Intriguing problem - engine rough idle & hesitation - P0300 - Kia Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Intriguing problem - engine rough idle & hesitation - P0300

Hi everyones, Im newly registered here after a couples year of reading helpfull tips here.
This forum has been helpfull since I got my 2004 Rio RXV with/AT two years ago.

After a couples day of search here, I did not find a very similar case to my problem.

# 1 Symptoms/problems
The car as 85,000 km on the odo (50,000 miles).
So, here it is...It started in beginning of August 2011..rolling on the highway by a beautifull summer noon, speed was around 60mph / 100 kmh then I sense a sudden hesitation in the car motion.
It was for a very brief period like 0.1 second. Like if I would have very rapidly have let off pressure on gas pedal and then reapply it.
It did it 3-4 times during the 75km trip home.
Let me tell you I was stressing as my newborn was in his childseat and with no cell phone on board.
My girlfrien used the car intown for 1 weed until the Check engine came on.


#1 Fix
I sent the car to my thrusted mechanic garage, he read the codes P0302, P0303 ( misfire cylinder 2 & 3)
So I told him to suggest me something...we opted to start with the spark plugs first and also erase the codes.
The car ran fine except for still small hesitation while rolling.

#2 Symptoms/problems
One week later We are now mid August... my girlfriend used the car to go to his parents in the neighbor town ( again 75km ).
Almost arrived at destination the car started to hesitate like never before...a lot of stumbles and ckeck engine lighted again....but this time the engine was running with the computer in safe mode so not much power.
Very frighting when it happen on the highway with a kid onboard.

#2 Fix
There a friend mechanic read the code and still P0302, P0303 ( misfire cylinder 2 & 3). So he tested the plug wires with a splash of water just to find they were no good anymore.
So changed the wires....damn problem was still there engine was running very rough. So we did changed the coils pack....that did the job car ran great.


#3 Symptoms/problems
So, coil, wire, plugs are changed, no check engine. My girlfriend decided to come back home. Midway (km 20 of 75 ) Hesitation again...Damn and Damn !!...the mecanic told me the only thing he can think of is bad gas.

#3 Fix
I did put a can of gas treatment in thank with fresh gas.

#4 Symptoms
Since 1 week from now the car is acting stangely, sometimes it is running ok than hesitate a bit. But 4 days ago it started to idle very roughly when in D or R. When arriving at a stop or red light, SOMETIMES the engine want to stall. Then a couples minutes after the check engine light on.
When it want to stall if i put it in Neutral and give it a bit of gas is help to keep the rev. If i dont do that , the engine keep reving slower and slower with a lot of vibrations ( like a harley davidson engine on idle). Keep in mind that it is an intermitent problem.
The check engine code is P0300 (multiple cylinder misfire )

#4 Fix
I brought a spray can of Throttle body cleaner that i used completly through the mass airflow as per the recommendation of my thrusted mechanic....did not seem to help a lot but it seem the problem bay be lessen than before.
So he suggest me to unplug the car battery to erase the code..and possibly reset the computer. My mechanic suspected the bad idling is comming from the SAFE MODE in the computer.
That fix WORK. Since the 2 last days, car go well for 4-5 km then bad idling start and car as difficulty reving and has no power, I just reset the computer with the battery unplug method then Im good for another between 1 to 20 km... again and again.


Now im seeking for help from the community.

Thanks in advance.
Daniel


Last edited by DANBAT; 08-31-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 07:29 PM
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Wow, one of those irritating things that could be a single "hard to find" problem, or a group of problems that just coincidentally appeared. Almost sounds like a bad connection somewhere but if all you're getting is misfire codes, I would look at the crank sensor and cam sensors first. Pull them and Clean them and check the connectors for corrosion. Check engine ground to body. On my 2004 Base Rio it is on passenger side from body to timing cover bracket on engine. What did you gap the plugs at? A lot of posters here agree the gap needs to be on the low end of the factory recommendation (about .031"). Mine worked best at .027. If you have a fuel issue or leak, you should be getting a few other codes besides the misfires (O2, lean or rich, intake leak, CAT issue). A plugged fuel filter, or injector or 2, might show up as an intermittent misfire, but the way it runs okay for a few miles then appears out of nowhere makes me think wet/bad connectors, or bad ground somewhere.
I got 303/304 codes when my plugs were gapped too high. I also saw 301/303 codes a couple times before I discovered I was one notch off on the exhaust cam timing (after replacing my timing belt). Maybe you ought to double check your timing...??? And the next thing that comes to mind is a compression check just to verify something odd isn't happening inside the engine.
Hmmmm... check ECU connections/ fuses/ battery voltage, and connectors. Load test it. I know I am reaching a little but I have read all sorts of crazy things happening with a bad battery or connectors. Worth a look....
Go to kiatechinfo.com and register and study their troubleshooting guides and do the easy checks first. Maybe you'll get lucky and see something there that applies to your situation.
Anyone else see something I'm not?
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 07:35 PM
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Oh yes! and the Idle air control valve will mess up your idle! Clean that thing first! It is mounted on the front of the throttle body under the air cleaner assembly behind the ignition coils. Take it off and clean it out with carb cleaner until the little valve gate inside slides easily. Thanks Ronjohn, I heard you shout that all the way across the US!!
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Kevster, i will try your suggestions. And again, my problems are really on and off. Goes well for short time than goes bad, then I reset it goes well , etc...

