover off due to leakage at about 240,000, still zero sludge. Still on the original oil pump.


If complete oil change including oil filter was declined, then the OP has an issue. Still find it funny that they wouldn't just spin on a new filter for the sake of troubleshooting.

Do be there during the engine teardown. I'd personally go over to see what kind of oil filter is spun on at the moment and take pictures.
 
#20 · (Edited)
But throwing around the idea that non-oem filters can cause damage is total BS. .
Emphasis on the "can" - it was not stated as fact, but a potential cause, and that it sure is.

There's more than enough reports of issues with certain non-OEM filters, that you've goto ask yourself if its worth the risk.

Regardless of the make of filter used, if it is way past its replacement date/mileage , then you have a problem.

How many miles do you have on the filter currently installed?
 
#18 ·
Dani, one more thing---have a 4 ounce oil sample drawn and analyzed. It will show lots of metals in the oil due to the damage, but if it shows an acceptable level of oxidation, viscosity, and additives remaining, then you have proof that the oil was not at fault. There are local testing labs for the oil sample (check with any truck repair shop) or look up Blackstone Labs, about $25. You say that the oil looks good. With the analysis, you'll have proof that it is good.

Icy, what you say about the oil filters should be the case, but we know it isn't. And, we don't know why. Several years ago Fram was making filters for certain Cummins engines where parts of the filters broke loose and caused engine damage. Fram redesigned those filters...after they paid for some engine rebuilds. Fram, or Champion Labs (now owned by the same owner as Fram) or another filter maker could have produced some filters that either did not meet adequate specs for these engines or came apart. Quick lube shops pay less than a dollar apiece for the filters, and have a few filters listed to cover many models to reduce their inventory, so problems can happen.
 
#19 ·
Icy, what you say about the oil filters should be the case, but we know it isn't. And, we don't know why. Several years ago Fram was making filters for certain Cummins engines where parts of the filters broke loose and caused engine damage.
Fully agreed, filters from certain brands have suffered QC losses and have caused issue, but for the most it's the broad spectrum brush used by many car companies that we are talking about. "Only use our OEM".

Kia aftermarket in Canada is nearly non existent :(
 
#22 · (Edited)
no...i was never asked if i wanted a new oil filter when they needed to replace the oil in the pan...on both of the last times i had the 'card' ready for a new oil change to be done but when i was told they were gonna change the oil in it anyway, i didn't. What regular person would think 'oh i will need a new oil filter' when a dealership service centre had changed the oil 3 bloomin times....ask ANY mechanic or any car minded person, it's always advised to change the filter when new oil is put in, so the fact that they didn't in those 3 times is the problem! How was i to know that they DIDN'T replace the filter?!

Like i said originally RON i have only had the car for 14k miles, the original filter was done 2k after that. It's advised and were told there should new OIL at every 7500miles...on that argument... there was 3 new oils, so average every 4k miles, so there shouldn't have been any build up, kia filter or other...

But bs aside, the main thing is that they still haven't diagnosed why the engine blew in the first place...assumptions do not prove anything! and i bet you anything that the cause will not be anything to do with the oil filter itself
 
#24 · (Edited)
no...i was never asked if i wanted a new oil filter when they needed to replace the oil in the pan...on both of the last times i had the 'card' ready for a new oil change to be done but when i was told they were gonna change the oil in it anyway, i didn't. What regular person would think 'oh i will need a new oil filter' when a dealership service centre had changed the oil 3 bloomin times....ask ANY mechanic or any car minded person, it's always advised to change the filter when new oil is put in, so the fact that they didn't in those 3 times is the problem! How was i to know that they DIDN'T replace the filter?!

Like i said originally RON i have only had the car for 14k miles, the original filter was done 2k after that. It's advised and were told there should new OIL at every 7500miles...on that argument... there was 3 new oils, so average every 4k miles, so there shouldn't have been any build up, kia filter or other...
So you have 12k miles on the current filter - what interval does your owners manual say the filter should changed?
Is it possible that the time of the oil top-ups at each warranty leak repair, the filter was not yet due for replacement?
But bs aside, the main thing is that they still haven't diagnosed why the engine blew in the first place...assumptions do not prove anything! and i bet you anything that the cause will not be anything to do with the oil filter itself
Not sure what gives you the confidence that the oil filter is not implicated.

If you'd prefer no further debate on this thread, let us know and one of the forum MOD's can close it.
 
