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1998 kia sportage hardy no power when warm up.

29K views 106 replies 9 participants last post by  shapeshade 
#1 ·
i have a 98 kia sportage and we do post gazette papers which takes around 3 to 4hours to do, It runs good when cold but close to the end when we get done it starts to have no power like it hardy goes up hills unless floored and even than it ony goes up 20 to 25mph.

Pretty much we tried a new air idle control which is a known problem with these trucks it seems, That fixed the bogging tho, we also put new plugs in. new pcv valve which the old one kept getting clogged, All those did help tho.

But we started to have problems with the power problem when its warm up. like when its in the low 70s and 60s at night the truck runs perfect.

But if it warms up higher than that it will start to loose alot of power.

So what can be the issue? Also the check engine light is always on sense we got the truck like 3 years ago. When i reset it by unhooking the battery it will stay off for like 25 to 50miles than it will come back on.. so something is wrong but i cant find out what it is.

Now it does need a valve cover gasket cause it did have oil in the back spark plug hole which i sucked out couple months ago. and it has some on the side of the cover. That wouldn't cause this problem right? cause it runs fine when its cold out.

also I was thinking of the thermalstat would that cause this problem?

One thing i could say tho this truck is reliable cause it just keeps on going no matter what is wrong with it, it always makes it threw the day and back home. which turns me into a believer in kias.

thanks.
 
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#2 ·
Need to find out what Codes are that are causing the CEL after 50 miles. Several auto supply stores will check codes for free.
Need to diagnose correctly. Not poke and hope!
UPYOURKIA
 
#3 ·
Provided the back pressure test verified the CATs as OK (taken at front O2 bung,<3psi @2500rpm)

time to connect a LIVE DATA SCANNER.

COLD engine, (KOEO)
AIT (air temp)and ECT(coolant temp) must be with in 2% of ambient temperature, verified with IR gun.
TPS, 0% at stop and rise smooth and steady as throttle is advanced
MAF, 0% with no air flow
Battery, 12.6vdc, fully charged.

Start engine.
ECT, must start to rise and attain and hold 180* at idle and 2000rpm
CL (ECU) must maintain at idle and 2000rpm
MAF, small reading at idle and rise steadily as throttle advances.
O2, (B1S1, precat), must start actively switching with no lean/rich bias...
LTFT, (long term fuel trim), close to 0%, +/-2 is allowable, if more, time to investigate fuel delivery/illegal air
Vacuum, at unregulated manifold port, 19-21”hg..with a dead steady needle, investigate jitter or bounce.

... Philip
 
#4 ·
sorry it took long to reply back, But we finally test it again.

And here the codes it bring back p0171 and p0440 the guy at advance said the p0171 will cause it to have no power up hills and stuff, which mean its running to lean which is either one of the o2 sensors on the exhaust?? He also said it could be a clogged cat. Even tho the whole exhaust system is ony 3 years old it has a cat back exhaust system duel.


Than the p0440 machine says evap system.


Will the p0171 cause the no power problem??


Thanks:)
 
#6 ·
Refer to post #3 ...

FWIW, I would start by checking the MAF, it registers and reports air flow to the ECU... Dirty or damaged, the ECU will see a reduce flow and so will lean out the AFR...
The reason it runs OK when cold, the ECU feeds a rich mix when the engine is cold...

.... Philip
 
#7 ·
Were can i get it tested for free that uses a LIVE DATA SCANNER?

Also i forgot to mention it always runs with lack of power even when cold now, Mosty going up hills pretty much you have to push the pedal down to the floor. i even tried going up hills in reverse still the same lack of power.


Yea im going to clean the maf and see what that does. cause it used to spit alot of oil threw the intake because of a bad pcv valve and i always had to clean it out and the idle control, So maybe the maf got hit with the oil.
 
#8 ·
Were can i get it tested for free that uses a LIVE DATA SCANNER?
Doubt you can, but if you invest just a portion of what you are spending now!... (Probably $100:00 at dealer)

If you have an Android device, Use:"Torque Plus" app ($5:00) and an OBDII dongle (wifi/BT) $+/-12:00....

Short of that is just guess work which cost $$$ and time.

..... Philip
 
#10 · (Edited)
i cleaned the maf air flow sensor so far no difference, I also tried it with out it and the idle will rev up and down So i guess its working? No change in power.

Than i disconnected the maf sensor on the throttle body made no difference but the truck did stall out once idling under a moment.


I took it for a ride again sense my parents mostly ony drive it for papers, And pretty much the rpms will max out around 3k and goes up very slow but seems like it never hits 4k.

