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New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues.

18K views 111 replies 10 participants last post by  GottaCruise 
#1 ·
Hello Gents, I was glad to find a solid community still working on and enjoying these little brutes.

Recently, I needed a 4x4 for light trail, beach, camping, and fishing duties, and found a Sportage on craigslist for $1750 that seemed to fit the bill.

First thing I did was put 235/75R15 rubber on the stock rims:



It got us to and from the Texas coast at 19 mpg, but had some issues.

-Surging while trying to accelerate. The worst is accelerating between 30 and 65 mph, either almost no power at 2000 rpm or surging at 3500+ rpm. Once up to 70+ mph it settled at about 3000 rpm and was fine so long as it didn't need to downshift.

-No power. Very slow acceleration, and would lose speed quickly trying to go up any kind of hill when cruising at highway speeds.

-Rough shaking idle. Alternates between shaking like it's going to stall at ~600 rpm, or high idle at ~1400.

-My OBD reader shows:

Current Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no current faults

Pending Fault Log
------------------
P0171: System too Lean (Bank 1)
P0301: Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0303: Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0304: Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected

-Dripping water onto passenger's feet. It also drains onto the ground out of the drain pipe in the firewall as expected, but it seems like a lot more condensation is being drained than any car I've ever had. What comes out smells like plain water, but maybe the previous owner diluted the coolant/water mixture so much I can't smell it. Leaking heater core? No overheating issues during our trip, even in 100* Texas heat.

-The floor and base of the center console got warm enough to notice the heat against my right calf.


So far, I've only had a chance to tear into the intake and ignition, following this guide: 4x4Wire TrailTalk Forums: READ FIRST IF YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS

Pics so far: 1999 Kia Sportage Ignition and Intake - Album on Imgur

What I found was that the spark plug wires, coils, and plugs seemed almost new. The ignition wire harness that feeds the coils was in bad shape, with the connectors broken and mostly destroyed, but still able to hold the connection. No signs of oil leaking from the valve cover.

I replaced PCV, cleaned the throttle body, cleaned the MAF, hosed out the IAC with carb cleaner, cleaned and refinished the metal TB-Air Intake Pipe gasket, then put it all back together.

Good news is that it works exactly as it did before. Bad news is that it works exactly as it did before.

I have an ignition wire harness

What's next?

I'll try to find a vacuum leak by spraying carb cleaner around all the hoses and gaskets, and I'm going to put a bottle of Bar's radiator stop leak in the coolant hose just before the heater core to see if that stops the leak in the passenger footwell.

Other suggestions?

Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
You were doing well until you said, "I'm going to put a bottle of Bar's radiator stop leak in the coolant hose just before the heater core to see if that stops the leak in the passenger foot well." This will only supply you with additional issues...

First move would be to Pressure test the cooling system, then run the vehicle with the A/C off and asses the water situation again..

Time to do a compression test, report all data, dry then wet tests..

OBTW, welcome to the forum, like the front seat accessory!

.. Philip
 
#18 ·
First move would be to Pressure test the cooling system, then run the vehicle with the A/C off and asses the water situation again..

Time to do a compression test, report all data, dry then wet tests..

.. Philip
My post #2 , but figured the OP knew better as he did not respond or action tests..

... Philip

if it were a new to me ride i would be checking the timing belt/ woodruff keyway. Then compression test to see if it was worth throwing money at =)
 
#3 ·
I have a 3.5 V6 2009 sportage that had the same leakage on the pass floor. I found that the drain hose was partly plugged do to bugs,leaves, sticks ect getting in the intake vent at the back of the hood. Mine drains out under the shifter floor board area via a tube that comes out under the car below the shifter area. I had to get a long pipe cleaner(about 2 foot long) to clean it out. now it don't drain on the floor any more. Try that first before taking stuff apart. I hope this saves you some extra work. the cleaner needs to be very flexible as the drain tube curves a few times.
 
#4 ·
Forgot to ask for a vacuum hose diagram. I've found a couple but they're impossible to read or use to locate stuff on the actual engine. Anyone have an exploded diagram that's easy to look at and then compare to the engine in front of you?
 
