2002 Sportage Cranks but No Start and No Spark

[timmot]

This issue came about suddenly. I was driving and in gear when the engine suddenly died. No warnings, sounds or roughness, just died. It cranks over as normal but will not start up.

My first steps were to check fuel delivery. Fuel pump, lines, filter, relays and fuses test then replaced anyway, all good and have made no change. The only thing not checked was pressure because I don't have the gauge for that.

Next was air and sensors. Replaced the air flow and idle control units, but then read that the engine should start without them even plugged in so I guess that eliminates those but I replaced them anyway.

Then went to spark. Pulled a plug and tested for spark by touching the threads to a ground while connected and cranked the engine... Nothing. Coils were tested and compared to new ones, and they are fine (replaced last year). Plugs replaced with factory NGKs. Wiring replaced. Still nothing. Figured and quite concerned here that maybe it's the computer. So I placed multi-meter to leads from loom that connects to the coils and cranked it. I read voltage switches from 9 to 11 volts on the wires. I am now completely lost on the spark problem because I read that is the timing belt is busted the computer won't send pulses to the coils causing no spark, so if my timing belt is bad, why am I getting readings on the wiring?

So from what has been quite commonly pointed to elsewhere and here is either timing belt (can cause no spark and no start, and no fuel). Or compression (also can cause no start). So compression is easier to test so grabbed a gauge a tried to first plug, cranked it, NOTHING. Not a single budge of the needle. 2nd cylinder, NOTHING. 3rd, NOTHING. 4th NOTHING. Could it be a bad gauge (No freakin' way ) not a chance, tested the gauge and works fine.

So now I am baffled. Did some reading. Found a post that talks for same issue being caused by an oil problem. It says:

http://leaving address out in case rules don't allow/xxxxxxx-1999_kia_sportage_shut_down_highway with solution stating

"the hydraulic tappets have bled down due to lack of oil"... fill with oil and "crank the engine for a few minutes... without the plugs and allow the tappets to pressurize with oil"

What and where are the tappets? And how would that make the engine loose all compression?
I checked oil level and it is in fact pretty low and probably has been for a while. So is this possible?

So now I am down to this weird compression situation and maybe the timing belt which was replaced last year by a reputable mech. Tomorrow I check these out, but I am praying for someone to have a miracle answer to my dilemma that will save the day.

I definitely CANNOT believe that at the exact same time I would lose an electrical system and have engine damage so bad as to lose complete compression in the motor.

Thank you,
Tim

[ron1004]

The most common cause of sudden death is the timing belt breaking - on this engine you're lucky that it's a non-interference, so just install a new belt.

With the TB gone the camshafts don't rotate and hence no spark.

There's no tappets on these engines, only hydraulic valve lifters.

[Baratacus]

no spark would indicate the cam sensor isn't giving a signal to ecu. No compression would indicate that the cams are not engaged with the crank.

If it were your valve lifters not engaging, you would have spark. I second the motion that it's your timing belt.

[timmot]

Baratacus:

... No compression would indicate that the cams are not engaged with the crank.

If it were your valve lifters not engaging, you would have spark. I second the motion that it's your timing belt.

Is this stated correctly? It seems contradictory. I'm sure it's just a typo but want to be sure I am not misunderstanding you.

I am going after the timing now. Update to follow.

Thanks

[ron1004]

If your valve lifters were not operational but the cams still turning then you'll still have spark.

Have someone crank the engine while you look through the oil filler to see if the cams are rotating.

Still put my money on the likelihood of this being the TB.

[Baratacus]

what ron said. I was trying to adress two different areas with those two comments.

The first being your lack of compression and spark: If the Timing belt was broken the cams would not turn and the plugs would not fire and the valves would not operate thus no compression.

The second was adressing the theory that your lifters were the problem and not the timing belt: If the Timing belt was functioning and the cams were turning you would still have spark regardless of your lifters not working.

Sometimes I get long winded and it all kinda blurrs together.... :P

Hey Ron,
Can you see the cam through the oil filler spout? I had my cam covers off a couple weeks ago and I can't remember for the life of me if they had a diverter plate blocking the view of the cam or not.

[andychildress]

Sounds like we are having the same problem. My fuel pump works, my engine oil is low. My timing belt and timing gear was changed 20,000 ago so that should not be it. My crankshaft position sensor is less than 3 months old. Will try you oil level trick before I tow it to Kia.

[ron1004]

Originally Posted by andychildress

Sounds like we are having the same problem. My fuel pump works, my engine oil is low. My timing belt and timing gear was changed 20,000 ago so that should not be it. My crankshaft position sensor is less than 3 months old. Will try you oil level trick before I tow it to Kia.

What "oil level trick" are you referring to?

Do you have spark?

[timmot]

Well one thing is for sure. I have gone from complete noob to quite sufficient novice as a 1st gen Sportage tech. Outside of cam position sensor, exhaust, and head replacement, I have learned how to remove, test, replace and install (properly mind you) nearly everything in this vehicle.

I'm just feeling proud of myself right now. So please excuse my blabbing. I really am a humble guy.

A couple things:
The timing belt was completely snapped apart in one spot... Right at the water pump. The pump pulley was locked up so the belt went. One thing I can say and learned from that. When it comes to work like this, unless the mech gives you a warranty, be there when they install the pump and belt, because there's a good chance they won't do what you paid for. My mech is very reputable, experienced, knowledgeable, but doesn't like Kia. So when he (supposedly) replaced the timing belt last year. He either didn't change anything at all, or at the absolute very least did not replace the pump. Later I will post a pic of it at you'll see why I know this.

THIS ENGINE IS NON-INTERFERENCE 100%. Sorry Ron and Baratacus, you guys are great and have been spot on in all the posts I have read, but I am sure you can understand that when there is conflicting info flying around, one should verify everything. The reason I was so unsettled about this info is that even the service manual pages on kiatechinfo.com also say that it is interference... Autozone and Napa also say the same. But, if you call Kia, look at the engine yourself, or speak to those that REALLY know (ron1004, Baratacus, etc) you will get the real knowledge that it is non-interference.

Again I state... The 1998-2002 2.0L DOHC 16V 4 cylinder motor is a NON-INTERFERENCE motor.

And finally.... If you are a Napa fan and you have this car, please verify all fluid quantities and types, as well as parts with what Kia says. 4 out of 5 items checked on with Napa were the wrong item. Especially trans items and whether to use gasket, sealant or some combo of each.

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Progress:

The intake cam pulley I marking on my motor is stamped partly between two teeth (I'll post a pic tomorrow of this) so I had to flip a coin for which position to go with. You do have to hold the pulleys in place manually while fitting the belt, which is a pain in the a** if by yourself. Good thing I had help.

Everything went well with that. It really is simple when you have another pair of hands. The only issue now is that I didn't verify everything by starting with the belt cover off like recommended by another user here. Everything looked good checking alignment by hand, but I still have the same problem. No spark and no start.

I had to walk away at that point. So I have not rechecked compression or anything else. I will be pulling the valve cover to see if everything is moving as it should then if all is well I guess I'll be checking the cam position sensor and belt placement again.

I would like to say to Baratacus... This right here that you just read, now that is long winded. It's late and my brain is unloading on to this posting.

I would love to hear what you guys have to say about all this. I've got tough skin so if I am wrong or missing something please be forward about what it is.

[jamesgood72]

Glad your getting somewhere on this, timmot. I just replaced the waterpump on mine. A nice easy job once you have the TB covers off. These guys on here have been really helpful to me as well.

-James.