Than when i let off the gas and punch it again the rpms will shoot up way up to 5 to 6k and has power for like 2 secs, Than it will drop down fast and maintain a 3k rpms and about 25mph.. Pretty much seems like its in 2nd gear or 3rd gear always, the d-drive light on the dash is also out when in drive im not sure if its burnt out or what?

Pretty much at the moment i cant get a live test on it because the dealers pretty much want 80 to 100$ or more for the test... And I had my 84 bronco 2 tested at a ford place once and other places which cost alot of money.. Cause it would stall out and wont keep a idle, And the machine couldn't give a straight answer what was wrong with it.

So took it home than i found out it was a bad egr valve by some people that told me about it.. So i blocked that off and never had a problem again. I know this is not the case with the kia but just wanted to say sometimes the tests don't even know whats going on and cost alot of money.. Not saying they all wrong tho, just my experience with the places around me.

Pretty much just trying the small things first, Than if it comes down to it i will buy that OBDII dongle and software sense they are pretty cheap.

Later today im going to try to take a o2 sensor out of the front cat and see if it gains any power doing that. Cause i just found out when the shop put the new exhaust on they didn't touch the cat that was on it in front...

Cause when we got it, it didn't have no exhaust at all just the manifold and front cat. So the front one might be as old as the truck. Than after that will see if i can test the fuel pressure.

I have couple another question, Are these kias picky about brands of spark plugs? Cause we replace the ones in it with autolights, And a week or 2 after that this problem seem like it came up.

Searching around i hear kias likes ngks? Before replacing the plugs the truck ony had a bogging and stalling sometimes problem, But always had power on demand.

I know my 05 mustang v6 never like autolights when i tried them, It would miss fire like crazy till i put boschs in it than it was fine.


thanks:)

I
 
#11 ·
...

I took it for a ride again sense my parents mostly ony drive it for papers, And pretty much the rpms will max out around 3k and goes up very slow but seems like it never hits 4k.

Than when i let off the gas and punch it again the rpms will shoot up way up to 5 to 6k and has power for like 2 secs, Than it will drop down fast and maintain a 3k rpms and about 25mph..

Pretty much just trying the small things first, Than if it comes down to it i will buy that OBDII dongle and software sense they are pretty cheap.

...

Later today im going to try to take a o2 sensor out of the front cat and see if it gains any power doing that. Cause i just found out when the shop put the new exhaust on they didn't touch the cat that was on it in front...

...

I have couple another question, Are these kias picky about brands of spark plugs? Cause we replace the ones in it with autolights, And a week or 2 after that this problem seem like it came up.

Searching around i hear kias likes ngks? Before replacing the plugs the truck ony had a bogging and stalling sometimes problem, But always had power on demand.

...

I
If you can, you really should pickup a low cost OBDII adapter and Scanner application - this will show the values of the various sensors on the motor, e.g. what the ECM is seeing ..

The ECM uses input from the Throttle Position Sensor, the MAF sensor, the Engine Coolant Temp sensor, the Air Intake Temp sensor, the Crank Sensor, the Cam Sensor, the Primary and Secondary O2 sensors (B1S1 / B1S2) and the Knock Sensor to adjust timing / spark / fuel delivery.

* The knock sensor is used by the ECM to advance/retard timing based on values returned to the ECM ..

Being able to sensor values / the Short Term & Long Term fuel trim values calculated is extremely helpful in diagnosing the Sporty..

...

The RPM behavior you describe: +1 for removing the upper O2 sensor from the Exhaust manifold and checking for blockage in Exhaust system ..

* Incorrect Static Timing may also cause this ..

* Ignition issue may also cause this (bad wire / resistor, oil in plug well #4 (closest to firewall), bad Coil Pack ..

...

re: Bosch vs. Autolite vs. NGK vs. ???

The seat taper of the NGK plugs is perfect for the 1G Sporty 2.0L motor, I've tried other plugs (Bosch) and had to re-check and re-torque after 15,000 - 20,000 miles .. * Plugs worked fine, but again the seat taper was not suited for the Sporty.

In short, I recommend the NGK plugs.


Regards,
GottaCruise
 
#12 ·
k i bought new plugs which are ngks and it seems like the idle is better but still the same power loss...

I still yet to pull the o2 sensor but will later today, Tho hopefully it comes off and not welded on from the heat.

Also i notice the engine bay and rad does get pretty hot when ony running for like 5 to 10mins, Even tho the temp is normal. I wonder if the thermal stat is working as it should?