#26 ·
Thread reopened - just like to remind all that personal comments are not permitted - state your personal opinions and experience, but refrain from personal comments.
 
#29 ·
The original poster has an SX. That would be a 3.5L V6 with a cartridge filter. They're actually made by Mahle and have no Korean markings on them (though they ARE made in Korea).

I buy the Mahle versions when I can't get to a dealer. They are visibly identical to the dealer filter.
 
#30 ·
we will be going to get some bits out of the car we need aswell as taking photos of engine bay, oil levels and siphon a bit of it for testing, also marking it to try and make sure they cannot tamper with the oil filter before the next step in the process.

After ALOT of research and reading what others have gone through, this exact same issue with the engine even lasted with the original sorento and sedona, and also with our model too....and surprise surprise the issue is NOT to do with the oil filter :laugh:

Let's just hope we can get somewhere with this now
 
#32 ·
After ALOT of research and reading what others have gone through, this exact same issue with the engine even lasted with the original sorento and sedona, and also with our model too....and surprise surprise the issue is NOT to do with the oil filter :laugh:
Could you provide some links? I didn't know the V6 had a problem with seizing up, but I'd really like to learn about it.
 
#31 · (Edited)
soooo...went to do our stuff to find that the oil filter looks fine...no sludge or caked up oil in or around it, but as expected it was FULL of metal shavings.

What annoys me even more now...i keep my car pristine and only had 1 dent at the front of my car...they've bloomin dented one of my rear doors :( i know i cannot prove it was them but GRRRRRRR

Also to add to the fact they cannot maintain cars...we took the loaner car on the motorway for a decent drive and the tracking is way off!!! it feels like i'm driving in high winds at speed!!!
 
#35 · (Edited)
Now that was a good find DaniMoose thanks. There's some scary stuff in that report, especially the loss of steering after the crank sprocket bolt snaps Including your post on the class action comments, I counted three 2011 or up sorentos where the engine failed.

If this is the case that our newer cars came with the weaker bolts, I couldn't sell my car in good conscious and pass this over to the newer owner, but what I wouldn't mind doing is pick the knowledge of the moderators and parts guys on this forum where to get a much stronger bolt and get it fixed myself.

I belong to several motorcycle forums and bikes have serious problems that manufactures don't address as well even when they know a catastrophic engine failure can occur. We search for ways to fix this or someone smart out there has fixed it with a machined part and we all buy it. What we could at least do on this forum is find out for sure if the sprocket bolt is the culprit, make sure we get our hands on a manufacturer that makes a much stronger sheer resistant one and half the battle is won in my view, rather than sweep it under the rug and hope nothing happens.
 
#36 ·
definitely...and if this has seriously been an ongoing problem since 2002 then why the hell have kia not done anything about changing these bolts and persisted with screwing innocent people time and time again..... i am so glad that the engine did not blow up doing 65/70 with my family in it

if it does go to court then we will persist with making it profilic enough that kia demand another recall or give those other kia victims peace of mind that they aren't to blame!!!
I don't think it'll be easy, but someone needs to do it!!
 
#37 ·
I'm glad too it did not happen at high speed. Unfortunately it seems all manufacturers have big things to hide to protect their profits. I sincerely hope you get to the bottom of this and get all your money and peace of mind back. For the rest of us, hopefully the mods don't close this thread so we can follow the updates to make sure what really happened and if the rest of us can prevent it from occurring again. Just based on your link before, it sure looks like it could be a weak sprocket bolt/pin that is the weak point. Not going to use my sorento for towing any time soon until I find out more that's for sure.
 
#38 ·
The links we've found have given us a bit of peace of mind, aswell as actually finding out that our oil filter and oil are perfectly fine.

I am betting Kia will still stick to their guns or come up with another stupid assumption...but all it will do is bump it closer to getting sorted in court, and half of me doesn't want that hassle if godforbid we lose, we will be bankrupt but if we win then the whole of north america can have peace of mind.

I don't know what i'd do if they just stump up at fix it...i don't think i can trust them enough anymore, especially as mine blew up at 45k, who's to say it won't happen again?!
 
#39 ·
I know what you mean. Lets hope they pin point 100% why your motor blew up. I read that post on your link where the guy name "lol" mentioned changing the balancer sprocket bolt from the sorento with the much stronger one from the sedona. That was for the 2002 to 2009 models. Anyone here know if that would work on the 2011 up models or are they using the same bolts now?
 
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