Start-up problem.

[MrVette]

I spent most of this weekend working on my 99 2 door automatic Sportage trying to replace the water pump and timing belt. I had posted in another section on problems getting the belt on with all 3 timing marks. That was what took most of the weekend, but i finally got it all on right.
After getting it all back together i started it up...it started real quick and easy with just a quick turn of the key from standing outside...then topped off the radiator and let run until thermostat opened to insure fill. I replaced the radiator cap and turned it off. I spent about 4-5minutes putting away tools and stuff then tried to restart. After 3 or 4 tries of turning it over for 10-15 seconds i climbed inside and depressed the gas pedal slightly while starting. After about 8-10 seconds it will start with rough idle for a few seconds. After bumping up the revs to 1500 or so the idle goes back to normal. After driving for several blocks the idle gets rough and almost dies when stopping. Turning on the AC makes that worse. Every time i have tried to start it again it almost doesn't. It has not set any codes or turned on the check engine light.
Any ideas what this problem is.
I would guess that all the timing belt issues are fixed right since the first start was so easy and quick but????
PLEASE Help. I need this running right by tomorrow since it looks like my 84 Vette will be sold when the banks open...Guy came by today but i don't take checks. This Sportage was meant to be my daily driver and my Fiero is on its last legs with leaking heater-core and many other issues not worth fixing.

[MrVette]

Ok, While playing with it all afternoon i found one slight vacuum leak at the connection for the MAF flex pipe to Aluminum intake pipe. After only 54000 miles it looks like the rubber pipe is deforming slightly. A couple of wraps of foam tape and a new worm-gear clamp fixed that with no change in starting problem or idle. I did accidentally make a strange discovery. This thing will actually start with the MAF unplugged??? What is that about?
I connected it while running and about 3-4 seconds later the idle stumbled more then went up about 50rpm. I guess that this is the limp home mode of the ECM switching to closed loop. When i attached the auto xray all i found was a code from the MAF (duh) NOTHING else?
Do you really have to remove the aluminum pipe to get at the coil-packs and plugs? Isn't there some other way? About how much would it cost for new coils, wires, and plugs? What are the best choices for plugs on a stock engine that i just want a smooth reliable ride out of? I usually use Bosch platinums on every-thing.
Please chime in with any ideas. I know nothing about these little engines.

[colb]

Lifted from Fengshuie's previous post some good advice
I would also double check your timing is still spot on could the belt have jumped a tooth when you strated it the second time?
Yes you have to dismantle the air intake to get at the plugs always use NGK set at .30thou leave the Bosh plugs well alone Sportage don't like them.

Search the threads for other posts re the gasket leak your not alone.

"If you just bought a sportage or just wanting to do a tune up on your current one, here are some things I recommend doing.

Replace the coils, plug wires, spark plug using the Ngk gapped at .30 AND while your their, replace valve cover gasket. I replaced the coils in mine about 5k miles ago, and i noticed oil on the back spark plug but didnt think nothing of it, well a week ago the engine started running rough, which was from leaking valve cover gasket cover the plug in oil. (and use anti seize on your new plugs, and dielectric grease on the plug wire connectors, etc)

Check all your hoses, a simple cracked hose could cause an engine code to pop up like mine, get new hoses if needed and look on your intake manifold for the little rubber caps, replace if needed. Replace air filter, pcv valve and fuel filter. and if you can, replace fuel pump just to be safe, check your timing belt too, replace if needed.

Replace terminal connectors and check the grounds on the negative wire. My sportage would not start, turned over, but no start, and fuel pump was not working, replaced the connectors and boom it started up. Speaking of grounds, check the ground by the fuel pump on the back floor board. You will be surprise how many issues can result from bad connections. Un plug, and replug any and all connectors just to clean them.

Check your fans. My sportage air conditioning did not blow very cold while sitting still and if you sat for awhile it would start to overheat. What I did was replaced the ac fan (front pusher fan) with a bigger one from advance auto. It fit a little tight, but the fan itself was strong enough to stop the overheating and improved the ac. Now, the one thing that helped my sportage the most was getting rid of that damn clutch fan. I always wondered why this sportage was so doggy and un-responsive, it was all in the clutch fan. By themselves working properly rob a lot of power from these cars, but a bad one will hurt it more. I converted it over to electric fan and you know it makes a difference when my girlfriend is impressed. Theirs a lot more responsivness, more peppy, better gas mileage, and my favorite one (since living in savannah ga gets very hot at times) is that the ac is soo much better. Its actually too much at times, and it is ice cold as soon you start it. I recommend this conversion to anyone with a 1st gen sportage.

I always have to tell myself this whenever im faced with a car related situation is that its not always the obvious. Replacing the coils in mine fixed the situation temporaily, but months down the road it acted up again. All from a leaking valve cover gasket putting oil on the plugs. Another thing, is that if your car is overheating, fix it as soon as possible because that can cause issues in the future like cracking hoses, bad gaskets, etc.
Just maintain your sportage properly (keep records of everything as well) and keep it simple and you will enjoy many miles from these lil suv's."