But anyways im going to give in and order the OBDII adapter and Scanner application, Will this one work? Mini ELM327 Bluetooth OBD2 OBD II Auto Car Diagnostic Scanner Tool for Android | eBay

I also herd i might need a adapter for it? or will that work with out one?

Hopefully when i get that it will show what is going on, Cause at the moment im clueless. The truck will keep on going and going which runs every day for like 3 to 4hours and never has broke down yet but has these issues like this, Hopefully i don't jinx it... lol
 
#17 ·
well got the code reader in today, and i dont think it really shows me much??

it had that p0171 code so i clear that but keeps coming back, So

I went in the test results to do a test on everything,

and all that shows is tid $05 cid:$16 rich to lean sensor switch time calculated

max 25

current 26

than on top of that it says tid $01 cid:$05 rich to lean sensor threshold voltage constant

what does that mean?

than it says test incomplete or dependent test failed..


so i tried my other cars a 05 mustang v6 and that shows all the tests even down to the cat... So i tried my 97 dodge ram 5.9 that doesin't show all the tests either..

Shouldint everything be showing on all cars?


Im using torque pro.
 
#18 ·
it had that p0171 code so i clear that but keeps coming back, So
OBD-II DTC: P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1) You have illegal air entering the system

I went in the test results to do a test on everything,

and all that shows is tid $05 cid:$16 rich to lean sensor switch time calculated

max 25

current 26
The computer is telling you that it has surpassed its capability to adjust for the illegal air


than on top of that it says tid $01 cid:$05 rich to lean sensor threshold voltage constant

what does that mean?

than it says test incomplete or dependent test failed..

Im using torque pro.
 
#19 ·
Whats the LTFT at? What does the stft do at idle? whats the stft do at 2k rpm. Your going to want to add some widgets to the live data screens. I just replaced a coil pack that was showing signs of arcing, previously it was pointless to go past 5k rpm now it pulls to 6k nicely. If you have any freeze frame data of when it throws the code it might help, if at idle usually vacuum leak.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I don't see anything for ltft and stft?

heres some pics i took, This program really doesn't show alot going on for this kia unlike my 05 mustang which shows tons of info.


I notice the 02 sensors volts will go really low even down to 0.1 volts when revving the engine some is that normal?

Than its also showing another code sometimes p1624 sometimes its there than sometimes its not..

than the fuel bank data is all over the place. goes to 0 sometimes than up to 25%

And for the freeze frame data when i check it , it comes back and says it doesn't have no info for it.


http://i61.tinypic.com/314zdp0.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/2lj6tcm.jpg


http://i58.tinypic.com/2mr8jlg.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/andkki.jpg


http://i60.tinypic.com/2hmd8hg.jpg


http://i60.tinypic.com/35mp9gy.jpg


http://i57.tinypic.com/11j58wy.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/286xqc4.jpg
 
#21 ·
Provided the back pressure test verified the CATs as OK (taken at front O2 bung,<3psi @2500rpm)

time to connect a LIVE DATA SCANNER.

COLD engine, (KOEO)
AIT (air temp)and ECT(coolant temp) must be with in 2% of ambient temperature, verified with IR gun.
TPS, 0% at stop and rise smooth and steady as throttle is advanced
MAF, 0% with no air flow
Battery, 12.6vdc, fully charged.

Start engine.
ECT, must start to rise and attain and hold 180* at idle and 2000rpm
CL (ECU) must maintain at idle and 2000rpm
MAF, small reading at idle and rise steadily as throttle advances.
O2, (B1S1, precat), must start actively switching with no lean/rich bias...
LTFT, (long term fuel trim), close to 0%, +/-2 is allowable, if more, time to investigate fuel delivery/illegal air
Vacuum, at unregulated manifold port, 19-21”hg..with a dead steady needle, investigate jitter or bounce.

.... Philip
 
#22 ·
Hmm so pretty much this tester i bought was useless? the pics i took doesn't show anything wrong?

Like i said in my older posts i cant do a live tester sense it costs to much and most likely will also not find the problem.

Pretty much the truck needs front end work done soon and also tires so i cant spend alot which why i thought this tester would tell me something.

Pretty much we just have to keep driving it like this till something goes completely on it.

It has to be something simple cause i would think something would've died by now or something , Sense this problem been going on for like month too 2 months. Just got me confuse..


Also i do notice one thing when i first start it up, is i smell a very strong fuel smell, Have no leaks tho.
 
