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2003 Rio won't stay running, ..parts replaced of ...

9K views 21 replies 4 participants last post by  budbd 
#1 ·
So my 2003 kia rio with 1.6L engine and five speed manual and air conditioning 4 door,...I've owned it for several years as a spare vehicle and I like the fuel economy,....then last week suddenly the engine shut off while driving,..start it, runs for about five seconds then shuts off,....I replaced the fuel filter, fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator, ..I already had those items to install for total reliability when going out of town,...but obviously it is something else. It shows no codes at all,...so it doesn't give me an idea where to go.. And I don't have an aftermarket repair manual,...they don't appear to make them for these apparently.

So,.....who else had this problem,...good thing I have ample repair skills, I even have me a fluke 88 automotive multimeter,...I figure there are tests I can make,...unless its ignition module of course. Dunno, at this point
 
#2 ·
What's the mileage, service history, last oil change, if it has a timing belt when last was it changed, .......



Please update your profile detail, .......at least location and vehicle.



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#3 ·
A quick thought....
Check the primary wiring of the coil packs.... The plastic connectors disintegrate and the wiring to the coils becomes very intermittent...
Dave
 
#4 ·
Yeah, I can't figure out how to edit, so I have modified my location and kia rio car,.....my mileage is 143,256 miles,.....oil was shamefully changed over a year ago with synthetic oil,...probably about three thousand miles, maybe even four thousand miles ago...due to be changed with the supplies I bought(synthetic oil and regular filter) and ramps,....and the timing belt,...oh yeah, I know about the interference engine issues,....I believe it was changed before I bought it, like at the required interval, I verified it was newer looking, but I have a complete timing belt kit with rollers I have been meaning to put on along with a new water pump while I am at it, errrrr, before I wait too long. I have some health issues from old injuries plaguing me, so I aint as quick to do major work like I used to be,.....this whole thing is like wakeup call for me, I mean, I had alot of parts I bought, cheaply, and hadn't put them on, and others, and the oil and filter.
 
#5 ·
Yeah, I can't figure out how to edit, so I have modified my location and kia rio car,.....my mileage is 143,256 miles,.....oil was shamefully changed over a year ago with synthetic oil,...probably about three thousand miles, maybe even four thousand miles ago...due to be changed with the supplies I bought(synthetic oil and regular filter) and ramps,....and the timing belt,...oh yeah, I know about the interference engine issues,....I believe it was changed before I bought it, like at the required interval, I verified it was newer looking, but I have a complete timing belt kit with rollers I have been meaning to put on along with a new water pump while I am at it, errrrr, before I wait too long. I have some health issues from old injuries plaguing me, so I aint as quick to do major work like I used to be,.....this whole thing is like wakeup call for me, I mean, I had alot of parts I bought, cheaply, and hadn't put them on, and others, and the oil and filter.
What "regular" oil filter?

I suggest checking the timing belt condition and that the timing marks are still correct.
 
#8 ·
Yeah, thanks, I am unsure if the engine has variable valve timing, and the oil filter thing,...wow, I had no idea that there were such problems with oil filters in this day and age, ...likely the filter, (soon to be changed like during this service, errrr if I can ever get the engine warm),..likely it was bought as a fram, I seem to always get those, but who knows, ...I should change the oil by coaking it onto the ramps up front while it runs. I haven't had alot of time to work on it, I actually, the vehicle broke down the very evening of my mothers' passing last week, the worste luck, except that I have a untrustworthy older truck as a second vehicle,...for now.

Yeah, I have a replacement fram extra guard filter and synthetic oil. This car is so "base model", it would be very interesting if it had something so fancy, or seemingly so fancy as variable valve timing, but I'm not completely up on what they use in vehicles these days. I get an opportunity to finally get to it later today and through the weekend, getting some ideas now,...gearing up for the final push of what to buy in parts.
 
#9 ·
Oh, and this vacuum leak thing, I should really look close for vacuum leaks.. The only thing that I can add in is that three weeks ago I did a bad thing really, ....I had a MAF code, and I have already changed that thing in the last couple years and minimal miles, so I bought a can of spray cleaner for maf sensor, and sprayed it, trying to clean anything,...while still attached to vehicle,...likely according to what I read on the can afterwards, something I was not supposed to do, .....you know, it having trouble starting and running after the spray, like it had to "burn" the spray that didn't evaporate off. Maybe I have myself to blame, ...maybe I ruined something, a sensor, or ....or worse. Almost makes me wonder if something done to catalytic converter,....maybe its plugged up, and can't run,...would almost makes some sort of sense of the exhaust was plugged up, and shutting off the engine.
 
