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No Start Flames From Throttle Body

8K views 44 replies 7 participants last post by  DavesSpectra 
#1 ·
so the problems that led up to this is that wife was driving on HWY approx 60 MPH car dies on her wont start back up. After digging into it the timeing belt hit the (crankshift bolt was barely screwed in...) time belt cover and caused it to jump numerous teeth on the cams and cut the alternator belt. Well i just finished setting everything up chaning belts water pump tensioners etc. the Intake side was aligned with the I and noon and Exhaust with E at noon crankshaft at noon. went to restart same issue as before no start sounds like getting no spark at all with smoke coming out the intake smelling like gas and is whire. tested the 1st cyclinder spark plug and it is get spark for sure. took of the intake up to the throttle body to see if smoke is coming from there still turned over and flames shot out.... so i am currently lost as far as where to go from here. im going to recheck to timing again but i am almost positive it is spot on is there anything i should of checked when it originally broke or replaced? or what could cause this issue?
 
#40 ·
You know who really loses out here, it's the guys that are looking for help. Myself, aquanaught, liftyourkia, shapeshade, gottacruise, and others that regularly post very useful real world information here and this kind of "oops" stuff happens over and over.

I don't get it, you want help and you get it, quality help that people all over the world pay good money for, literally hundreds of dollars, and you do nothing with it but keep guessing at your own suspicions.

Laffytaffy, I want you to look at this...



This was the very first reply to this thread, go look on page one.
 
#8 ·
If u think everything is sound then button her back up clear the ecu memory and make certain every sensor is connected and try again. At least u might get a code to help with what direction head. Might wanna change the oil if its super gassy =) oh and coil 2 with lead to 3 and coil 4 with lead to 1.
 
#9 ·
update i ended up doing a compression test and had 0 at all the cyclinders is this possible? even when i put my finger over the 1st cyclinder i could fell air being pushed out of the plug.... the video shows what it sounds like when starting the sound doesnt change with plugs hook up at all either....
 
#11 ·
If the timing is off, then yes - the chamber cannot hold compression if (1) or both of the valves are open @ TDC..

re: IAC valve, that's normal, buzzing engine off, key on.

re: timing (I) and (E) ..



-This- is how the Cam Lobes should look when (I) and (E) are indexed correctly at cylinder #1 (the closest cylinder to front of motor) TDC / Cam lobes should be pointing outward @ 9 & 3 o'clock respectively,

-and- cylinder #1 should be at TDC, verified by the index mark on the Crank Gear matching the mating mark on the motor, and/or the TDC mark on the Harmonic Balancer matching the Timing marks on the lower TB cover..

* Above pic looks good, although there is another pic looks like the (E) cam lobe is pointing inward / @ 9 o'clock, which is why I am mentioning this to you..


See post #26 from Ace1564 for link:
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http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1994-2002-sportage/32811-kia-online-manual-free-3.html

Use WinRAR or compatible RAR-extractor to view/extract files,

Look for:
----
File: Group 10-4.pdf,

Page: 15 Starts the Timing belt diagram and procedure,
 
#16 ·
from diggin into it, it looks like the crank shaft bolt came loose i was able to pull of with just fingers this caused the timeing belt to come off the teeth some and hit the timeing belt cover which ripped apart and ended up hitting the alternator belt im pretty confident that was the initial cause im in the process of taking the head off to check all the valves and see if bent/broken
 
#18 ·
from diggin into it, it looks like the crank shaft bolt came loose i was able to pull of with just fingers this caused the timeing belt to come off the teeth some and hit the timeing belt cover which ripped apart and ended up hitting the alternator belt im pretty confident that was the initial cause im in the process of taking the head off to check all the valves and see if bent/broken
Then, if you haven't already, as part of the teardown, you need to remove the Harmonic Balancer, and the Crank Gear, and physically verify condition of the Crankshaft Snout, Woodruff Key, and interior of the Crank Gear ..

*If you have done this already, verifying valve condition would be a logical next step.

--
re: Flooding - provided the motor was not submerged past the valve cover, and did not incur water intrusion / sit for a long period of time before rehab, it should be ok, but of course an oil and filter change should be on the priority list.

re: Front Differential / Rear Axle: if submerged, a fluid change in all lower cases (Transmission, Front Diff, Transfer Case, Rear Axle) would be highly recommended before extended road use.
 
#17 · (Edited)
If you did not remove the intake and exhaust pulleys and the "I" and the "E" line up with the marks (at 12:00)... Then I would be looking at the crank pulley, crank shaft, and woodruff key... If the engine WAS in time you would not have flames coming out of the throttle body as the correct timing would not allow it to happen.

Zero compression is also an indicator that either the valves DID get damaged or the timing is way off... I know that the engine is supposed to be a non-interference engine BUT I have also seen posts that have said the valves in some early Sportages have been damaged.

Have you tore down the head (removed the intake and exhaust cams)? It looks awfully clean inside the engine for an early Sportage...

And ...Oh yes the IAC buzzing with the ignition on is NORMAL...
Dave
 
#22 ·
Greetings,

re: flooding, I must have been treading water when I replied.. :D

Congrats & Kudos for your excellent diagnostics in locating the issue, hoping the repair goes fast and easy for you.

Regards,
GottaDoSomeMajorYardWorkB4Cruising..
 
#23 ·
well back to square 1. picked up the head a couple days ago and they stated they were wrond no bent valves everything checks out ok.... so far i have checked the block for damage and warping the top of the pistons were cleaned no damage on them. Timing reset multiple times head checked out all good im about to do another compression check again to see what happens. Does anyone know if the crankshaft position sensor or possible a weak starter could cause no compression and would either of those possible fail when timing jumps...
 
#24 ·
Does anyone know if the crankshaft position sensor or possible a weak starter could cause no compression and would either of those possible fail when timing jumps...
CKP would not affect compression, a weak starter could initially show low compression, but the rule of thumb is to let the motor turn over 4 times to get good compression readings, a weak battery/starter may take a couple more turns but you will end up with a true compression reading. Neither would fail because of jumped time.
 
#25 ·
It was suggested before that you remove the crank shaft gear and inspect to see if the wouldruff key spun out and no longer holds the crank gear in correct time. I didn't see that you confirmed it but it is a common problem on this engine. I'm willing to bet if it did slide so far forward to cut the alt belt that the key either fell out or got chewed up.
 
#26 ·
I agree with DeeRock....
The crankshaft end may be damaged and the woodruff key may be sloppy in the worn cur notch...This has happened more than once on Sportages and you can't tell "if" it's worn until you remove the crank gear to get to the woodruff key and notch... The cams and he crank pulleys will line up BUT the mechanical timing WILL be wrong...
Dave
 
#27 · (Edited)
I must of missed that comment how would I check the key your talking about? Pulling the crank gears off ? Sorry for lack of knowledge are part names lol also if i verifyed the piston was at TDC visually and with sticking something in the 1st cyclider spark plug hole ant the crankshaft gear was at TDC wouldnt that eliminate the woodruff key being stripped or in wrong postion?
 
#28 ·
I must of missed that comment how would I check the key your talking about? Pulling the crank gears off ? Sorry for lack of knowledge are part names lol
Yes, remove the crank gear and make sure the slot that is cut in to the gear and the end of the crank shaft is true and square, the key should be present and should be flat where it sits in the crank shaft and rounded/ramped where it sits in the crank gear.

also if i verifyed the piston was at TDC visually and with sticking something in the 1st cyclider spark plug hole ant the crankshaft gear was at TDC wouldnt that eliminate the woodruff key being stripped or in wrong postion?
Yes this would be a good test.
 
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