p.s. I was reading a thread from you:
http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-2g-2001...ower-poor.html

I saw you seen it all...thanks for the advices I'll let you know of next events.

Daniel
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-01-2011, 09:58 PM
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Hey daniel, Kevster is right on track like he says WOW it could be anything. Do what kevster say's check the cam and crank sensor and fuel pressure and please don't forget about cleaning the IAC valve it might help and the electrical connections to the ecm. My problem started with a p0304 and p0300 turned out to be a blocked 2nd cat after all i did fuel pump , fuel filter plugs , wires pcv and hoses. It didn't go away untill i broke out the 2nd cat (loss of power), but you don't have that issue. Check out Kia Global Information System (KGIS) I don't think its free in canada might have to pay it can help. But give it a try listen to kevster he has been there and done that I wish you luck with your problem. Reguards ronjohn once again thanks for your insight kevster

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-12-2011, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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An update to everybody. My sparkplugs are gapped all right. 0.039 to 0.043 as recommended.

I actually found the cause to my symptoms...
When the engine is running rough, Im actually running on only two cylinders. I have no power going to the connector pluged in the ingition coil 2-3.

So I tought I had a bad connector, so chopped it to change it with a junkyard one....BUT I tryed to mesure voltage on the chopped wires when ignition is ON but there is no juice !!!

So im left closer to find the real problem. But now the symptoms are no more on and off ... it now only run on 2 cylinders.

Does someone know where the power to this connector is coming ?

Can the problem be the ecm or a relay or the Ignition control module embedded in the ecm ?


Thanks again.

Daniel

Last edited by DANBAT; 09-12-2011 at 10:36 PM.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-13-2011, 08:20 AM
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Daniel...
You seem to be doing a good job at diagnosing your car. The next step would be tracing the wiring harness from the coil to the ECM. "kiatechinfo.com" should be available to you in Canada. You need to be running windows (XP/Vista/7) and Internet Explorer (6 or higher) and have Adobe SVG (scaled vector graphics) installed.
On kia's site there is a complete wiring diagram available showing plugs/sockets/connectors. Sounds like you have a corrosion problem in your wiring. The ECM does control the coils but they don't fail very often.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-16-2011, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Problem is fixed....guess what was the problem !

It was a wiring problem. The white wire going the the connector for the coil 2-3 was splittting due to stess and fatigue. It broke at the right angle corner exactly where the wires harness attatch to the radiator fan shroud. I suspect a bad design because the engine move front and back due to torqe and the main harness is attached the front body of the car so wires have to flex at all times. So I welded back another wire and car run now like a new one...sould say like a normal 86,000km car.

What a lot of headaches due to the fack that the wire was very slowly splitting with problems becoming worst and worst...at the end problem was easier to find as the wire was completly separated in the insulator.

Last edited by DANBAT; 09-16-2011 at 08:15 PM.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2011, 12:40 PM
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Hey RonJohn..
Here's another one for your Rio "book"....

DANBAT...
Sorry you had to spend the money before finding the problem...SEE... your registering helped! We ARE glad you joined our community...
Don't stay away!
Dave
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2011, 11:28 PM
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Just wrote it down in my service manual dave. Daniel thanks for sharing the info and glad you got it fixed. Also recheck your spark plug gap should be .027-.031 Reguards ronjohn

Last edited by ronjohn; 09-17-2011 at 11:56 PM.
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