#6 · (Edited)
I think I know exactly what you're talking about. I remember seeing it, and thinking, "Well that looks weird and useless with just a nipple cap back there". On second thought, maybe it's a good port for blowing in smoke to check for leaks?

I'll definitely check it when I hose down the whole thing with carb cleaner looking for other vacuum leaks.

Also just remembered that the guy I bought it from said he power washed the engine bay to make it look better to sell. That nipple is right on top and maybe got dislodged by the spray?
 
#9 ·
Ok, what did we learn tonight...

It doesn't seem to start shaking until it gets warmed up.

Sprayed all around the top of the engine, intake hose, air box, and around the canister with carb cleaner, and got Zero change or response from the engine.

Screen caps of Torque with the engine idling smoothly. I don't know what to think of most of the numbers, but figured they'd be useful.





The one thing I noticed is when it would surge or shake sitting parked idling, is the throttle % would go up and down without me touching the gas pedal. Does that mean my TPS is bad, or is there a way to clean/fix it?
 
#10 ·
Your Sportage has got no vacuum leaks, because the LTFT1 is negative, at -3.9%, which means that your Sportage has got a rich issue, not a lean one. Do a more extensive test on the O2 1x1 V, because the one in your picture is too much short to evaluate your O2 sensor operation.

I am experiencing the same LTFT1 issue on my Sportage, but mine is worse because my Sportage has got -6.2% LTFT1, and I am also experiencing the same issue with the TPS that you have with your Sportage; I suspect an electrical cause and I am working on it, so let us stay tuned.
 
#20 ·
Another possibility is you have one of the few Sportages remaining with the (original) main Catalytic converter heat shield around it - look under the vehicle, parallel to the front driver's door for the main Cat. converter..

If that heat shield is on there, it will transfer heat to the passenger cabin, especially the driver's floor -> to the back passenger floor area.. That area heats up even w/o the heat shield on a long trip, with the shield on it's almost too hot to touch, especially in the back floor area. :eek:

Issue is that heat shield is just too close to the floorboard - there is not enough air gap between the heat shield and the floor for proper cooling.. If removed, it may (will) offer improvement. The heat shields here were removed, due to this, w/ no ill effects, FYI.

If no heat shield around the main Cat., forget everything you just read.

Then I would pull and physically inspect the ceramic honeycomb chamber in the pre-Cat (below the exhaust manifold), or just do an exhaust back-pressure test to make sure you don't have a restriction in the exhaust system (main cat -> muffler) .
 
#24 · (Edited)
Never mind, it's still B.R.O.K.E.

[http://techiegiveways.com/wp-conten...-farnsworth-wallpaper-1280x1280-1-750x410.jpg]

After seeing the throttle readings being erratic watching the live data feed while driving, and needing this thing next week for dove season, I went for a hopefully easy fix and replaced the TPS.

The surging issues while accelerating are gone! The transmission shifts appropriately now, and she's very well behaved in that previously horrible 30-55 mph range.

Bad news is that she still idles like crap when she warms up, in both Drive and Park. It's rough and feels like it wants to stall with low rpms, but doesn't quite stall. Seems to idle fine when cold and just started up.

Also, what I'm assuming is a leaking heater core. Liquid was leaking out onto the passenger footwell after the AC had been running for a couple hours on a long trip, and what seemed like a lot more than normal amount of liquid was coming out of the drain tube when parked. Didn't seem to be coolant at the time because it felt and smelled like plain water. My suspicion is the previous owner just kept topping it off with water. I added a solid quart of 50/50 coolant, so next time I find some leakage it should be obvious if it's coolant.

When I started working on it after that trip when it was leaking, engine temps were creeping up until I added more coolant.

Odd that it doesn't seem to leak when I turn off the blower, which turns off the AC (because the AC is always on no matter if the light on the AC button is on or not). Is there a valve that gets opened to allow flow to the heater core when the blower is on, or if the the heat or AC is turned on?