#11 ·
Do you think a damaged O2 sensor would be causing my problems? I always thought that they went bad, then the engine went rich on fuel. Well, I had changed that O2 sensort about four to four and a half thousand miles ago,..but yeah, the thought crossed my mind when I read the maf sensor spray cleaner can,....a big whoops. I should have just ordered another maf sensor when I got the code again,...they seem near dirt cheap.
 
#13 ·
I am figuring if I had to guess what the problem is that it would be the crankshaft position sensor, ....it would be nice to put on the new timing belt kit while I was at replacing that part,...I checked for voltage at the fuel pump relay and get battery voltage at two spots,...so the car is unlucky 13, years old, and 143,000 miles,...probably would be best to replace the coil assembly as well, ....I will check for vacuum leak of course, hard to do since it won't stay running, but if I spray something around the intake plenum, and notice a change, or if I actually see something loose,...well, looks like my car will go a low level rebuild to like new standards,...I am considering changing out to new at least four sensors/parts,....crankshaft position, throttle position sensor, I think this has a knock sensor, coil pack, I should even plan for replacing the fuel purge valve,...I mean, I have taken this thing on two hour long and one hundred mile away doctors visits,....the thought of this happening or something similar scares me.....

Say,....anyone know right off what that big box near the fuel tank in the back is for,...I forget what I read about that,...seems it does something for vapor at the gas stations for fill up, or unsure,....I actually need to find that free download or pdf of the manual for this car,...I mean, a couple decades ago I took professional automotive courses, and back then the instructor, and old salt and former drag racing and car enthusiast out of southern california said that even though cars were all becoming all electronic in the nineties,...the basics were the same as older non electronic,..."fuel, air, ignition",...once a person understands those three basics, ...errrrr, if I am repeating them right after all these years,...it can apply even from now on. I'd just about get me a spare main ecu "brain", I think I could get another 100,000 miles out of this car with regular synthetic oil changes. The transaxle was a replacement unit fresh when I bought it used,..along with the drive axles, likely the support bearings too.
 
#14 ·
It's hard to follow the "wall of text" - a little structure would help lots.

You stand a chance of throwing all sorts of parts at it, .......and still not cure the problem.
 
#15 ·
Yeah, I went ahead and ordered a bunch of parts, if anything to make sure I don't get stranded over a hundred miles away when I go there. I ordered a crankshaft position sensor for $25, and they listed a camshaft angle position sensor, so I ordered that too considering a I have a new timing belt/rollers kit ready to go for installation, that will put me ahead for a long time, or 50,000 to 60,000 miles......I believe that could be the problem, one of those.....then I ordered a map sensor, a throttle position sensor(to make sure of reliability), and a new coil pack, AND a knock sensor. I will also check for vacuum leak, but at this point, I know I should have done this when I first bought the car used in 2013, cause I drove back then hundreds of miles away to Portland Oregon from southern Oregon, ....all on faith.

Sure, I worry about all that and then same thing, same problem,...wow, after that and no vacuum leak, it would be only one thing, ....the main computer, and I think if that was too expensive new I would go used for that part. I've done some timing belts in the past, but on on a dual overhead cam, ...it worries me, but I will be careful, and will watch youtube,....again for a video.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Well, its been two months since my kia conked out, ...since I have replaced the timing belt and rollers, water pump and front crankshaft seal, with appropriate alternator and power steering belts, finished that up a couple days ago, I have trouble getting around to working on this vehicle. I also replaced the knock sensor and torqued it to value, replaced the crankshaft sensor out of the transaxle bell housing(it looked chewed up, but a replacement didn't cure the original problem),...replaced the camshaft sensor,......vehicle still wants to cut out, it only got a little better by revving the engine to keep it going but eventually dies out.

I think its the catalytic converter/s,.....vehicle has 143,000+ miles, and I doubt the main exhaust manifold catalytic converter has been replaced, I don't mind trying to afford to replace it, just wished it was a straight pipe there but there are those two O2 sensors that supposedly need a catalytic converter between them, otherwise the rear cat converter could be the only catalytic converter, .....once replaced by a shop, I mean, I don't see why these need two catalytic converters, bugs me,...there are so many choices for manifold converter, mainly price, there is seemingly a affordable one in Canada, but I suspect it could take over two weeks to get here to the west coast of Oregon. There are the magnflow style with slim converters and header like construction,.....but that doesn't solve the issue that my vehicle is many miles out of town, actually almost twenty miles away from the muffler shop. The rear catalytic converter is welded in, .....maybe original, but hard to believe it is original, I frankly would like to eliminate that cat converter and replace the manifold converter, we don't have emission testing, and I think one converter does the job.
 