[MrVette]

Well, I took it for a cruise today since i had to. I hooked it up to the Auto-Xray for real time monitoring of sensors.
I noticed that the O2 sensors don't read the same. The #1 sensor would constantly bounce all over in it's readings every half second or so. It has been my experience on other cars that this is actually normal. Is it normal on this engine?
The #2 sensor seemed to stay pretty constant in reading between 740 and 790mv some times staying on one figure for up to 10 seconds or so during idle, It usually changed with gas pedal changes. Is this normal? I have never seen a car with 2 sensors in line before, just left and right bank types.
I ordered 2 of the wires, the valve cover and intake gaskets. They had a box with 2 wires in it and a set of NGK plugs. Why don't they sell the wires in true sets of 4?
I really didn't notice anything else out of line. So i am hopeful that the new plugs will correct the starting and idle problems. Ithink that the old timing belt was streched since this car drives much better than before under loads. It even shifts much better and at more reasonable rpms.
I intend to clean the IAC but have not found a post describing a preferred method. Any suggestions? Also still looking for info on throttle body cleaning. Can it be cleaned with out a new gasket? I could not find a number to order one today.
Funny thing is that the fuel filter is the same as on my fieros and vettes...I buy those by 24 case. The air filter looks almost brand new. I can't tell if the oil i see around the oil pan is from there or from leak down out of valve cover. I will clean it real well after doing the valve cover and see later.
How hard is this oil-pan removal? I have run into some that you basically had to pull the engine to get them out. I don't feel like getting that involved.
I like the idea of changing the fan to electric. Just going from a clutch fan to an electric set-up freed 18hp on a trans-am we dyno tested years ago. Any where close to that gain would really change this little car. Is there any place in the block to add another temp sensor? Or is there an available sensor that won't screw-up the ECM? I would rather cut a good shroud to fit with a slim line fan on the engine side since slalom racing has taught me that a close fitting puller fan and shroud gets better air flow at low speeds. I did notice that they left a wide gap between the blade tips and shroud that would leave a huge lack of vacuum to flow right over the radiator. Are there any issues with the plastic tank radiator like on the vettes? Any affordable options?
Also wondering if a different/new catalytic converter is available that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? Looked on KIA parts site and $640 is about 6times what i would expect. I don't know the history of this Sportage and would rather KNOW i have good exhaust flow.
Thanks for the advice colb.

BTW. I no longer have the 84 vette...after paying my lawyer i got to keep a whole $200. The trip to the parts store left me with $60...so i am looking for cheep options on this Sportage.

[bubbashrimp]

The two coils snap right on top of two of the spark plugs and then one wire runs from each coil to a second spark plug, therefore you only need two sparkplug wires.

I took my IAC off of the car and sprayed the two openings real good with CRC MAF spray and then sprayed the male and female connectors with electric contact cleaner.


Sorry, I can't answer your other questions.

[MrVette]

Well after going through EVERY-THING again (several times actually), i finally wised-up and did a compression test. #1= 115, #2= 85, #3=90 & #4=110... i guess that i am doing the head gasket if i like it or not.
BUBBA, i think that given the similarities in what you are saying on yours you should at least do the compression test also. I hope my guess there is wrong.
After thinking about it a while i did have some-thing like a backfire right before it started running poor. I realized shortly there after that i could smell anti-freeze and realized that it was overheating despite not showing on the temp gauge. When i was replacing the water pump i noticed that the spade connector on the lower (smaller) temp sensor in the thermostat housing was so loose that it fell off while trying to get the connector off. Does any-one know if that is the sensor for the gauge or the ECM?
I also notice that the timing belt was very loose and replaced it...I hope that my backfire wasn't the belt slipping and the pistons contacting the valves??? I will know for sure this week-end. And i am going to do the clay clearance check while setting up, so i will answer the on-going question on interference engine or not. I have always done this measure on any engine i build so that i know cam lift clearances...not really an issue on this engine but...
Will post findings over the week-end.
Any-one know of an indistructable head gasket for this thing? I would love a copper one. Would that hold on aluminum to AL...I know that you can't use them on iron to AL due to galvonic problems.

[MrVette]

After a major undertaking i got the head off. No sign on the gasket of a failure??? Any-one who has done the head gasket before PLEASE tell me how your's looked once off.

Since i can't get the head to a machine shop untill Monday i played with it a bit. Tried to do a clearance check but the baked on particles on the exhaust valves just screwed up the clay, even oiled. It looks like almost a .150 inch clearance in the piston valve reliefs, so i can verify that there is no way to contact the valves to the pistons...this was with-out the gasket width as well.
Anybody know of any-thing else i should be looking at? I looked as well as i could around the valve seats and between for any cracks but saw nothing. There are a couple of pits in the head near a couple of steam ports... nothing out of line with an aluminum head on a steele block though. The pits are very small and should plane out on a very light pass. i realy thought these had an AL block...WRONG!

Is there a way to set all the valves closed to plane the head with-out a complete tear down? I guess i will know by Monday. I just want to get it back together ASAP. Gasket set won't even be here till Monday though, so there isn't much to do but stare at it Sunday.

There is something weird set in the block almost dead-center along the intake side in one of the passages...What is that? Looks like a check-ball or some-thing???

[bubbashrimp]

Congrats on pulling the head off MrVet. Too bad something didn't jump out at you when you did it. I hate it when something obvious doesn't pop up after going to all the work of tearing it apart.

[MrVette]

bubbashrimp Congrats on pulling the head off MrVet. Too bad something didn't jump out at you when you did it. I hate it when something obvious doesn't pop up after going to all the work of tearing it apart.

Well i did notice water droplets on several head bolts and a little water in the oil. The compression test indicates head gasket...I just don't see a clear failure like i have on some other engines??? I don't know??? That is why i started looking closer at the head...but i have missed cracks quite a few times...that is why you need to trust a good machine shop. I hope it is not cracked because i can't afford that right now.

[bubbashrimp]

I hear you MrVette. Bad enough you got to spend a bunch of time working on the car instead of doing something that would have been a little more fun, but then if you expected to pay 40 bucks or so for a head gasket and it turns into a 2 or 3 hundred dollar head job or [shudder] a cracked block, well that's no good at all. I think in my 50 some years of owning and working on cars I have experienced all three, blown head gasket, cracked head and cracked block.

I wish you luck my friend.