#31 ·
Myth-conceptions about the Check Engine Light
Many people are confused about the check engine light and why it comes on. We thought we would address some of these common myths about why your check engine light comes on and clear up some of the fallacies about it.

Myth 1: The trouble codes will tell you what sensor to replace.
This is an expensive frame of mind. The Check Engine Light directs your attention to a problem. A trouble code description then directs you to a circuit or system. It will not tell you what sensor to replace. It is about as vague as stating that a book is in the automotive section of the library. You now know what section to go to, but no clue where to look yet. That is why there are flow charts or trouble code trees and diagrams to guide you through specific tests to determine what is the problem. Often it is a broken wire, loose connector or some other cause, than the sensor itself.

Myth 2:
You can clear the codes by disconnecting the battery.
This is true on pre-96 vehicles and very few, if any, OBD2 vehicles. Some folks will say, "I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes and the light went out, so it cleared the codes". No, it didn't. It may have reset the ECM and the light is no longer present, but the code is still there and if the problem has not been repaired, the light will come back on. The next time you have a problem, now you or the mechanic who is working on the vehicle are going to have to contend with that code as well as any other that is present.

Note: There are the rare cases where the manufacturer has made provisions for clearing the codes by disconnecting the battery or removing the ECM fuse. In most cases of post 96 vehicles, that is not the case, as most manufacturers have made the ECU/ECM/PCM retain the information, even in the event of battery voltage loss. In the largest percentage of the vehicles, unless specifically stated by the manufacturer, an OBD2 scantool is required to clear or reset the codes.

Myth 3:
When the check engine light comes on, it always means you have to replace something.
One of the first things that needs to be done when diagnosing the check engine light is to clear the trouble codes, road test the vehicle and then recheck the trouble codes. If the codes come back, then start with the lowest number code and go through the flow charts and diagrams.

And the last Myth:
The Check engine light means an O2 sensor problem.
Anyone who has taken this to be true and has spent quite a bit of money on replacing oxygen sensors knows this is not true. First, you will not know, nor will anyone else, what the problem is until you have the trouble codes. Even if it is an oxygen sensor code, a lot of times there are other causes for the code to come about.
Vacuum leaks, poor fuel quality, low or high fuel pressure, a compression problem or a plugged catalytic converter could cause it. If the oxygen sensor is bad, then replacing the sensor still does not finish the repair. If an oxygen sensor failed, then there is a problem with the emissions of the engine. Usually when an oxygen sensor fails, it is because it has become contaminated. Contamination caused by an engine that is not running properly. So you will still need to determine where the originating problem came from. More often than not, there will be no trouble codes for that problem and it will not be evident without some specific tests.

We hope that this will clear up some "myth-conceptions" of the check engine light, because we have seen many people all over who have been telling folks that it is on because of this or that. We've tried to locate where it is that they buy their crystal ball, but alas, we have yet to find a reliable crystal ball. Until then, we rely on good old common sense, a good scan tool and a quality information system, like these.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Yep that's what im using Torque Pro .

so pretty much post back with the sensors results in those displays? I know how to get those displays setup, It just there's alot of sensors that don't detect, like fuel pressure cat and etc, My mustang shows all that. It does show all the ones in your screens tho so will post thoes.

Cant do much right now sense i don't have the truck with me now, But will tomorrow.
 
#33 ·
Yep that's what im using.

so pretty much post back with the sensors results in those displays? I know how to get those displays setup, It just there's alot of sensors that don't detect, like fuel pressure cat and etc, My mustang shows all that. It does show all the ones in your screens tho so will post thoes.

Cant do much right now sense i don't have the truck with me now, But will tomorrow.
Before you spend too much time chasing, remember the engine must breath, so confirm the CAT test first.. The symptoms you describe fit the Collapsed honeycomb scenario...

....Philip
 
#34 ·
ok so take out the upper O2 sensor on the exhaust manifold like i was going to do before?

Will do that tomorrow, I just hope its not welded in there from the heat and breaks off.. which why i been holding off on it.

is there a test on torque pro to test the cat? I didn't see any sensors that was active before for it.

I found this video on youtube to find out if a cat is bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEH2LbRS73s skip to 3.00 and he was saying about the volts of the o2 sensors and said its normal for the first one to be moving around, But if the 2nd one is moving around to and not stable at 0.4 or 0.6 half volts that means the cat is bad. Is that true?

Cause both of my volts on torque pro was moving around alot when i last tested, even went down to 0.1 as i shown in the pics.

Hopefully im aloud to post a you tube video sense some sites don't like those.
 
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