#17 ·
I didn't see if the car stalling happens while driving or only during idle...
Have you taken time and cleaned out (or replaced) the IAC (idle air control) valve...
They get plugged up and then the car won't idle... At your mileage this would be one of the first things I'd check...
Remove, clean, re-install..
Dave
 
#18 ·
Well, sure, it likes to cut out at idle,....but at revving too, as if backpressure builds up, but sure, I can start the vehicle, allow it to just idle, and maybe three to four seconds later engine dies, and engine can be immediately started and start the whole process. Maybe I should take this idle air control out or whatever for cleaning,....I should have just bought a replacement. When I am revving the engine at about three thousand rpm, it struggles to stay going, I can somewhat pump the gas pedal and keep it running, as long as those rpm's are up there high. I have to be careful on spending to much money, I am on unemployment compensation, and blown alot of money already, BUT, this problem, if exhaust, I blame myself, I KNEW that clogged catalytic converters could happen eventually, and I am real confused by the exhaust system, ....I swear it might be original, the exhaust pipes, ...its possible, I do believe the catalytic converters are original. I really don't believe I need the rear catalytic converter if I end up with on on the side of the engine.

Exhaust catalytic converter I have seen, well, in Canada, there is one listed on ebay at $188, but could take two weeks to get it. Then there are the magnaflow that seem performance, they can be had from california for at least $456, but then there is the rest of the exhaust, my muffler seems okay, seemingly, like it was replaced at one time, maybe I need to inspect it close. Technically, like I said, I am twenty miles away from a muffler shop anyway, and I had already used insurance to have it towed once two months ago, but it was only six miles away from home.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I went ahead and just ordered me a cheap Idle air control valve for bout $16 off ebay out of california, close to where I am at in southern oregon obviously. I have bought so many minor parts to refurbish this car for reliability, I should have just bought that aleady. Besides that, I worry if, from reading, that taking it off for "cleaning" that there is a gasket, and the gasket should be replaced, and not with silicon sealer generally, so to avoid a problem, just getting a new unit,.....I mean, I would like to drive this car, after fixed, worry free quite a while. I mean, maybe I should just go ahead and remove it to see if it is like buried in carbon, I don't have any carburetor cleaner left from a different project, won't be at a parts store for several days. Likely the exhaust system will cost me a big chunk of change, .....money.


AND I ORDERED a Magnaflow high flow header/performance catalytic converter exhaust manifold assembly, out of california from a company direct who advertises on ebay, instead of $456, it was discounted to $433,......cheaper than oem or what was quoted at a parts store,......MAY not actually cure the problem, I took out both oxygen sensors, engine seemed to be easier to keep running, but unsure, with those two holes opened up, I think that would be enough to "open" enough a clogged exhaust, BUT, the catalytic converters on there now, I am very sure they are original....I have plans for the other un needed catalytic converter, if anything I might have to cut it out to be able to drive to a muffler shop,......twenty miles away, I live rural out of town, and my favorite exhaust place, or most of them are all in a general area about 15 to 20 miles away.

There might be something to his idle air control, I wanted to take it apart but it will get replaced reguardless, and I also worry about the main ecm computer working properly, I mean, I worry it is malfunctioned somehow and causing this whole thing, but at least I am upgrading this old car for another 60,000 miles of service, where that could take me several hundred miles away every so often. Sometimes I wished I just had another 1968 volkswagen bug with a points distributor, several quarts of extra oil to add in over the months and travel, a small amount of tools for adjusting valves, and my fingers crossed all the time that a semi truck didn't drive right over me.

$$$$$$So far though, the parts replaced with new are as follows,....coil pack, camshaft sensor, crankshaft sensor, knock sensor(torqued to spec), timing belt, belt rollers, water pump, front crankshaft oil seal, .......parts I have to replace new but haven't yet......purge valve, map sensor, tps sensor, ordered a $25 maf sensor cause I don't trust the one I cleaned with cleaner that was replaced two years ago, ordered a idle air control valve for $16, and I have a magnaflow manifold.catalytic converter on order to arrive later this week or monday.$$$$
 
#20 ·
$$$$$$So far though, the parts replaced with new are as follows,....coil pack, camshaft sensor, crankshaft sensor, knock sensor(torqued to spec), timing belt, belt rollers, water pump, front crankshaft oil seal, .......parts I have to replace new but haven't yet......purge valve, map sensor, tps sensor, ordered a $25 maf sensor cause I don't trust the one I cleaned with cleaner that was replaced two years ago, ordered a idle air control valve for $16, and I have a magnaflow manifold.catalytic converter on order to arrive later this week or monday.$$$$
Do you have an estimated total cost? Have you noticed any improvement at all since installing all these extra parts?