So, issues that still need to be fixed:

-Rough low idle.
-Leaking liquid (coolant?) into passenger footwell.
-AC always on, blowing cool air.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Still conflicted on if this is an ignition or fuel problem.

When it shakes really bad trying to idle, we smell gas, making me think there's unburned gas that didn't get ignited.

On the other hand, there's the previous lean code + the fact that if I give it just a tiny bit of throttle to just barely increase the rpms it stops shaking, making me think it isn't getting enough fuel.

Ugh.

A friend suggested the throttle cable might be stretched, because if I just barely touch the gas pedal with my foot, it seems to mostly alleviate the worst of the rough idle.

Anyone have guidance on tightening/shortening the throttle cable?

To temporarily deal with the heater core leak, I'm going to bypass it before this trip. I believe the hoses are 5/8", so I got two 90* elbows and a few inches of 5/8" heater hose to make a loop that won't kink.

I have a replacement for the ignition wiring harness that feeds power to the coils, because it needs to be replaced anyway with those destroyed connectors. We'll see if it helps.

While I'm in there this time I'll pull and check out the plugs.

Have a new fuel filter. Might as well change that, too. Tips for changing it out?

Suggestions on where to start looking for the cause of the AC staying on all the time?
 
#29 ·
The stretched throttle cable is a wrong idea as the butterflies are kept a little open by the adjusting screw and not by the throttle cable.

To unfasten the fuel filter pipes can be easy or can be difficult and you can break the quick connectors. So study throughly how to unfasten those quick connectors
 
#31 ·
Well........S#!%

My initial excitement was misplaced. Went for a longer test drive last night and after it got really warmed up it was still really struggling. A tad better with the new TPS, but still surging, and still lack of power trying to accelerate.

While out it threw a P0302 code.

When I got back I looked at the data stream:



The hell is with the fuel trim?
 
#34 ·
re: surging, as a sanity check I would make sure the PCV valve and hose are working properly, and hook up a mechanical vacuum gauge to the port on the intake manifold, make sure there are no vacuum leaks present.. (common on the 4x4: wheel hub vacuum port hoses -> body, 4x4 vacuum modulator by master cylinder, 4x4 vacuum port on intake manifold, underneath lower rear of manifold by firewall / engine block..)
 
#35 ·
The first time I took the top end off I replaced the PCV valve.

Did the spraying carb cleaner looking for vacuum leaks and didn't find any. Does the new negative fuel trim suggest a vacuum leak?

It came with manual locking hubs. Still worth checking?
 
#40 ·
Right now I've got the top half off to replace the ignition wire harness that attaches to the coils.

I'm going to pull and inspect each plug, maybe even replace them with Bosch +4 platinums, even though the guy I bought it from said the plugs were replaced less than a year ago.

It idled for probably 40 minutes with the hood up while I came out now and then to watch the data, and only intermittently had rough idle.

The fuel trim really has me worried. In the time it was idling, the LTFT went from -17 to -18.5, which means it's running really rich? Would that explain why we've smelled fuel so often?
 
#41 ·
Agreed, you are not burning all fuel commanded by the ECM.

re: plugs - No, I would just replace them with NGK Platinum, the taper seat on the Bosch +2 / +4 platinum plugs is not well suited to the 2.0L motor.. But if you are intent on a multi-electrode plug, the Bosch +2 plugs worked well when I had them in for the 30,000 miles or so, before they loosened up / were replaced here.

--

If it's not vacuum commanding fuel, then it's probably ignition - would check all ignition components for misfire condition next, including that pigtail lead harness, which may well be the likely culprit.

fully inspect the coil pack(s) - you may have toasted one running with a failed ignition lead (aka pigtail harness),

fully inspect wires, if greyed or yellow - replace them,

plugs, NGK 7092 {#BKR6EGP} G-Power Platinum *
or NGK 5555 {#4651, PFR6G11} Laser Platinum

and the resistors in the short HT leads, which should ohm out to 4.9-5.1k on the OEM packs.
 
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