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#1 (permalink) Old 06-23-2005, 04:54 PM
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Hi folks

Just thought (because of what I'd read here) that I'd let you know the latest I've heard from Kia regarding the 4WD sytem on the Sorento (I've got a 2.5 diesel ordered and on it's way from Korea but was concerned about some things I'd read). Seems some people are suggesting that the 4WD on auto setting (and maybe even on low setting) only transfer torque to the front when you have your foot on the gas, a situation that could be VERY dicey going down a steep slippery slope (evidently it was suggested that the Hyundia Terracans had this problem and the same control gear). So, I asked the question of Kia in New Zealand and they sent me some technical literature that shows actual torque transfer under acceleration AND braking (ABS activation causes 30% torque to the front wheels) as well as everything in between (varying % to the front from 10% to 50% depending on circumstances). It also shows that in LOW the torque is 50/50 split ALWAYS (even in fail-safe).

So, it would seem this is all a load of worry about nothing and I thought others might want to hear this.

The diesel is new to New Zealand and is the best bang for your buck by miles, can't wait for mine to arrive next month !!!!!

By the way I've just purchased a self-dimming mirror through e-bay, anybody fitted one of these ? any problems ?

Cheers

Derek

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2005 2.5 CRDi Auto Sorento sold
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#2 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 01:29 AM
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Thanks Derek, good positive info.

I know that you will be pleased when she arrives.
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#3 (permalink) Old 06-27-2005, 02:56 PM
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Hello Derek.

In Spain both companies (Kia and Hyundai) have recognized the problem with TOD 4wd systems. In 4H and 4L the front axle is conected only if you are pressing the accelerator pedal. We have a lot of well documented evidences and testimonies.
You can easily prove it ...
Kia is on the way to offer a solution ... ¡to the Spanish users! in the form of a "transfer lock" button.
Meanwhile, be carefull on snow roads.

Saludos.
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#4 (permalink) Old 06-27-2005, 04:19 PM
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I have the feeling from what I read that the problem only exists on the models with 3 position switching 2H 4H 4L, not on the Auto 4L models. Anybody confirm or deny that ? I'm confused !!

Thanks

Derek

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#5 (permalink) Old 06-27-2005, 06:08 PM
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Hello Derek,

the problem is in vehicles equiped with TOD (Torque on Demand) 4wd system.
These vehicles have a switch with only 2 positions (4H Auto and 4L).
In Spain, salesmen used to say that in 4L the transfer case was locked and traction (and retention) was divided 50-50 (front-rear). This is only true when you are pressing the accelerator. In Europe this is a major issue due to that automatic transmision (gear box) are not very popular and the usual technic for descending is to use the engine retention instead that only use the brake. This way to drive is that has reveal the problem. As you probably knows, the supplier of the Sorento (and Terracan) 4wd system is an american company (Borg Warner) whose "natural" market is the USA vehicle equiped with automatic transmision (gear boxes).

Saludos from Madrid
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#6 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 12:18 AM
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It works just like juanav says.
I only have to say that the problem occurs under more or less 1.800 rpm. At higher speeds it works right. So if it ever happens yo have to accelerate and you wil get torke in both axels again.
In Spain Kia and Hiunday are working to solve it at the moment.
For further information visit this site (in spanish)

http://miarroba.com/foros/ver.php?foroid=2...=3230686&pag=10
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#7 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 04:20 PM
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This is getting more confusing as time goes by, Kia New Zealand denies any problem and says that the unit picks up the difference in speed between the front and rear hubs and keeps them the same by transferring torque, therefore nothing to do with the amount of engine power, acellerator or whatever, the reason that they can't pick it up on a stationary vehicle being "no hub movement means no signal, means no transfer".

Anyway, in desperation I've written to Borg Warner themselves to see if they can confirm or refute the problem. Frankly if the problem really exists it's a big one for me and would probably stop me owning the vehicle at all. The last thing I need is a vehicle being purchased for its safety in snow and off-road etc turning into a two wheel drive sledge down hill !!!!!

Derek

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#8 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 08:48 AM
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I also could not believe that problem when I first encountered the problem. I am lucky to have the normal transfer case and not the TOD.

Kia New Zealand’s answer to you says it all “and keeps them the same by transferring torque“ if you do not press the accelerator then there is no torque to transfer!

Simple test, turn on the Sorento, put it in 4L find a way to put all 4 wheels in the air (probably the dealer can help) and try to rotate the front wheels, if only the front wheels rotate and the rear wheels are stationary then you have a problem! the meaning is that it does not engage when the hubs are turning in different speeds.

The only solution, as mentioned above, is to install a switch that will lock the TOD’s clutch in 4L mode.

Some one else thought about it a while ago (pay attention that it is a Borg and Warner transfer case):
http://www.planetisuzoo.com/articles.htm/109
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#9 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 12:05 PM
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I must be missing something but here in the states one model is a 4WD that has HI and Lo and the other model is the EX which uses the TOD but our TOD system is set up ( the knob has 2 positions Auto and Lo) so that when you are driving in the Auto position the front gets about 15% power and the rear get 85% but upon slippage, is where the computer kicks in and the power goes to 50/50 and side to side. This TOD system is a Borg Warner unit used on may vehicles. Now if you engage the Lo position this locks up the differential and the Sorento becomes a rock crawler. Beleive me I have driven on some real nastty back roads nice and slow and carefull or my wife wuld kill me if I banged up her baby. The Auto position works just as good on many tank trails and as well as in the snow ( I live in Connecticut where we get some nasty snow storms and blizzards and our Sorento has performed flawless)
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#10 (permalink) Old 06-29-2005, 04:07 PM
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Thanks for that. Gets more and more interesting, seems people are told all sorts of things as regards lock-up or not, % front and rear etc etc but the tests seem to prove that all that talk in the world doesn't mean it's happening !! Appears to me that if somebody has shown it doesn't work and gone to a LOT of trouble and expense to fit a switch to overcome it (see the article refered to above) then there's at least SOME truth to all the rumours.

Still to hear from Borg Warner, maybe one of you guys in the states could try and get an answer out of them if you have the time and interest, it's very difficult from here.

Cheers and thanks again for your thoughts to date.

Derek

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