I have a 2003 Kia Rio Cinco (Green), and I am about to dig into the thing and do something similar to what you've done. :nerd:
 
#21 · (Edited)
Okay, my car is running of course and I am driving it,.....I believe what part was bad was the MAF sensor, there had been a code three weeks before breakdown and I used maf sensor cleaner then and later there was no code for maf sensor confusingly,.....something that had less than 5000 miles and had been replaced previous. I replaced the Idle Air Control and the MAF sensor upon completion of the timing belt/rollers/water pump replacement, had replaced the chewed up crankshaft sensor, the camshaft sensor and the knock sensor(torqued to spec), and it would still do same thing,. so the maf sensor and idle air control sensor replaced and now runs.

I have several issues, one old,...where three years ago I noticed for some reason an indication of moisture in the oil, at the oil fill cap, like now that back then the engine had sat around not used for a long time, months, the milky substance but clear dipstick oil,...so like last time, I put bars stop leak in the coolant system and maybe it is now plugged off like last time, IF that was what it needed or condensation didn't just happen to a car sitting around for months, I mean, there is no fog out the tailpipe, and it don't appear worth worrying about, I hope. I have not installed the new header by magnaflow yet.

Anyway, I keep on getting a IDLE Air control code when my car suddenly, after getting warm, at a stop light for instance the engine idles down, the engine wants to stumble and then evens out,...the code says it is that of "idle air control valve cycling faster than expected",...haha, dunno. I mean, it was a hard part to get off, had to use the cross tip style 3/8" attachment cause they made sure you can't get a regular socket on the second inner bolt, for some reason. I mean, maybe the $16.50 new idle air control valve is no good, or too cheap made. The new maf sensor, don't get me started, it was loose in the air box hole needing increased in size with electrical tape, and one of the bolt holes had to be opened up a bit cause with a drill bit pushed sideways more inward, meaning the holes were too far outward by a little bit, a $25 part, off ebay, where thge autozone part would be $110, ....I had no choice in the matter than to order a cheap replacement part.

The whole thing, I don't know why the new idle air control valve code is happening, ....will update if anything bad happens. Hopefully I won't have to remove the head, for leaking head gasket, I mean, I figure it would be best to just replace the head,...that is, if the leakage came from the head gasket area, and not the block...They make a substance called block seal, you drain the coolant and run this stuff with water for a time, ....I'll do that if I have to, I need this car, I can't have it down anymore, my truck is untrustworthy and needs some fuel system diesel fuel parts installed.

I have a tps and a map sensor, and a purge valve I need to put on, I mean, the tps shows working, the map on the car is original and could do with replacement, and the purge valve I will replace too asap. I hope the idle air control valve code doesn't keep happening and I get desparate and install the old IAC valve, but cleaner, that would be stupid in a way. I do have a downstream O2 sensor for $22 I bought, but the code scanner tool shows that both O2 sensors work.

The header, I am afraid to start tearing into the car again until I fix up the aforementioned chevy diesel truck I have with problems, after that, well, I won't be afraid to tear into the kia. I mean, with fresh synthetic oil, and plans for regular oil changes of synthetic oil, I want alot of miles out of that engine.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Anyway, my brand new idle air control valve keeps on throwing that code,..."faster than expected cycling",....that is really angering me, I mean, I have this strange feeling,...mind you, of me, a can of carburetor cleaner to be sure, and the old idle air control valve cleaned even though it looks clean but well used, and reinstalling on the vehicle...if that did away with the code then that would mean its hard to get decent parts for this car that are reliable,.....like the MAF sensor that a cheap replacement never would work right,....or last.

OH, I forgot to mention in the long lsit of parts replaced for reliability,...that I had also replaced the worn out windshield washer pump,....it was a $17 part, very affordable,....off ebay from a company, just in case anyone else has same problem,...the old pump broke its blades internally in winter several years ago,...at least I have windshield washing going on.
 
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